I STRONGLY believe in breastfeeding, and have never planned to do otherwise for my children. However, lo and behold, I am having an EXTREMELY difficult time with it. Little Oliver is SO big (11 lbs and 4 oz at birth) that he requires about 4oz of milk every two hours, which I just do not produce. My milk didn't come in AT ALL until day 7, so we had to use a supplementary nutrition system w/ formula and a nipple shield for the first week, and now he won't latch to me at all without the nipple shield (it also doesn't help that my nipples are flat and he has nothing to latch onto). I'm having to bottle feed in order to get him enough food that he stops dropping weight. His pediatrician is worried. :(

I feel like a terrible mother, I just want to cry. I'm trying so hard to get him enough food, and I know that breastfeeding and breast milk is the very best thing for him, but I just can't satisfy him on it, especially since he won't latch.

I'm seeing a lactation consultant again on Monday. This is the 4th one I've seen. I'm at my wit's end. Every time I try to nurse him I just end up in tears because he wails and screams and won't latch and he doesn't trust me to be able to get him enough food anymore. I feel so inadequate. I hate what previous illnesses I've had have done to my body; they seem to have made it impossible for me to be the kind of parent that I want to be.

Any thoughts or advice?

Breathe. Give yourself a pat on the back for working so hard to provide your best to your new kiddo. You are a great mom for working so hard.

Breastfeeding, though it may seem the most natural thing ever, for alot of women simply doen'st come naturally. It didn't for me, and for many of my friends. Even "seasoned" breastfeeders may have trouble with their new babes.

My advise would be to relax as best you can at feeding times. Have a glass of water in reach, and take it slow. If he won't take the nipple readily, try hand expressing some milk and rubbing it around the areola. Then the taste will be there and it will give him the "oh, there it is, that's what I want" response. Perhaps that will get him to latch more. If you can, invest in a pump. Increase the demand on your breasts and they will (barring health problems, etc) produce more. Supply and demand isn't just for economics anymore when you are a b/f mom.

Cut out iced teas, sodas, etc and any diuretics. anything that would cause dehydration can cause adverse reactions in feeding supply too.

The pump would come in handy for the SNS too. You can fill the sns with pumped milk.

There's techniques to use for flattened or inverted nipples apart from the shield, talk to the LC and your doc too. They miht have suggestions for that. I know there is something i just don't remember where i saw that info.

I'm so sorry you're having such a rough go! You are NOT a terrible mother. You are a wonderful, committed mother and I commend you greatly for making such great efforts to give your baby the best food! I'd like to offer some help, if I can... In my work as a doula, I assist my clients with breastfeeding for several weeks postpartum; I've taken Lactation Educator workshops, LLLI member, etc.as well as having breastfed my boys for 4 years (and not without problems! ;)) Ok, so, credentials aside, there are a few things that caught my attention. You say your milk didn't come in and you used a supplement for the first week - was this right from day 1? Or after a week of low supply? Were you told to do so based on baby's size, or that colostrum wouldn't be enough, or that you simply wouldn't be able to produce enough? Please don't take these questions in the wrong tone, they are just some common myths that I find my clients have been told, and are often the basis of their low supply issues that lead to problems.

Other thoughts: did you try using a breastpump to extend your nipples, before using the shields? You could give that a go, if you haven't; just pump a little until the nipple is extended, and/or maybe until you get a let-down, so that when baby is put to breast things are a little smoother going. Shields can sometimes cause supply issues, so they must be used with caution and many moms can wean off using them after a few days or weeks. I would recommend seeking out an experienced LLL leader in your area if the next LC you speak with doesn't offer to help you with a solid plan to improve your situation.

I'm unclear on what you are bottle feeding him now, to prevent weight loss. Is it expressed breastmilk, or formula? A big problem with using formula to supplement is that you are basically killing your own supply by removing some of the demand. If it is pumped breastmilk, that's great, but know that a pump simply doesn't stimulate supply as well as the baby himself would. Relying on pumping heavily in the newborn period can also mess with establishing a good supply.

