$32,000 gross per year?

PLEASE DONT FLAME ME :( We are a family of 5 living off my DH income of $32,000 gross per year, we pay child support for 2 children monthly ($520) and we have a mortgage and home equity and taxes that we pay each and every month, on top of all our normal utility bills (water/sewer, electric, oil heat, garbadge), food and gas in the car.

I am reading alot of posts with members having $200,000-$300,000 mortgages and in order to be approved for such a mortgage you have to make enough to cover the mortgage and taxes, and it puzzles me how someone with a mortgage that high would be struggling??? We bring home after paying CS approx. $1500 a month and then again we have bills to pay and stuff like that and we wind up with about $100-$150 every 2 weeks to survive off of, sometimes less. (We pay our mortgage bi-weekly and home equity once a month).

Does anyone really have a income of $32,000 gross or less per year and understand where I am coming from?

I just find it hard to understand with people bringing home $5000+ per month and are struggling. JMO!

Nobody better flame you or I will definitely sit on their head, and recite all my germ killing paranoid cleaning hints

ONE BY ONE!!!!!:toothy:

be afraid, be very afraid. I will even explain in glorious gross detail about parasites and dust mites!:toothy:

Ok to answer, there are a lot of different incomes here.

It's less important how much, as it is how does a person manage it.

It can be very discouraging at lower income levels to read about someone with a higher income who struggles with spending

but the main thing is it doesn't matter so much what comes in, it's how you handle it.

And the challenges are much bigger, the lower the income level.

HUGS HONEY, it just means that the rest of us can listen and take our hats off to you who manage on so much less.:angel:

And I admit, it can be discouraging when there isn't money for meat or rice or toilet paper, and someone is talking about paying for the mortgage on top of a huge Visa bill, and talks about the bargain they just got on something you can't even dream about having.

our disposable income varies widely but the techniques of frugal living apply at all levels.

Getting spending under control at a high income (like Oprah's debt couples) is MUCH easier.

There is more room to play with, and they can cut out a few frills and pay for the debts just by cutting back on cable TV and the extra vehicles.

Whereas someone on a lower income can cut all they can, and it might only be a 5 or 10 dollar savings.

it can be very discouraging.

HUGS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

well as i have found out "the more you make, the more you spend" and we found out the hard way. my husband has a good job and makes good money. we also get paid weekly, which is both a blessing and a curse. when we got married we both worked at walmart. we werent struggling, but we also didn't have anything. then he went to work at michelin, we had a kid and i ended up staying at home. we learned we could live off his pay quite well. so we did, too well. so even tho he was bringing home 650-700 a week, i was having to put groceries on the cc because of all the bills we accumulated. so that was a wakeup call for me, since im the one in charge of paying the bills.
with our taxes we paid off all our bills except 1 card (which im working on) his truck (but payments are held out before we even get his check, so i never even see that money) and our furniture
(we buy it at a little store where we live and they let us pay it out whatever we can when we can at no interest) and we use our second card wisely now. since it is a rewards card we use it for gas and we pay it off every month so my hubby can still aquire his points. so its not really how much you make, its how wisely you spend or dont spend it.

Thanks! I just struggle every month and wonder how those with higher incomes seem to be struggling, I wasn't trying to offend anyone, just curious I guess.

Thanks!

(Sorry, just posted at the same time, didn't see the posts above till mine finished posting.)

Oh and yes, there are several ladies here who do manage in that ball park figure.

I'm not going to name names, but refresh this thread a few times, and they may come out of the woodwork and share.

They are people I have the utmost respect for, and really listen to.

LOL which ISN"T TO SAY I don't listen to everyone else, and respect them too!!!!!!!!!!:toothy:

Cost of living is different for people too. They may make more but housing, taxes etc. costs more.

I understand cost of living is different but some have posted how much they bring home and what their bills are and some are left with a substantial amount left over and I mean substantial.

We are a family of 5 and live under $25,000.00 per year and have now for a few years.

However, for me it doesn't matter what income members have or what their mortgage is because it depends where you live, what your tax bracket is, what the cost of living is, etc. etc. Most of us are in the same boat, otherwise we wouldn't be here. We've all had debt and all have struggled or are still struggling.

I don't know everyone's story - it could be they had illness, loss of income, unemployment, etc. etc. It could be their company downsized or sold out to another company. What does matter is that we support each other in whatever income bracket we are in. Thats why we are called the village.

I agree with that, I just want to know if my and my family are the only ones with a low income and wanted to see how other manage. I also, do NOT know other people income or situations here, that's why I asked.

I love the Village and all you wonderful ladies and their stories, I just wanted to see if anyone had a similar story like mine. :hugz:

I hope you don't mind my asking, I don't want to step on any toes. What is it that your husband does for a living? Could he perhaps make a bit more working for another employer? Is moving an option?

There are a number of income levels here. Some have had trouble in the past, and learnt to live frugally and others are in trouble in spite of high incomes and are learning to live frugally, and others are struggling on very low incomes and here to pick up any extra tips and techniques to improve their situation.

So our village has all kinds of people from all kinds of income levels.

It's discouraging on the lower incomes to read about what someone in a higher income is doing with hers, but it's important to keep in mind that the reason they are here, is to share and swap ideas and tips.

Just like not everyone will agree with me about using hot water in the wash --LOL to use a recent example of one of my little obsessions-- not everyone will have the same challenges.

what is important is the understanding that trouble happens at all income levels.

It's about the wants being bigger than the income.

Our village is about turning the tide in society from a spendy culture that encourages debt financed high living

to living within your means, whatever those means consist of.

It's a hard balance because we do have very low almost no income ladies here swapping tips and stories and concerns with ladies who have a lot more income, but as always it's about turning the tide of what is "normal" in our north American spendy culture.

As a side effect it does make living better for less possible but this gap between income levels makes it hard for someone on a high income to understand that NOPE, the budget just won't STRETCH for meat, it's beans or bust.

I've had people in my life, with way more, tell me I should just SPEND it, and "make it up elsewhere' because if I truly "tried it" I'd be able to make it work! If I made it a PRIORITY I would FIND the dollars!!!! (from clothing to organic food, people are big on changing my priorities to spend more in other areas!)

YUP right.

I try NOT to take their heads off because after all they are ignorant of my own challenges and often simply haven't managed on very little.

LOL one friend who did this to me often sang a different tune when her dh lost his job and she had no income after a hefty honkin big income.

NOW she understands when I budget my one trip a payday to see her, and stop in and cherry pick the specials on the way to make it pay.

Before she used to just think I was being silly and paranoid and too fussy about not spending.

Now she has the utmost respect, and even though her dh is now making a good income I haven't heard that "you could if you'd just try" out of her mouth anymore.

We are also a family of 5 (soon to be six) and make under 30k a year. That is with my hubby working a fulltime job, a p/t job (15 hrs a week) and me working roughly 15 hours a week. We slink by, but i know if we didnt have our debt, life would be alot easier. It is amazing what you dont need in life :-)

Originally posted by FrugalMomof3
I am reading alot of posts with members having $200,000-$300,000 mortgages and in order to be approved for such a mortgage you have to make enough to cover the mortgage and taxes, and it puzzles me how someone with a mortgage that high would be struggling??? I just find it hard to understand with people bringing home $5000+ per month and are struggling. JMO!

Cost of living...for the most part, that's all it is. Cost of living. Depending on where you live, you may not be able to find a house for less than $200,000 or $300,000 or even $500,000. If that's the case, you could possibly bring in $5,000 per month and have it be just enough to get by.

Now, if as you said, people are bringing in that amount of money and after bills have quite a bit left over, then I agree...there have to be areas where they can cut stuff out so that they aren't struggling.

Right now, with me out of work, we are bringing in half of what we usually bring in, my husbands salary doesn't even cover the mortgage, which is why we are struggling. However, our situation is temporary and when we are both working again in September, things will be easier. We won't necessarily be "struggling" but we won't really be in a position to save anything until my oldest son is in kindergarten and we only have one daycare payment for the baby. That's not for 3 more years. My husband and I make roughly the same amount, so me staying home and cutting out the daycare payments doesn't help the problem, nor would he staying home. We've worked the numbers.

However, and this is important...we have no debt with the exception of our house and our car. We do not carry a credit card balance, and have no loans or liens or anything like that.