Things to help increase supply: Eat oatmeal daily. Take fenugreek and blessed thistle capsules. If that doesn't give you enough of a boost, get a prescription for Domperidone (if unavailable in the US you can get it from Canada). Buy yourself Dr. Jack Newman's breastfeeding book (his Domperidone protocol is in there, and can also be found on the 'net). Don't go on any hormonal birth control. Make sure your thyroid is OK. Try a nurse-in with baby: take baby to bed, as much naked skin contact as possible, and try to nurse nurse nurse and do nothing else for about 24 hours. Nurse or at least pump during the overnight period, as this is when your prolactin levels are best stimulated. Make sure baby is put to breast at the FIRST signs of hunger, not when crying (a very late sign of hunger!) - the more hungry baby is, the more frantic he'll be, and thus latch won't go well, and the bottle is an attractive, easy option. Try latching baby when baby is really sleepy; I know several moms that had great luck with baby finally latching well in that state, when all other attempts were difficult.

I really wish you success in your breastfeeding relationship. I truly hope none of my questions or comments came across the wrong way; there are lots of things to consider that I may not have realized or weren't posted about your situation. The first three weeks are the hardest, no doubt about it. Please continue to seek help until you find the right person! Also, please feel free to PM me with any questions you have, or ask them here and I'll do my best to help more if I can.

"and he doesn't trust me to be able to get him enough food anymore."

I really hope you don't believe this statement. As much as you want to tell yourself that he doesn't trust you that's not what it is at all. You're projecting your insecurities about it on him because of his reaction... which is crying.

I went through kind of the same thing. I breastfed my babies for only a month each. It's because I kept getting mastitis-- and very badly. At one point I was on 2 different antibiotics. I was told that I could keep nursing but when the plugs finally released they were bloody. I wasn't going to let them drink that. I felt horrible. So much so that I not only talked to a lactation consultant but also a psychologist. Things will get better and as you see your baby grow and learn (with or without breastmilk) you'll know that everything is fine and regardless you've given him as much as you possibly could and he did benefit from that.
:)

I don't have any advice, but I just wanted to give you cyber hugs. :grouphug2 :grouphug2

big hugs! I agree with birthgeek!
With my C-Section baby, I didn't get milk in until day 7 but we didn't supplement at ALL. Once my milk came in, she was ravenous LOL - I did have to feed her pretty much around the clock for the first 6 weeks or so (on demand) - which ended up seriously being like every 45 minutes.

Everything I've read (oh and Kellymom is a GREAT online resource!) suggests that mom doesn't supplement at all and takes cues from the baby before supplementing.

However this ends up, please know that you're a great, concerned, and hard-working mama and you're doing a great job! I am so glad to read that you're seeing some LCs - hopefully this new one will have some tips for you!!

Hang in there, mama!

What size was Oliver at birth? Did you have gestational diabetes and is your sugar under control if so? Definitely test your thyroid. The suggestions made are good ones. I had to go on domperidone for my second child although milk was plentiful for my first and I am now tandem feeding my toddler and baby.

Relax - you do what you can do for your baby. Ask any new mother - there is usually somehting that has to give a bit. I planned on cloth diapering my second child, but between injuring myself and dealing with her illness, I did not (I am for my third and very happy about it).

Pump, pump, pump as much as possible. Stay hydrated. Eat well. Sleep when the baby sleeps - you are probably exhausted. Have you ever had any other health issues (asthma, joint pain, digestive issues, etc.) You mentioned previous illness - if you are incline to tell us, what was it? You may be having a food intolerance (or the baby is) that you do not realize. My daughter's asthma was caused by cow's milk passing through my breast milk. If you have a history of autoimmune disease or you are noticing your child spits up with breastfeeding or has colic/abdominal pains, you might want to try an elimination diet on yourself. Geting milk out of my own diet not only helped to clear up my daughter's asthma (and mine), but helped me to wean off domperidone. I was able to sucessfully breastfeed through my third pregnancy and as mentioned am still tandem breastfeeding my 8 mos old and my soon to be 3 year old (we tried cow's milk again and it only succeeded in making her sick).

When you do breastfeed, finish off by pumping an extra ounce if possible. What kind of pump do you have? I have an electric pump which is highly rated, but does not work as well for me as my AVent hand pump. I have easier let down with the Avent and the type and quality of the pump can defintely affect hos much you pump. For example I can pump ~4oz in ~10-15 minutes on the handlheld and only 1 oz on the electric in that time.

Are you still taking your prenatal vitamin?

I had to sleep with my middle child so she could nurse frequently. You could do this as well.

Anyway, congratualations and best wishes!

Ani, I had a very similar experience after the birth of my dd. Like you, I was very certain I wanted to bf my dd and in fact didn't even have a bottle or pacifier on hand at home. I had gone to the b/f class at the hospital and was set to go to my first LLL meeting the day after dd was born (she came 4 weeks early, so I didn't make it)!

Anyway, my efforts at nursing in the hospital were nightmarish. It just did NOT come naturally or easily. I had flat nipples too and, according to the lactation consultant, my dd also had a really difficult time latching on because of the shape of her lower lip and chin. So it was a bit of a double whammy. We did the shields and the supplemental system with the tubes and everything too. It was a bit ridiculous frankly. But I REALLY wanted to nurse, so I kept trying. I also started pumping in the hospital so that dd would at least be getting some colostrum (the lactation nurses suggested this). Anyway, after 4 days in the hospital and still not having any success at all, I went home with a breast pump. I was set on trying to pump so that dd could have breast milk, even if we couldn't nurse.

Well, pumping was a total nightmare for me, too. Dd was of course eating every two hours and I was a complete wreck trying to fit 20-30 minutes of pumping into the schedule after each feeding. I was only sleeping like a half hour to 45 minutes at a time. I was having to supplement with formula because I of course wasn't producing enough milk. I was miserable, and every feeding became something I dreaded, rather than the bonding time that it should have been. I was so focused on trying to nurse that I wasn't looking into my dd's eyes during feedings, stroking her, cooing, etc. - all the things that, in addition to the nutrients in breast milk, are so critical to the bonding and brain development.

Anyway, with a TON of tears, I finally abandoned the whole pumping thing when dd was about 2 weeks old. I was SO upset and felt exactly how you describe feeling. It is a terrible to feel like you can't do what is supposed to be the most natural thing - nourish your child. I felt like a freak of nature who wasn't "good enough" to be a mom. I felt bad about it for a very long time. In fact, dd was in the hospital for reflux when she was about 10 weeks, and I remember being in the hospital room with her watching the breast feeding channel crying and crying. I remember seeing this woman in a white nightgown with perfect hair lovingly nursing her baby. I thought, if only I could have nursed, maybe dd wouldn't have struggled with reflux so much. Ugh! The reminders of my failures were everywhere in those first couple of months.

Anyhow, I know some people might think I just didn't give it enough of a chance, and it's entirely possible (or even probable) that it might have worked out if I had just had better lactation advice, or if I hadn't had a c-s, or if dh had been more supportive (he wasn't). However, for me, I really think it was best to quit because it had gotten to the point where trying to live up to the ideal seemed to be doing more harm than good. For me, once I let go of trying to nurse, I was able to focus on really nourishing my dd not just with food, but with love, cuddling, etc.

I really, REALLY hope it works out for you, because I know that's what you want, and it is what's best for Oliver. But I just wanted to share my story - not to be discouraging, but hopefully to help relieve some of the pressure you're probably feeling. We love our babies so much and want to give them the best, however, there is a LOT of pressure on moms today to breast feed. However, there is nothing to feel bad about if you have to supplement with formula, or even eventually switch to formula entirely. It is just not the end of the world.

Again, I really hope nursing "clicks" for you and Oliver soon. In the mean time, don't beat yourself up over the fact that nursing isn't going perfectly right now. I have heard many people say that it really does take a lot of time for it to work, and you've gotten some wonderful advice in this thread. However, until it "clicks," be kind to yourself. You are a WONDERFUL mom who is trying her very best to do the best thing for her baby and it will all work out!