It just really depends on where you live. You and I don't really live that far from each other, but our costs of living are drastically different. I find that fascinating, and I think that's one of the best things about this board...seeing how other people live and hearing all the different ways we manage our lives.

Amy,
I agree, we do live pretty close and yes our COL is completely different, I understand about the COL in various areas.

I just didnt know if I was the only one with the same or almost the same income and paying out as much as we do.

We have CC's 4 to be exact all but 1 with no more than a $400 balance on each, 1 with a balance of $1000 and I am making double payments to them.

I wouldn't classify myself as super struggling as we do have money left over after each bi-weekly paycheck are are ok but if something arises like needing to fix the car or something ,we would have to rely on a CC to pay for it.

Thanks for your input! :)

Tracy,
When I first quit my job, DH made $600 a week & brought home $467.76. I still know this amount. :) It's implanted in my memory and I shall never forget. :)

Income was...2026/ month if you factor in the extra week every three months.
Mortgage, taxes & ins - $575
2 nd mortgage - $270
Car pmt - $195
Utilities - $250
Phone & internet - $100
Cable - $45
Garbage - 23
Car ins $70

So, our expenses left us with 598 a month for food, gas, MEDICAL, clothing, any music lessons, camp, etc. It was tight!

To top it all off, we had $20K in credit cards. We were hurting major. We also needed that extra payday, so often our bills would go out late because it would be 2 more months before the extra week.

It took us 5 years to crawl out of the ccards, and the experience taught us many valuable lessons. ;)

Now he makes a little more, but our expenses have gone up, too. We still don't have alot of spending money, but it works better without the debt.

We're one kid away from qualifying for the food pantry. DH is self-employed technically, but it's for his dad. They're partners in this and DFIL thinks sneekers cost $2.50. So you can imagine the issue we have with getting raises. He'd do it, but it'd be a fight all the way & we'd have to listen to the "you kids don't need...bla bla bla." His house cost him $40k (1700 sq ft) to build and he paid it off in like 10 years. He just doesn't understand today's prices.

Anyway, I didn't mean for this to be a whine session for Jamee. :)

We *do* struggle. Many of us here at FV do. Some make $5k a month, but their mortgage is $3k of it. Some have made bad choices and are here for information to help them dig out. Some have had bed things happen & weren't prepared. We're quite a diverse group of people. :)

I understand the frustration. I have people I'm very familiar with that make what we do & have $240k mortgages & new furniture every other year. I get so irritated sometimes. :) How come *they* can do it!?! The answer is that they can't. They are indebt up to their ears & are getting worse. I have to curb my jealous issues & remember that things aren't what they appear.

i find this an extremly interesting topic thank you for bringing it up. i read how families of 5 and 6 live on 30 or less a year and i am in awe at how you do it. we are a family of just 3 and i dont know that we could! let me put it this way, it would be a horrible struggle for us to. my husband comments on what he and his mother and sis lived on when his parents got divorced and im at a loss for words. he talks about eating nothing but beans, or living in the car and it makes me thankful at what we have. i applaud you guys for being able to do what you do.

Tracy, my hubby is retired and we are in your income range now, but it wasn't always this way.

I used to work and made very good money for our area. That combined with my hubby's pay and we made really good money. I was in charge of the bills for a long time and everything was always paid on time, but I had never heard of paying extra on them until I came here. By then I was no longer in charge of the bills.

But let's go back to when I was in charge of the bills. Everyone is right, you tend to spend what you earn, unless you are smart, which of course I wasn't. Not being able to have kids and being infertile was very depressing for me. So my way of thinking was we deserved everything we bought. We went on vacation 6-8 times a year and I don't mean cheap ones either. Gambling to Atlantic City at least 4 times a year and generally dropping over 1K each time. We always did Florida once a year for 2 weeks and stayed at Disney World, then in the fall we always went to Williamsburg, VA for 4-5 days. We easily spent 10K-12K a year on vacations.

I don't even want to know how much we spent in eating out every week! :eek:

Then I got sick, quit my job and boy oh boy did our lives change! I was brought up frugally but never thought of it like that, we never lacked for anything and I thought everyone lived like we did. But then things really changed when I got cancer and Murphy showed up and wouldn't seem to leave. So we ended up going in debt to the tune of about 17K in 3 weeks! Now we struggle and get by. IF we go anywhere, it is now once a year and only for a couple of days. We only eat out once or twice a month now. Believe me it was really hard at first, but I am now getting used to it. Hubby on the other hand has a hard time with it.

How come *they* can do it!?! The answer is that they can't. They are indebt up to their ears & are getting worse.
it reminds me of that commercial i LOVE. the guy with the big grin on his face the whole commercial saying he plays golf at the country club and has new home and new this and that and "how do i afford it all? im in debt up to my eyeballs." im sorry, but i get a kick out of it everytime i see it. :D

I forgot about that commercial! LOL! I like that one, too.
Yup, I know a few people like that. :)

There's another factor at play here too -- the AGE of the couple.

I think a lot of us struggled when we were young.

As we age, we begin to build assets and want to behave wisely to accrue wealth.

*****************************

If you make a comfortable 6 figures but hire a cleaning service and go out to eat 3 nights a week, is that really any gain over making in the mid-five-digits and doing-it-yourself?

And some of the FV members aren't struggling, but they belong on the boards because they don't want to lose to the keep-up-with-the-Jones game. They need regular injections of sanity to convince themselves that Madison Avenue and Tom-next-door aren't the models to follow. They're trying to be good stewards by spending and saving wisely.

You have no idea how much neighborhood snobbery I found when we bought a house in a nice suburb!

A neighbor's 7-yr-old said to mine, "Those are OLD clothes." Not because they were unfashionable or grungy. Just because I had let it out they we'd bought the outfit at a garage sale. [7 years old and too 'good' for garage-sale clothes!]

One neighbor even asked me, "Don't you believe in eating out?" Like it was a religious decision! (They ate out or had pizza delivery 2 or 3 times a week.)

That same neighbor saw a friend of mine fixing their sewage pipes and asked, "Are you a worker? I need some plumbing done." The husband replied, "I am a worker, but I own the house."

*************************************

And some of time, these 'upscale' neighbors let comments slip -- and I got a feel for just how tenuous that primo lifestyle really is.

At a party, one neighbor said, "I'm livin' LARGE! And I got the debt to show it."

Those were the neighbors who had a Country Club membership. And who would go to 2 or 3 different fast food restaurants to pick up dinner for their fussy eaters.

But, from hints that they dropped, I think that their finances were in terrible shape.

It didn't stop 'em spending, though.

*************************************

Even if you made $100k/yr, I hope you wouldn't change a lot of your frugal habits.

Or ... I should say ... WHEN you make $100k/yr, I hope you still cook at home!

This is a very interesting and enlightening topic, Thank you so much for bringing it up Tracy.

BTW, about my previous post:

* I'm old enough to belong to the Red Hat Club.
* After hearing that snobbish 7-yr-old and people like her in the neighborhood, don't I NEED a place like this for sanity?

One note on the mortgage amount, and how that can be misleading, is that lenders will do all sorts of creative things to "qualify" you for a larger loan. I have seen people who make less than $50,000 or so be qualified for half-million dollar homes out here in California. So yes, they have a high mortgage, but that just means that almost all of their take-home pay is spent on housing, and they don't have enough money to pay for utilities and groceries. So I wouldn't necessarily use the size of one's mortgage to estimate how much disposable income they have. The big push here is to qualify you for a mortgage AND a second mortgage at the same time, so you are basically borrowing on equity you don't even have yet, and walking into a home purchase with a negative net worth of hundreds of thousands of dollars.

That said, yes, my mortgage is currently in the $300,000 range, but I am not a member of this group because I'm struggling to make ends meet. As I've mentioned before in previous posts, my main reason for being here is to stay motivated to be able to retire in ten years. I never have to worry about whether I will be able to eat tomorrow (hopefully), but I don't have enough to quit my job right now and live comfortably on my savings. If I had started saving and being frugal when I first entered the workforce, twenty-two years ago, I would own my home outright now and could spend time doing the things I enjoy, as opposed to having to go to work five days a week and miss out on life all that time.

So even though I am not going through the same events as some on this group, worrying about making it to the next paycheck, floating checks because there just simply isn't enough money to make it to the next payday, that doesn't mean that I'm not still trying to scrimp and save every penny to reach a significant goal in my life, and struggling in the process. So my thought process is the same, even if my lifestyle is a little different. And I'm also trying to learn a frugal lifestyle to maintain me once I *do* retire.

As someone mentioned earlier, you do spend to meet your income. You always think that if you made just another $100 a month, or $10,000 a year, or whatever, that you'd have it made. But for most of us, that isn't true. When I left home, I made about $20,000 per year. I lived in a studio apartment and ate a lot of peanut butter and bologna, but I managed. Now, I make five times that amount, but I live on acreage, with livestock, and I have vet bills, and fencing bills, and feed bills, on top of my other routine living expenses. I don't eat a lot of peanut butter (well, yes, I do, but not because I *have* to!), but I also can't afford a trip to Europe.

You make an excellent point EB.

With age should come wisdom in matters financial.

And we all need support in going against the current philosophy of spend yourself silly and into bankruptcy if possible.

Tracy up until apr 04 we made between 28,000 -31,000 most years. So yep I get what you are saying. I am very grateful Dh started earning more starting apr of 04. We made around 50 this year. To be honest its a struggle on our increased income with everything rising like crazy so I definately have alot of respect for anyone doing it on less.
I wonder where we would be with todays prices on our previous income.
The electric rates have doubled, gas prices cost us around 70-80 weekly as we are rural. Ds's school needs 10-30 several times monthly it seems, heating costs are awful, groceries are way up property taxes are up , we paid more income tax with that higher income and no longer recieve eic credits
. Once I point it all out no wonder we aren't floating in extra $. I'm just grateful we can pay it!

For the record though our original mortgage was for 68K.

Originally posted by madhen
.... I am not a member of this group because I'm struggling to make ends meet. As I've mentioned before in previous posts, my main reason for being here is to stay motivated to be able to retire in ten years. I never have to worry about whether I will be able to eat tomorrow (hopefully), but I don't have enough to quit my job right now and live comfortably on my savings. If I had started saving and being frugal when I first entered the workforce, twenty-two years ago, I would own my home outright now and could spend time doing the things I enjoy, as opposed to having to go to work five days a week and miss out on life all that time.

So even though I am not going through the same events as some on this group, worrying about making it to the next paycheck, floating checks because there just simply isn't enough money to make it to the next payday, that doesn't mean that I'm not still trying to scrimp and save every penny to reach a significant goal in my life, and struggling in the process. So my thought process is the same, even if my lifestyle is a little different. And I'm also trying to learn a frugal lifestyle to maintain me once I *do* retire.

This is me.... I/we make a comfortable salary, upper middle class for our area. But we didn't go overboard with house- it's a humble home, we have no bills and we have quite a bit left over at the end of the month.

I'm here because I know I can save more, reduce, reuse, recycle, keep up with my exercise (not the Jones!) and retire early. And it's working!

I can't edit so I'll add it here to go with my above post. I thank God our cc's are finally paid off too!
I guess I really shouldn't say we struggle. I guess what I mean is it's not any easier like I thought it would be.
We do have a decent ef. However it was from an inheritance~ just so it doesn't seem misleading.
We currently need roofing and had pipes break between floors last week so its a blessing to have!Thanks Gram!:angel:

I'm glad this topic came up too. My DH is a painting subcontractor and we never know from month to month what or if he'll be paid. We have worked for some contractors and never got paid. Its a very shakey way to live. Any other sub's out there? Plus in construction your at the mercy of the weather and economy big time. The hurricanes put a huge dent in our income. Yes, there was work after wards but the wait for insurance money was unbelieveable. Let me rave and rant in that direction. Be one day late with you monthly payment and they'll threaten to cancel you have a claim and you can wait weeks for a check. Okay enought said in that region!
We have learned the hard way spent 5 years in cc hell not to spend it til we've got it in our hands and prioritize! Whats a have to and a need! Save, Save, Save! That rainy day is coming and you won't get any warning.

Laurie in Bradenton

YES! I agree!! Sometimes I hate seeing people's mortgage totals because I think----I wish we could AFFORD a house!!

We make 22K a year and are paying off $9,000 in ccs (only 9! we're getting there) and $25k in student loans and $18k in a loan from FIL. I tell my husband, just get a job that doesn't qualify us for WIC anymore. Please!

It is frustrating to see slow progress and have so little left over every month, but hey, now you're not in the negative anymore. The money left over is your's. The FV has stopped our downward spiral into debt. This has been our best year ever!! :D

You absolutely cannot compare yourself to other people---there's always somebody smarter or richer or better-looking than yourself. I think you're doing awesome; I wish we had property we could sell to get rid of more debt (maybe one of my kids??? jk :D ) like you did.

My dad always said that being poor is a state of mind, but you can fix being broke.

Actually my dad said it a little better than that

Being poor is a state of mind and being broke is a state of being

Tracy, I feel your pain! My DH works two jobs, and is a full-time college student. He makes $9.00 an hour on each job, and is going to school on student loans. I work 12 hours a week and make $8.00 an hour. Our combined take home pay is about $1,600 a month. That is if we don't get sick and miss work, or the restaurant is not closed for a holiday, and I can't work, etc. Our rent is $550 a month, utilities (gas, elec, water, trash, phone, basic cable, internet) average about $300-350 a month, and until we paid off our car loan this week, we had a car payment of $398.96, plus $75 a month for car insurance. We have no health insurance, we just can not afford it. This leaves very little for clothing, food, gas for the car, or anything else.

We do not have cell phones, we never eat out, I get a haircut once a year, DH gets one about every eight weeks. I have not purchased a new pair of shoes for myself in three years. I am so happy to have the car loan paid off three months early with our income tax refund. The rest of the refund will pay for some dental work that DH has needed desperately for the last two years.

Several years ago my SIL(my brother's wife) and I were comparing finances. I was surprised to learn that my DH made quite a bit more than my brother was making. Yet, they were putting away quite a bit each week in savings while we were definitely not. We lived near each other and bills for both our families were pretty similar. What I am trying to say is that what has already been said is very true. It is HOW you handle your money not how MUCH you are handling. Being in CC debt taught me a lot, too. I no longer think, "well, if it's there, why not spend it"? I now think, "well, if it's there, why not save it"? I don't ever want to be in debt like that again. Been there, done that, it was no fun.

I am glad I brought up this topic, it's nice to see how everyone has different ways that they handle budgeting, making ends meet, etc...

I wasn't intending to put anyone down so if I did, I apologize, I just like to see the different types of responses on how someone makes it from paycheck to paycheck, etc...

I have learned alot from Frugal Village and I appreciate all the comments and support from here, you ladies and gents are the greatest! :hugz:

I have 2 dd's in college. Tution need I say more? We make more money but they cost more money than ever. Our car insurance alone for 3 cars is up to $430 a month with both girls on it.

FrugalMom of 3 I know where your coming from. I make around 20,000 a year. I do get child support from their dad but in October my oldest one will be coming off the child support. Which will be $325 I won't be getting. The $20,000 is just what I get from work. Yes, it can be discouraging living pay check to pay check. Like I have said on this board I am very frugal to the bone. I was debt free except for the mortgage and dental payment I had, but than Mr. Murphy came along and my car engine was going out. Was going to cost way to much to repair it so I had to get another car. I do have five housekeeping jobs that I do on the side which help out. I try to think of different alternatives to doing something that could be cheaper. The other thing is that I enjoy being frugal. Consider it a hobby. Even if I made alot of money I would still be frugal. I agree with you when someone says they are having a hard time making it $50,000 or more. Gosh I would fee like I hit the lotto if I made that much.

Right now, my husband is making $200/week. Before taxes. When he sells a car he gets more. He's sold three cars in the last 2 months. For a grand total of $300 extra. Before taxes. yeah, car salesmen are rolling in the dough :rolleyes: (tongue in cheek)

We also have another $3500 in retirement coming in. We have a mortgage (taxes & insurance are rolled into one), a van payment, and health insurance plus the other bills like utilities (nearly $500/month), groceries (I'm trying for less than $300/month), and others. Each month, after our "living bills" we have $400 left. And that is for Credit Card bills. We have *nothing* left over. Nothing for extracurricular activities, nothing for entertainment, shoot. I had to grin & bear it and buy the boys new socks with a credit card.