Big hugs to you. Don't feel like you are not a good mother because you are having trouble breastfeeding. You are doing the best you can and that is what makes you the best mom! I used an electric pump in the hospital with my twins and it really made a difference in my milk supply. My twins ended up on formula anyway but my younger two I breast fed for a year and the other for 10 months. If it doesn't work out this time it is not for lack of trying. If you have another one, try again it may work. My third daughter was a pro at nursing, on the other hand, my fourth had the most difficult time latching on and I almost gave up until one day she just got it. Best of luck. Nancy

I also feel that if you are stressing about it and not just enjoying the precious time with your baby then it isn't worth it. If you try and try and it is not working, take a deep breath, go get a bottle and enjoy your baby. Your baby has had some breast milk and babies do just fine on formula. Pat yourself on the back, you just went through a lot and you deserve it. Happy belated Mother's day.

((((Huge Hugs))))) Take a breath, listen to the excellent advice given here, and keep in mind that your own hormones are all over the place and that makes everything seem so big and horrible. I've bf my kids, but not without issues. Whatever the outcome, your love for your baby will out weigh any problems.

Wow, I don't even know what to say. You women are so wonderful to share your experiences and expertise with me. I will try to answer all of your questions.

My own medical history is not terribly complicated, but could be the cause of these issues. I had severe anorexia nervosa for many years, which I was told could seriously affect my ability to conceive a child and for my body to support the baby after conception. Thankfully I was able to conceive and carry him to full term, but had a c-section because he was SO big and my frame just could not support a regular birth. Other than anorexia nervosa, the only health issue I've had is asthma. It is not severe though, and I've learned to control it without much medication (I hate taking medication). I did not have gestational diabetes, and am perfectly healthy other than some leftover affects on my heart and digestive system from the eating disorder.

Oliver was 11 lbs 4 oz at birth. The doctor finally concluded that he had no idea why he'd grown so big, but that he was perfect and healthy and just a beautiful baby boy...just big. The first time I tried to nurse him we discovered that my nipples are flat and he wouldn't latch at all. They brought me in a pump, and I tried pumping for 40 minutes. I didn't get a drop. I then began a regiment in the hospital of pumping for a few minutes (not getting a single drop), putting him to the breast to try to suck, him not latching, putting on the nipple shield, him latching to that, and us feeding him through the SNS, then I'd finish every feeding by pumping for 30 minutes on each side. At that point we HAD to use formula. He was so big and so hungry and I wasn't getting a single drop of my own milk for him, so he would just scream and wail to be fed. There was no "sticking it out" until my milk came in with him.

I left the hospital on day 4, still doing the pumping/nipple shield/SNS routine. I rented the same pump that I'd had at the hospital. I didn't get a single drop until day 6. At that point, I was only getting about 20 ml of collostrum for a couple days. It was like I was a whole week behind or something. I would use whatever I could manage to pump in the SNS, and then supplement with formula. Finally my milk started coming in more and more, up to about 40 ml. I started using just the nipple shield, and quit the SNS so tha he could learn to suck directly from me (through the shield). He was SO cranky. He turned into the angriest kid ever. We took him to the doctor again, and he'd lost down to 9 lbs and 15 oz. The doctor told us that he was so big, he needed 3 or 4 OUNCES of food every 2 - 3 hours, not the tiny bit that I was getting. So...what could we do? We started supplementing with formula again, after every feeding.

The point we're at now is that I'm producing about 60 ml of milk every few hours, which I was pumping and feeding to him so I could monitor the quantity, and then making the rest up with formula. I saw the lactation consultant today, and asked her what she thought I should do. She was baffled that my milk had been so slow to come in (and was still coming so slowly). She watched him try to latch to me (he wouldn't do it, it just ended up in him wailing after about 10 minutes of trying), and then she watched him latch with the nipple shield. He latched perfectly with the nipple shield, jaw dropped and all. She said that as long as he was latching properly, it wouldn't hurt my milk supply to use the shield. So that's a small victory there. He loves the shield, so at least I can use that. As far as feeding him, she suggested basically what birthgeek did, to feed on demand as often as he'd eat for a few days. So that's what I've done today. I've sat on the couch with him and let him suck, alternating sides, as long as he would. He would take breaks to sleep, but he ended up nursing most of the afternoon. Unfortunately, my supply has been completely dry for the last hour or so, he's not getting a single drop, and he's wailing frantically. The lactation consultant said that when that happened, give him a bottle to calm him down again, and then start nursing again as soon as there was anything there. So, as I'm typing, daddy is giving him a bottle. It breaks my heart, but him wailing breaks my heart more.