Yeah, it's hard. Much harder than it was when dh was making $70k.year but we are doing it. I know it will only make us stronger. And it makes it easier to know there is a light at the end of the tunnel.

:hugz:

My daughter and I live on an income of less than 15,000 a year. It is a disability pension.

My house is small and it's paid off. Otherwise, we would not be able to make ends meet. I don't have decent health insurance. I worry about that more than anything else. I've always tried to live beneath my means and I am so lucky that I have.

My sister and hubby struggle on over $50,000 a yr income but it's because they have a big house, property and newer cars, travel a lot, and have things I don't, such as satellite tv and cell phones and credit card debt. Everything adds up.

TWO things:

#1)I think so much of this is regional.

Housing costs vary GREATLY by region and that sets the tone for wages in the area. In the Seattle area (the whole county, actually), the 'average' house sells for $350,000. In order to afford a home, we went into the next county. Our home is worth about $230,000 now (so it is below 'average' - i.e. it's small).

The reduced housing cost resulted in increased communting costs, as we are 20 miles from downtown Seattle - giving my dh a 200-mile-per-week commute, so his gasoline runs a minimum of $160/month.

Now, we are not struggling - anymore. We did when we first married, and I was a student, and we had our first baby and bought a house in the same year. At that point our income was HALF what it is now, and we had no car payments. We were no longer using CC, but weren't making headway on the balance either. Then we had another baby.

At that point, I was done with school & making more per hour, but that 2nd baby wouldn't 'let' me work. Then dh started his own business. We struggled then; the kids were on state medical and we got WIC.

Gradually, things changed. The baby grew up a little & I was able to work half-time. A couple of years later, I changed jobs and got a 10% raise. Dh's business grew and now he earns double what he did as an employee.

All that time, we never really made any head-way on the CC balance - just min payments on a $20,000 balance. Until about 2 years ago. I started paying extra. Then when I came here (about 9 months ago), I got really stricted and structured with spending and went from paying $400 on the CC to $1100 - well and dh is making about $400 more too.

And #2) As others have said, people spend what (or more than) they make! Most of us have BTDT, or we wouldn't be here.

I do not have an income below $32,000 at this time. However,when I had my first child we went from an income of about $37,000 to an income of about $17,000 overnight. It was the hardest 2 years of my life. We cleared about $1400 per month with a new baby. Rent was $475, car payment was $500, insurance was $90 and utilities ran about $200 per month. It left us with $135 for diapers and groceries for the month.

We now make 4 times what we ever had before. Know what? We still get ourselves in a jam once in a while due to poor planning, bad decisions or emergency situations. We are still FRUGAL regardless of income level because it is irresponsible not to be, IMHO. The difference between then and now is that I have learned to better use my resources and to keep a pantry and a stocked freezer.:smball:

I do think this is really interesting....and I agree about the regional and age thing. I will admit, I never post my numbers. Suffice it to say, we have a hefty mortgage. My dh makes a very good living for us. We have NO other debt. This has taken years! and lots of hard work to get to this point in our lives. I struggled as a single parent....believe me. After dh and I married, we had car loans, medical bills, orthodontics....just like everyone else. But because I choose to be frugal in other areas (make all our meals from scratch, not eat out, shop at thrift stores, etc) we have made it to a more comfortable place....but I still do all the same things and coming here keeps me motivated. Our goal now is to pay off our mortgage in the next 10-15 years so dh can retire early. I don't look down on anyone who has debt or a smaller income....because most of us have been there and have learned from it and want to continue saving and investing. We're just at different points in our lives. When I was younger and in a terribly horrible place financially, I thought it would always be that way....I just could never get my head above water. It's terrifying and frustrating :( But hard work DOES pay off....and the debt does get paid off and life does get better....but it is hard work and we all need all the encouragement we can get! It took over 4 years to pay off the medical bills from having my two girls...no insurance(2 c-sections). But I paid them...no state assistance, no food stamps, no help from anyone...just slow and steady repayment. I went to work with shoes I had glued together.....I didn't buy clothes for *years* when my kids were young. New underwear is still a huge thrill for me!!! My point is (and yes, I do have one...) that I have great respect for everyone on this board, no matter what their income or their situation is. If you are here, you're on the right track and you are making the honest attempt to better your life, and the life of your family. Hold your head high....it is an honorable thing to take control of your finances and take that giant step towards financial freedom. A long road.....but a great destination!

Tracy,
I know how you feel. I wonder the same thing about my dh's brother. He's 32, divorced with one child. He pays $150 for her a month, and makes about $75,000. Yet, he is constantly borrowing money, a vehicle, etc. from my in-laws. No one knows *what* he is doing with all of his money!
We are a family of 6, and my dh is a deputy with the sheriff's dept. We make about $22,000 / year. It is very tough! Last year alone we had to pay $7000 in medical bills that our insurance didn't cover. This year we don't have any insurance, so I'm hoping we don't get sick. :( I buy cheap clothes for the older kids, little ones wear hand-me-downs, buy store-brand food, meat in bulk, and cut corners wherever I can. Sometimes it's still not enough - this month we couldn't afford gas for the car. So the only place we will go is church!
I know it sounds bad - but we are blessed beyond measure. When my dh and I got married, we only made $12,000 - and we had 4 in our family then! (I had 2 kids from first marriage) So, it can be done, at least so far!

Marla:)

I wouldn't flame you either.

We make $31,000 gross in canadian dollars. There is me, hubby, 5 kids and 2 cats. Once our bills are paid off we will be comfortable. Most of my family makes double or more what we make and can't understand how we can survive on this amount. But we don't have alot of the extras that others might have. We are happy and our kids don't go without.

We don't live on less than you mentioned Traci, but for many years when our dk's were small (we have 3 grown kids) we did. Dh has been self employed for most of our married lives and with this comes the extremes of income (both highs and lows) and TAXES. I'm not complaining but I can tell you that we've seen many lean years (don't even get me going on the year I sat up and died 6 dozen Easter eggs, bought on sale ofcourse, to have 1 egg sucking dog to eat them all after the Easter Bunny hid them.......much to the dismay of 3 little kids and their tired mommy! there was no money to buy another dozen to hide....the kids were all crying....I'll never foget that. We laugh about it often now....ANYway). We've sold coke bottles, shopped with coupons, worn hand me downs and garage sale clothes (which I still like to do b.t.w), struggled with credit card debt and mortgage and car payments. Looking back I don't really know how we did what we did at times but those times hold some of the sweetest memories of our lives. I sometimes look at mortgage amounts too and wonder what someone must have to make to be able to make those payments but I also know that it's all relative. We make better money but we still have to manage it like crazy. We have lean years still...they come and go. We've managed to put 3 kids through college with no debt and get almost out of debt ourselves all the while. When you're determined you can do almost anything. Hang in there...you're on the right track and soon you'll feel the momentum grab hold and you'll really start to enjoy the ride. ;)

Hi I have to agree when someone said it is regional. We live in Seattle and we have a one bedroom city condo and it cost $225,000. We are not really struggling to pay our mortgage; but we have very little disposable income.
My husband makes over 50k --but it just doesn't go very far with housing prices so high. We chose to stay in the city so my DH doesn't have to commute. We tried living outside the city; but the hour commute on the bus (driving was even worse) each way wasn't worth the money we saved on housing. Of course we like our cozy streamed down life.

However all that said; my sisters family makes 3x as mush as we do and they are really struggling and no body knows why. Though I am guessing it's their huge house plus the hour commute which I mentioned above .

So great job to all the people who are doing so well on even less with larger families then I have.

I have been thinking about this thread quite a bit. I have really enjoyed it. A couple of other things that I thought of that may apply to some of the grocery bills being higher or lower is the size (weight) of the family. My family may be considered big because of the height of my DH (6'4 and he weighs 187) and DS (5'9 15yo and 100 pounds) and DS (4'9 75 pounds and 11 yo). I am short 5'3- and am at the 120 mark or so. So what may be considered a lot for some to eat may be considered a little for my boys or vice versa.

Another thing that makes my grocery bill higher is that I have to buy mostly natural foods for me. I eat fresh fruits and veggies, chicken and pork but I am highly allergic to milk, eggs, nuts, seafood, soy, corn, wheat, beef and turkey- just say the top 8 allergies listed by the medical association I have all 8 plus a few. So on the rare occassions that I want a bag of chips that bag cost $4.00+. A loaf of bread for me is about $6.

One thing that I have started doing (just in the last two weeks) is to combine coupons with sales. Last week I was able to stock up on 3 things that my family uses. Oatmeal, Toaster Scramblers, and ice cream treats. I bought 20 boxes of toaster scramblers for 25 cents each, 10 boxes of oatmeal for $1.50 (Regularly $3.47) (can't use generic because of allergies) and 8 cartons of ice cream for 17 cents each.

I often eat leftovers or oatmeal when the family is eating something that I can't have.

This week maybe I can find a couple of other items to stock up on. I am hoping that if I can keep this cycle going that eventually I will go down below $200 a month for groceries.

OPPS, I posted this to the wrong thread. I'll post it to the right one now. Sorry.

Hubbies income is over that but not a lot. I'm here because I need the continued incentive and things are tight for us. We just refinanced our mortgage and it threw me into a real depression when I realized it we just paid minimum mort payments I'd be 72 by the time we paid it off, where'd my youth go? With all the expenses of the farm, hubby driving 2 hours round trip for work (gas cost of at least 225 a month), both trucks being older, land needing fenced, higher utility bills, property tax increases, fuel for the tractors and feed costs going through the roof there isn't a lot left at the end of the month for us.

I can't work off the farm for several reasons, a minimal physical disability and all the responsibility of the animals on the farm I need to be here.

I scrimp and save every way I can think of to try to save for a newer used truck for hubby for work, we can't afford a payment. I scrimp and save for retirement. I'm now also scrimping and saving every penny I can to pay down that mortgage, it is a lot higher that I ever wanted.

I KNOW we're very fortunate to have what we do, but also know how quickly an emergency on the farm could turn it all around, I want to be prepared just in case.

I also strive to do all that I can to raise as much of our food as possible, gardening, raising beef, chickens/eggs. I barter where I can, and I hope to sell veggies this summer to add to the income.

BTW mom of three, just to let you know I've been watching and admire your posts and all you're doing and learn from you (and all the others here!)

kj

I just recently started making over 32 thousand... but barely. Luckily, I am in the military, (or not luckily, depending how you view it! :) ) so I dont have to worry about medical care for my kids, and housing is taken care of. But there still isnt much money to go around. I am a Single Parent, and Ex Husband doesnt pay child support, so it is all about my paycheck. I used to be really frugal, then I got fed up, and then, of course, finances went to poop, so I am having to readjust my life again. That is why I decided to join this group, to have people who will inspire me to continue being frugal, and stay that way!

Tracy, I am not in the 32,000 and under bracket, but I too struggle each month.. My kids are always on the move with one activity or sport or another(sports are not cheap)... Our vehicles are at the age that they have had to have quite a bit of maintainance on both of them.. My house payment is 900.00 a month, while electric, cable, and phone run us right now about another 400.00.. We should have a ton of money left over each paycheck, and we can never seem to get over that hump... We get just to the breaking point and then a major thing will happen.. I am here to get on the band wagon and start to save money... My DD will be in college in just six or so years... I hope that I can figure out more ways to save money and not be such a spendthrift and be held accountable.. I am glad that this thread has been brought up... Thanks Tracy..


The whole thing of mortgages makes me laugh-at my sister in law and brother in law... They just bought a BRAND NEW house... Nothing special, not on a big lot nothing-three bedroom, two bath... They make about the same amount as my DH does, they work at the same company, and I know what they make together.... Our mortgage was 104,000 almost 8 years ago, and our payments are right at 900.00 a month... They now have a mortgatge of 200,000 and a payment of 1,500 each and every month... Even if I had no kids,(they don't) I would not even want to begin to have a payment THAT high..... They are not savers, they are always eating out, have two new cars with payments, credit cards, she gets her nails done every other week, have to have the newest and latest gadgets and "things"... I am afraid that they are going to be in for a big suprise when they see just how much it is to live in a house with all the expenses... They have always rented houses, or apartments that had little or no maintainance, and have never had to take true ownership of something in their lives... It will be interesting to see how they cope for the next year or so...

I have come to the conclusion that I do not "need" a new house and that for the time being I am perfectly happy where I am... Thanks for the long rant....

Before my hubby's last raise, we were raising a family of four on under 32 K... and with that raise came more spending and more credit card debt, which we are now paying for... we gross around 40 K now.. but we are throwing as much money as we can into paying off those stupid credit card debts.. we got ourselves into this mess.. and we will get ourselves out of it! We have a friend who makes 70 K, and is always struggling because he won't stop buying big ticket toys and won't stop using his credit cards for frivolous purchases.... lack of discipline is why high income people struggle often more than we do.... we have no car payments.. both of our cars were cash.. they aren't new, but they run. Our current mortgage is around 88K and we have about 14K in CC and loan debt... I only work 4 months per year so we have to make those months count by throwing all our extras into paying the debt... we also pay 3500 a year to send our girl to a Christian school....

that's my story anyhow...

WoW!!!!
What a thread!

What really strikes me is the difference in the way some people spend/save their money.
Together me and my hubby make a good living, but we ended up in serious CC debt:pdoff: ....Wanting to live life to the full and also 3 holidays a year as well as clothes and cars made the ammounts sky-rocket.

Now we, well I am more frugal, life seems to be moving along at a good pace, Im paying debt off, but it's always on the back of my mind about the way we wasted the money....

How come *they* can do it!?! The answer is that they can't. They are indebt up to their ears & are getting worse.
it reminds me of that commercial i LOVE. the guy with the big grin on his face the whole commercial saying he plays golf at the country club and has new home and new this and that and "how do i afford it all? im in debt up to my eyeballs." im sorry, but i get a kick out of it everytime i see it. :D

I LOVED this ad! I used to see it all the time on the Fox network Financial Block on Saturday mornings.

I agree with most of the people that a lot of it is about COL. I'm in MA and we would like to buy a house - the median house price in my hometown (small suburb of Worcester) is $450,000. DH and I make a combined $108,000 per year (ok, we will in two weeks when he starts his new job) and we still would be hard pressed to come up with a mortgage payment every month on that! One of our goals for the future is to actually save 20% down on a house - so even if we can find one for $300,000 then we're still looking at having to save $60,000 for a down payment. On the flip side, DH was unemployed for 10 months recently and we had to live on my $35,000/yr income for that time.

I just also wanted to add - in addition to FV - when I first graduated from college and lived on my own I made $32,000/yr. One of the best message boards for my to visit was on The Motley Fool (www.fool.com). They have a ton of message board (like 2000) but the one I liked was "Living Below Your Means - Under $35K." Everyone there was in roughly the same income bracket - there were some singles, some large families, some military - but I found it very easy to relate to. They used to be free and now they do charge a subscription fee (I want to say $25 a year?) but I really enjoyed the community.

les then $24, 000 yr, we get taxed on almost everything 17% tax bracket in PEI, Canada. Gst 7%, 10% income
but like everyone said everyones circumstances are differn't , we only have 2 boys. but as candaians we have health insurance ( covers some cost , not all), Gst every 3 months, and family allowance every month form the goverment that we pay highly in taxes to the Gov.
Right now hubby and I can't afford ahouse to buy again, standard of living in Town is so high, land taxes are unbelievable hiking up every year. So unless he gets a excellent job down the road, and I get a half decent one, forget it, we we will rent along time.
But thats alright, Ive gotten use to the last year of not paying land tax and buying oil.
so hang in there
charlene

I make less than $25,000 and though it's only me I have a lot of medical expeses which make it hard to get through each month.

Well, we have gradually made more yearly income, last year we made $64000.00, this year may be $11,000 on top of that.

However, we live in San Diego, CA, (expensive), and still have 2 mortgages which can be trying. Property taxes are pretty high ($6000.00)
My DH also has some expensive hobbies like snowboarding...

The other thing is the credit card debt, and car loan.

I cannot say we are struggling right now, but we are being more frugal, kind of, by not spending so much, and also focusing on our credit card debt.
Also, trying to build up the savings from DH's accident late last year, and the purchase of a second home...