So...it's still not going great, but I'm encouraged that he's latching to the nipple shield perfectly, and I'm hoping that spending as long as possible nursing him will help my supply. Nursing him nearly constantly isn't leaving any time for pumping though. Any thoughts on that? I don't know if I should still trying to be pumping, or if pumping is just stealing the milk from him that he would be able to get himself otherwise.

Thank you all for your support, your experiences, and your help. I don't know what I'd do without you guys, especially now. I feel sad for those of you who have experiences similar to mine, as I fully understand how it just makes you want to cry, but it makes me feel better to know that I'm not alone.

First, that's wonderful that he is latching with the shield. It is definitely progress. Second, has Oliver shown any signs of colic (just wondering)? Third, after the birth of Hannah, my little fairy girl and her being diagnosed with severe asthma and quite ill with weight gain issues, me having milk supply issues, etc, etc, I discovered through her that my own asthma was a side effect of me using milk. I have switched to rice milk and a calcium supplement this time with no supply issue (which amazes me since I am feeding two). The anorexia nervosa, asthma, and digestive issues all suggest to me underlying food sensitivities from my own experience. This may sound hokey to you, but I have been trying to do literature research in this are for the past couple of months and believe it to be true. I can help you with an elimination diet for a couple of weeks (do not do long term). My whole family has food issues and they tend to affect each person differently.

I've just looked at a couple of articles in PubMed. HAve you had your iron levels tested? The following link is an older study indicating low iron levels can affect milk - please check out http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?db=pubmed&cmd=Retrieve&dopt=AbstractPlus&list_uids=7960001&query_hl=8&itool=pubmed_docsum

Pumping is good if you can, but your baby is likely better than any pump. If you can manage it with Oliver, I would try lying down with him and getting him to nurse or suckle while you rest if possible. When my daughter was having issues, the public health nurse suggested I do this and it helped a lot and helped me to get a bit of rest as well. Mind you rest is hard to come by when all your are concerned about is your baby, but it is needed.

Finally you are doing a great job!

So, as I'm typing, daddy is giving him a bottle. It breaks my heart, but him wailing breaks my heart more.


Oh, honey! You're breaking my heart!! I remember that feeling so well.

I stopped BFing my oldest after 6 (miserable) weeks -- we just couldn't get the hang of it. Every time the child cried I was convinced that it was because he was starving, and I was a bad mother who couldn't feed him adequately. I think *I* cried as much as he did. Oh, who am I kidding? I cried MORE. Formula feeding saved my sanity, and I'm not ashamed to admit it! But then when #2 came along, she BF'd for 18 months, no problems. #3 is going strong BFing at almost 11 months.

Breastfeeding can be a great experience, but it's only one of many ways that you'll care for your son. Please don't think of it as a "success" or "failure" thing. Providing him with a happy, healthy mommy is priority #1. You're doing the best you can, above and beyond the call.

So take care of yourself! Be kind to yourself! Be proud of what your body has accomplished in the last few months!

You've gotten some great advice (from people far more qualified than I). So I can only add -- Oliver is so lucky to have a mama who loves him so much!

Best of luck, and lots of milky vibes!!