I love this site, it has really helped alot!!!:reindeer:

DH brings home about $45K a year and we are really struggling and have WAY too many overdue, older bills (credit cards, medical, etc). Here in San Diego, we are just not making enough. It's not even about keeping up with other people. I could care less about the cars & stuff like that and we are renting and I like where we live. I do know there are things that we can do to save money & that's why I read here :)

Also, the "average" house here sells for well over $500K. That is insane & I know that we will NEVER be able to buy here.

My Fiancee and I liv on about 25,000 .
We both had bills when we got together. We now have a 30 year mortgage,
bills and now he needs a new truck because of his new job. Alot of traveling and our little truck is on her last leg... ( paid 200.00 about 4 years ago for her )
This on will be a payment because its the only way. Wewill pay it off as fast as possible.
We have a 17 years old son ( i say we because DS is like my fiancee's own )
I receive $30.00 a week child support from his dad.
The village is my rock....

We have been earning over $6000 a month for the last 3 years........and still in trouble it seemed. For the last 8-9 months I have been watching my spending and saving. In Jan I took a lay off from my job and I now attend college full time. We lost $2200 a month income take home........ We have not felt it.... We are living in our means now......... We wasted so much money over the years. My hubby will be going back to his civilian job which will cut us another $1200 a month........ will we feel it....... a little, but we have almost no debt now and it balances out........ Just thought I would share.

I find that income and debt are relative. It seems that over the years the more I made, the more I spent. And since it was always living and spending well over my means, it ended up the same....more debt....I was a spendthrift at 20,000 per year and at 50,000 per year. Just comes to a higher percentage... SO......it still comes down to doing whatever you possibly can to pay as much as you possibly can as fast as you possibly can. And I think the total debt amount can be higher with a higher income. In any case, I find it inspiring to read everyones stories and hints for saving, recycling and finding method to get out of debt. I plan to just keep trying to cut expenses and spending and to pay as much as humanly possible on our debts so that someday I can breathe again!

Tracy,

We are only a famly of 2, SO makes 32k begore taxes and I make about 8.
Until Last April, we have the $800 mortgage, all utils, car payment, etc. When SO gf passed away, the loan was paid out. I paid off my car since we had extra money. Now I am in school full time. So is making what he s bc of the mandatory OT, thats why we will be able to pay the 6k in 6 weeks..but we lso have reg bills such as back state taxes 267/mo, all utils, oil heat, cars that keep dying (12 yrs old), tuition.
When we get the 6k bill paid we will be on a blank slate. Then we will start an new EF for a car, which one of us will be needed soon.

I too wonder about those who make over 200k....even if they have a huge mortgage, tey didnt have to get one. I just dont get that, kinda like why Oprahs debt diet didnt really interest me.

Dont feel bad, you are not the only one struggling, but you seem to stay on track and you are so GOOD at frugaling!


Megan

We struggle every day it seems like. On paper we make quite a bit of money, close to $90,000/year. THAT is what got us our house, and when you purchase a house they don't really take into account your actual ability to repay the mortgage. They do look at the credit cards and such but don't take those amounts into much consideration for the mortgage payment.

We live in the NW suburbs of Chicago and it is VERY expensive to live here. We were lucky to get our house in 2004 when we did otherwise we would not be able to afford it at all and it isn't even close to being one of those McMansions that are being built all around us. However, our property taxes are done based on THOSE houses' value, not really what the value of ours should be. Where we live you are taxed on the value of the most expensive houses in the county and then they work down from there.

After medical insurance (DH covers us and it's around $400/month, with 1200 deductible and pay-up-front meds), utilities, credit cards (out of control originally from medical expenses and medications but now for groceries and gas because we don't have the cash for it), daycare, food and gas we are living WAY above our means. Trying to cut back has helped but the medical expenses are still there and I am having some more issues at the moment with a cracked rib so there we are going to take a huge hit there.

I can't get DH to think that we really ARE introuble money wise. He keeps trying to get an Ebay business started, what he plans to do with it I have no idea. I have sold things around the house but he thinks he can get things wholesale and sell them that way. Maybe he can, but he has spent so much money on it all so far and NOTHING has come of it. He claims now that it won't work. So in two months we will do this all again. UGH! I hate money and trying to convince DH that we don't have enough is almost hopeless.

Hugs,

Deb

Hi there

Reading this with great interest, as I sure have been feeling alone lately...

We are a family of four (another on the way) living on an income of approx. $21,000 CDN. I'm a SAHM, and just can't, in my heart, leave my little ones for the sake of a dime. I would very much like to supplement our income more- I do some freelance writing, selling on e-bay etc, even a couple of sales a month make a difference.

These past few months have been a trial as hubby lost a freelance gig which paid $300 or so a month. Doesn't seem like much, but it sure made a difference.

We're crashing that debt away with a consumer proposal that only has 2 more years to go. Our mortgage is minimal too.

Now my little boy is 5, I want him to do soccer this summer, and I'm stewing about the $50 I need to send him ! (I can spare it this month) Also, I've been agonizing over homeschooling- it's been my dream. However, we do have a great primary school....They called the other day, and I guess DS will attend in the fall. Again, I live in abject fear of the hidden costs to come.

We're managing- just, but it's when the unforeseen happens that we have a problem.

I'm so glad I have this space to vent. :) Thanks for listening ladies !

Love,

Pam in Nova Scotia.

Boy, I understand how you feel. We have been in your financial position when we were younger. Those feelings of wow, what are you guys complaining about, do come up.

My DH has always worked for a Non-Profit Agency that helps people in need. Many times we were just at the point when we could have used this help ourselves. Of course we were just that much over the limit.

Anyway, the habits that we have developed over the years like -
Always staying in the black, paying off any credit purchases every month, growing a garden and learning to home process our foods, limiting unnecessary purchases and not buying or financing a home that we couldn't afford, have been learning experiences.

Many of our friends live the TV lifestyle. They have all the toys and all of the newest things. I can't even begin to tell you how many of them have teased us about be cheap. Then they come to us privately confiding that they are in desperate financial need. No 'Thing' in the garage or home is worth that kind of gut wrenching feeling!

Just keep making the difficult choices. It will be worth it. I know, believe me I know, we've been there and nothing is more freeing than living within your means. Nothing.

My Best to all of you,
PwM

I think your doing a wonderful job Tracy with the income and family size you have.
I agree with others I think it depends where you live. I live in ohio probably not to far from frugalfarmwife. I live a hour away from Columbus and 30 minutes from cambridge. There are all kinds of income here but our town likes to think it is a huge town of 100,000 or more when its size is only 45,000
ALot of companies have laid off and downsized, yet every year we have 2 or 3 companies move in our area and the people who have been laid off, jump for the new jobs.
My dh makes about $52,000 a year but after taxes and health insurance its probably more like $36,000. My income was $23,000 a year, but we both felt I needed to be home since I have some health inssues, and it gives me the opportunity to spend time with my grandkids, parents in law and my own parents. We also hold some softball tournaments which brings an extra $5,000 a year. We usually pay off something or like last year we paid off one debt and put the other half on a truck for hubby. The truck was only $6,000 but he needed it.
I know people who make in excess of $75,000 per year and can't make it, they wanted the fancy house and fancy cars and have cc debt. Then I have friends who make what we have or less and live just fine.
The gas here is 2.84 a gallon but if we go 30 miles up the road it is 2.49 a gallon. Same with the food, the prices here are outragous, but I find ways to feed my family of 3 now healthy. WHen my parents go to another store that has sales (which also is 30 miles away) I go with them and stock up.
I am like you I have always been curious how someone making over $75,000 can't make it. Why they would go and purchase a house that they can barely afford or even a car. I was very dumb financial wise when I was younger. But have greatly improved as years have gone by. I still have some things I need to improve on. lol
But everyone has what they feel they need to make them happy or to impress others.
I just don't need to impress anymore and I like the way I am, Frugal, bargain shopper and all.
I wish you the best of luck but I still think your doing great.

My husband and I live on $8,250.00 a year. That is after taxes, health insurance and his child support payments. We do not recieve a single red cent in any form of aid (food stamps etc). Funny that somehow "we don't qualify"

His ex (what a piece of work she is!) has 6 children by 6 different men. She was only married once, to my poor DH in his younger, foolish days. Of course since she has a litter she gets every form of aid you can imagine, plus all her local churches lining up to help her skanky-self out. Thank God DH only has to pay support for one of her brood, although no one really believes it's even his child.

We make it by doing without a lot of things other people might take for granted. This was our choice because we were, are and plan to remain 100% debt-free. No credit cards, so no CC debt, only old beater cars paid for completely with saved-up cash. (I've never had a car payment in my entire life thankfully) My grandmother left her house to me many years ago, so no rent, or house payments.

My mother became disabled so I had to quit work a few months before we married to take care of her. (that's why I don't work)

Our friends think we're nuts because we never go on vacations, have no cable TV, rarely if ever dine-out. However when we hear our friends moan and groan about their growing debt, we know we've made the right choice for ourselves.

So, yes I do understand the occasional frustrations when you hear people who bring home 3-5 times more than you have to live on complain. It's not always easy to remain objective in that situation. I just try to remind myself not to compare because not everyone has the same priorities. Some people want all the bells and whistles and &^* the consequences, my DH and I want zero debt.

FrugalWitch.... now you are an inspiration! Share some of your tips, trials and tribulations! I would love to hear them!

P.S. We too pay CS for 2 of my hubby's daughters with only 1 more year to go, God willing. Then his ex-skank can stop bothering us, it's like a dream come true.

Frugalwitch, more tips, more tips!

JUst wondering.....about the child support payments that seem to bother some of you.....

I am not trying to sound mean here, but I do not receive child support because my exhusband turned into a bum. But I cringe at the thought that if he was paying child support, (which is his OBLIGATION), his girlfriend or wife would have a problem with it. The man owes me 47 thousand dollars in back child support, and if he would just pay HALF of his court ordered child support, it would help out in ways that no one can even imagine. My children get everything that they need, because I will do without whatever to ensure it. But they dont get to play sports, or do ballet, or any other extra curricular activities other than Girl Scouts, because I cant afford it. They only get to do Girl Scouts because I am a troop leader, so their dues are covered by my volunteer time. I know that may seem trival, and it is not a need, but it sure would be nice to be able to give them a chance to have a competitive edge for athletic college scholorships when they are older.

Treeluva...Amen sister! I get child support from my exhusband. Until 1 year ago he was only paying based on an income from when we divorced over 15 years ago based on his being unemployed. Long long story short, I took him to court last year and got the child support amount that I was entitled to receive. The thing that infuriated me was that his wife showed up at court, not my ex, but his wife! She attempted to tell the judge a long sob story, and the judge basically told her to sit down and shut up! I know there are ex's out there that pay their fair share and contribute to the raising of their children and thats great! But, I agree the new wife, gf or whatever to be upset about having to dish out the child support????? I guarantee you that the amount being received in child support isnt making me rich! I could go on and on, but I won't. I too cringe each time a comment is made about it, I know I don't know the situation, but the money isnt a gift, its being used to provide things for the kids, and yes that does include the house payment and car payment and food at mcdonalds on occasion! Sorry, please understand that this is not directed at anybody on this board, I just have alot of anger on this topic!

Child Support can be a touchy topic with many. I received it and my present dh paid it. My ex always acted like I was getting a gold mine each month. I always had a separate checking account just for the child support. So one year I kept track of all exspences for the boys and at the end of the year I sent him a copy of all that was spent. He never said another word and each year after that he took the boys clothes shopping for school.
My present dh had to pay it and when he lost his job for a period of about 5 months I made sure it was paid. He always made sure his kids were taken care of.
I agree there are some people who need a wake up call and need to pay to help support their kids. There are some that when they divorce think they divorce the kids also and that just isn't so. I don't know what anyone could do to make sure that these men and women who pay the support to understand that they need to be responsible.
That the money thats paid, can make a difference in whether the kids can play in sports, take music lessons, give you extra to put away for college, or when the time comes a car to drive for them. That clothes and food can be exspensive.

I spend around $20,000 a year for absolutely everything. Taxes, everything.

I used to make $50,000+ a year. Then the corporate takeover and company-wide layoffs. That was 2 years ago. Very few jobs in my area pay over $20,000 - if you can even find a job.

Thank goodness I spent money on things that last - not just on what was cheap. I bought a car that gets excellent mileage and is known for needing little maintenance until 300,000 miles. I bought high quality work shoes and purchased multiple pairs of them. (I'm hard to fit.) I bought solid quality appliances. I purchased quality coats in classic styles. I have zero debt. I did not succumb to the temptation of buying a house with a high mortgage. I still have some savings left.

The point I am trying to make is that people can live on very little but only if they have a good infusion of cash once in awhile for the expensive stuff: the "infrastructure" or "capital" purchases. Many times the answer to money problems is to discover how to increase one's income. Getting special training to rate higher pay, switching jobs, starting a home business, moving to another town, whatever it takes.

I have decided that I will never again put the security of my income into the hands of one company. My new business opens in July. I am looking forward to making more money again. I will still live frugally but the new income will go straight to retirement savings - and to the purchase of a puppy!

"It's less important how much, as it is how does a person manage it."

This is so true....as my wise old papa said:

"Anyone can make money, but no one can keep it!" :laugh: The crazy old goat is right too! :laugh:

By accident - my bf saw my bank account statement online while I was working on budgeting (we dont live together). He dared questioned me on why I 'let' him pay half, most or all of my gas for the wknds that I do travel to see him, since I had so much in my account.

Not that I should have to explain but I told him flat out that I've learned to stop spend and just save. I am not working therefore I shouldnt be spending. I was stopping old habbits (a coffee here when out, a coffee and bagel there later on, treats for later tonigh, a new book or bath product etc - all binge shopping). I did clean my place up a lot, sold some items, started using the library again and really learning to be frugal - with a lot of help from this site.

He just guffawed at me and called me cheap and joked that I wanted him to be my sugar daddy. I flat out told him:

'Sticks and stones buddy, Im the one whos unemployed and able to buy groceries and the occasional meal out for both of us.'

So now each time I have something new - hes always asking me how I managed to save up for it. I tell him no lie, all those coffees/treats I dont buy anymore and each penny I pick up off that sidewalk is how. Plus I shop 90% from the clearance/discount racks/stores and I really think hard and evaluate my purchase. 9 times out of 10 I wont truly want it, thus putting it back and saving for the ONE thing I really DID want in the longrun, which is what hes questioning me on. :laugh: Go figure!

Tracey, you're making ends meet and making sure your kids dont go without. You're doing a great job!

My dh and I make a good income but I help my sister out a LOT. Thank God dh is ok with this. She doesn't get ANY child support for her three kids, and she would not be able to make it without my help.
I bought her a house five years ago so her kids could go to my school, 2 are special ed. and wanted to make sure they were getting every bit of help they deserved. and they have.
She pays rent. some. sometimes.
but it doesn't equal the amount of the mortgage. and I pay the utilities because I don't ever want them to be shut off. My wonderful sister is not known for being the most reliable when it comes to bills.
So, even though we make pretty good money and do not have much debt (aside from the mortgage on her house and student loans) we don't have enough for a house of our own, well, not one that we would want.
Here we are in our little apartment while they live in a fairly nice house.
Someday, though. We will be frugal and watch every penny that's left. and once her kids are out of school I am selling the house, then we will get one of our own.
But I'll still be frugal, and watch every penny, even then.

Dear Tracy,

I like to visit this section of FV because there is so much good information here about money management and getting down to basics. My husband and I actually are very comfortable financially -- not wealthy, just comfortable -- but we've worked hard to get here, and want to make sure we stay that way, and I find that reviewing others' stories, seeing their tips, and reminding myself of what's really important in life is a tremendous help.

For us, it's really more of a Simple Living thing. We left the suburban lifestyle in the Mpls/St. Paul area in Aug and moved to the Black Hills, where there isn't so much money and the people are a heck of a lot friendlier. (It's a heck of a lot more beautiful, too!)

I do realize the fact that we have money put away gives us the luxury to have seemingly lofty opinions, but please know that we banked my salary for a couple of years and lived on his, watching everyone around us buy big screen TVs, huge cars, fancy vacations, and so forth while we lived more simply. We invested that, bought a house, used that to move to a bit bigger one, then sold that and moved here (that's the skeleton version).

Like you, we watched people around us making probably half of our household income (with two people working) consuming so much more than we did and complaining constantly about debt. We just shook our heads.

Now, we're in a rental house. We were supposed to be moving into our dream house next month, but his company (he's an airline pilot ) declared bankruptcy last fall, a month after we moved here, and we decided not to build on our land after all, even though we knew they'd come through it (and they have) because we are far too boring financially, and there was no way we were going to risk our precious land.

We'll start again next month, and will hopefully be in our house this time next year. The good news is, we've had an extra year to share, and we now have absolutely zero debt, since we don't even have a mortgage!

We've always been boring with money: we don't live the pilot's lifestyle, don't have the fancy houses and cars and stuff, because we just don't care. But that's also why we weren't scared beyond believe about the strike (okay, worried, yes, but desperate, no), because we had some money put aside.

You, Tracy, obviously have your head on straight about what really matters. I know I was blessed to stay home with the kids the great majority of the time (working occasionally when other strikes or furloughs threatened), and am now working very part-time because a job teaching writing at a local college literally fell into my lap (an hour a day -- and my youngest is 11, so that helps a lot!).

There was a time I stood in front of a pop machine with a quarter in my hand and wondered if I could afford it.... and so didn't buy one! Things will get better, especially for someone so determined as you.

God bless you on your journey!

Mary

Another thing to consider is how much of someone's income pays for goods/services and what percentage pays interest. I pay my ccs in full every month, so every dollar I spend is for something for me/ my family. If I carried a balance, then some of my outgoing money, would be for nothing, KWIM?

DH and I have lived on about $20,000/year then went up to $70,000/year and now will be (in two weeks) back to about $20K/year. When we were on $20K all our money went toward rent/food/utilities. When the income went up to $70K we both went back to school and paid for tuition out of pocket.

As margery said, its how you deal with the money that is important. I live in a big city where nearly everything is quite pricey, but I know why I live in this type of setting (I can do without a car and use my bicycle to get around).

I used to have similar feelings as yourself. For example I considered anyone with a mortgage payment to be quite fortunate - at least they have a home ad can claim deductions in mortgage interest on taxes. But the grass will always seem greener if you keep wanting it to seem greener. So as I don't know everyone's specific circumstance I don't get envious. HTH

Hello-

I saw this thread and was interested-first -my hat"s off to you frugal ladies! I applaud you for your' ability to live on and within means.My DH and I struggle very much on our income of 34,000 when especially he was on workmans comp for 7 months and we made a third of his salary.We are 30, 000 dollars in debt which went up from 18,000 while we were unable to make CC payments and lost our credit counseling due to failure to send funds.I am hopeful for the future because to be any other way would be too dificult, though for a time I was pretty pessimistic,sometimes I still get down,anyway good luck to you, I can relate,I hope to be out of this debt someday.


Patty

I want to second the comments of many of you ladies and say that age (or at least maturity) makes a big difference. DH and bring home a decent amount now and in the fall when he starts teaching we'll be doing quite well. However, when DH wasn't working but in school full time, I was in my keeping up with the Jones phase and ran us into considerable CC debt. DH and I will be making around 65,000 / year but we will struggling financially because I was an idiot! On top of our mountain of CC debt we have DHs student loans. At least now we have the tools to bring our selves out of debt. Our goal is 5 years! I cannot wait! It's in large part due to the tips and inspiration I get from this site that will make it possible!:wave:

Tracy,
I am new here (started today) but I wanted to answer your question. We use to make $100,000.00 a year a few years ago. Then hubby received a call from the lord to fulltime ministry and his yearly income fell to 27,000 a year more than 66% difference. We went from blowing alot of money to almost nothing to live on in a matter of one week,with a 700.00 a month mortgage payment. we are still in the same house, making the same payments but with a much smaller budget.

Its true to say "Its not how much you make, but what you do with it" we get by very frugally :) Hubby just finished bible college and is now working there and commuting 2 hours each day so we now have our house up for sale to move closer.....so I think for me the more dispensable income I had, the more we spent. now thats near nothing if anything..........we have nothing to waste (which as I look back, we wasted alot) I have learned a very valuable lesson from this and now look forward to staying frugal so I can prepare for the future and alos help those in need around me (especially single mothers trying to raise there children alone)

here is our monthly bills on the income we make:

Mortgage-$700.00
electric- $75.00 to 100.00
garbage pick up-$15.00
gas $500.00 (this has come from savings which has not been depleted almost)
phone $115.00 (this includes hubbys cell phone & Internet service)
CC #1 $80.00
CC #2 $95.00
water bill $45.00
car insurance (4 cars, we have two children in college) $200.00 per month
groceries for family of 5 per month $400.00 (this includes puppy food,washing powder ect)

as you can see we have about 200.00 spendable income leftover each month (50.00 per week) usually goes to some emergancy that comes up (like opening the pool this month, it cost 50.00 for chemicals and we had to get a seal for the pump) its always something to buy

don't feel like your the only only one, I think you do real well....And I am proud to say we dont do half bad for a family of five (3 teenagers) 19,18 and 15 year olds..and were paying our house payment of 700.00 a month to boot on 27,000. a year ((GOD IS GOOD))

Tina ><>

I just added it up the other day, all three of my sis's families makes more than our family. One sis's hubby has made over 100k already this year, so put him at the 200k yearly mark. Another sis told me her hubby's two week paycheck was over 8k. It fluctuates, but he still averages good money. Combined put them about the 120k a year mark, easy. The last sis has been doing very well with her own business and combined with her dh's income they should be around the 140k range.

We're in the 68k range. I could get pretty bummed about it if I sat and compared. Just imagine what a person could get done with 2-3 times their present income? Man, that would get exciting!! Yet.... all of my sis's are in tons of payments. Payments for this, payments for that. All that awesome income and not really anything to show for it, just bigger better payments really. A ton of it gets blown, too. It's hard to get out of that spend-what-you-make mindset. They are all three living it, I can see that now.

This saying is so true: it's not really what you make, it's what you are able to keep. Everyone's got different levels, cost of living fluctuations with income fluctuations compared to your geographical area. But really, for me, it all boils down to 'spend less than you make', regardless of what amount that is. :)

when dh (then db) and i got our apt, we were just out of highschool, both making about $6/hour, and he was getting ss from the death of his father, and thats what paid our rent.... then he turned 19 and the payments stopped... then i lost my job.... then he lost his..... we were making just about NOTHING- what i could pick up babysitting, and what he made doing occasional work for his godfather who own his own flooring company... it was all we could do to pay our 1/2 of the rent (had to get a room mate) and get groceries and keep the phone turned on...when we got some cash we would go to the corner store and put most of it into a money order, with just enough left for a few groceries...(i felt bad for the landlord, we were paying the rent with like 8 money orders, lol) we got our power cut off, then switched it to another name, it got cut off again, anf we got a new carrier..... it was really tough times.... then he joined the army... we're making decent money, dont have to worry about rent or utilities, just phone and internet, and car insurance, and a couple of things we're making payments on (less than 100 a month) and we still struggle sometimes.... were still under that 32000 mark usually, making a bit more right now, since dh is deployed and his money is tax free, but not much.... its defenantly about spending what you have.... we were completly broke, but we survived, and i honestly dont know how we did it..... and i pray to god i never have to do it again

My very first post! We used to make $28K, but now that I am working we will be closer to $40K this year. We are a family of 8 and our mortgage payment is $1077 per month (and this is about right for our area - we could not rent for less than this as most landlords would not rent to us due to family size.)

So, yes, I understand how hard it can be, especially when you have mountains of debt like we do. We qualify for all kinds of gov't programs (like WIC, food stamps, etc.), but we choose not to use them at this time. We do not have medical insurance (and it is not available through either of our jobs.)

Family of two, mostly one income aside from small student loan refunds. We've been living on an average of 12K for the last 6 years.

I have friends who make three times as much as my DH does yet are always poor mouthing. I know that they have a higher mortgage, cable tv, two car notes, college debt, and they also pay out big bucks for thier kids to be in various activities.

Yes My Beloved Husband is the Main Bread Winner(Brings in the Money) from Working. We usually live off about $30,000 a year not more than that because of Insurance that comes out of his paycheck .We First and Formost Pays Tithes to God . When we pay Tithes he blesses us far and above what we could have hoped or even asked for. We then have a Mortgage that we pay and in the Mortgage is broken in up with PMI and Escrow accounts so our Mortgage is Paid as well as the Rest of our Bills. What is left over we use for Groceries , and Gas. There is hardly any Entertainment.