My little princess hits 2 mos. this week and my experience has been similiar to attorney mom's so far. Even with pumping constantly and lactation consultants I haven't produced more than 15 oz per day and that just is not enough for her, so, I have pumped about 2 oz every 2 hours and mixed it with formula, now though I can't even get that anymore, and with going back to work next week I am giving up pumping completely. We do what we can, baby needs a sane and balanced mommy as much as baby needs breast milk, don't let it take over your whole world.
Good luck---Kellie

I'm feeling you sweetheart. I have flat nipples as well. I have 4 children and the last three have had only breast milk. I pumped exclusively for 11 months with my second, and fed it to him in a bottle. It can be done. My 3rd baby would only latch with a shield. She nursed until she was 2 (with a shield). Now finally, my fourth finally got the hang of it and he is nursing without anything. What I want you to know is that however you need to do it, it is okay. If they get breastmilk from a bottle, through a shield or straight from the tap, at least they are getting it. And if it doesn't work out, it doesn't work out. Give yourself permission. You are a great mom and you need to remember that.

Hugs,

Whitney

Hi Ani - it's great to hear that Oliver's latching better with the nipple shield! That sounds very promising. I hope you can get the supply issue worked out. Hang in there and good luck! Just remember, the first few weeks and months of motherhood are really hard, and you are doing a GREAT job! Take care.

I soooo feel for you Ani. I had my little boy last June and was all prepared to breastfeed for a long time. Well, I have flat nipples as well and we couldn't make him to latch, it was like he was trying to suck on a balloon and it really ticked him off. The lactation consultant at the birthing place wasn't helpful at all, she discouraged the use of a nipple shield so I didn't try it until many days later when DS would not touch it anymore. So I ended up pumping for 10 weeks, only getting about 2 oz out from both breasts together a few times a day. I went to a different lactation consultant about it, they tried a various things but DS would never have the boob, he got so angry for just seing it. :( Anyway, him not taking my breast has been the most difficult thing for me to deal with ever. And now I'm just babbling..

It's great that your son takes the shield. All I can offer is encouragement, trust in youself and everything will be ok no matter how things turn out. he is still YOUR lovely baby and you're the best mommy. :hugs:

Ani, I haven't been around much lately buy I wanted to let you know how much I've been thinking of you and what a great mom you are. I had similar trouble in the beginning but on day 9 for me it was like all of a sudden Owen read the literature and knew exactly what to do. However, around 4 month he started getting hungrier and hungrier, and I'd nurse him for 3 or 4 minutes every 45 minutes - I just couldn't make any more milk. I tried more frequent feeding, fenugreek, thistle, pumping - it just wasn't working for me. I can remember very clearly the night we packed Owen up in the car, screaming, while we drove to Babies R Us so I could pick out some formula. I felt like a horrible mom - I couldn't even feed my own baby. And - not to knock on any one organization in particular - all those stories about moms that woke up every hour and pumped for days on end and did all these heroic things to maintain their milk supply really made me feel like such a bad mom and loser for not having done enough. He also got his first cold the week after we switched and I just cried thinking that I've cursed my baby to a lifetime of illness because I couldn't breastfeed him anymore.

Anyway - it took about 3 months, but I eventually got over it. This may seem weird, but a few months ago I read an article about some new parents that were vegan and only fed their baby soy milk and juice and he starved to death. So I kept telling myself that at least I wasn't going to starve my son to death, and that he was at least getting all the vitamins and nutrition he needs with formula.

And - I know I needed several people here on FV to tell me this over and over for the first few months - YOU'RE A GREAT MOM! acidcookie once told me that only bad moms don't care - so just worrying shows how much you're a good mom.

Old medicine, but a couple of decades ago when I was having trouble, my doc made me drink a beer a day (and I HATE beer!!!!) I loved my baby enough to try it, and it seemed to help, and I cut it down to a half beer and it still seemed to work. Also, there are downstream advantages to the nipple shield - most babies seem to go through stages of biting, and it HURTS when they do, so maybe you'll be slightly protected when Ollie hits one of those stages.

Also, you know any breastfeeding helps develop his immune system - you don't have to be the sole source of food. So just keep doing what you can, and know that it is helping.

Hugs to you!

You are not a bad Mom thats the first thing I want to say! if you were a bad mom you wouldn't be trying to feed him.
MY first 2 were the perfect nursers...#3 however....was a trial and a half. she had a tiny tiny mouth and a slight tongue tie to my large nipples. we didn't fit. so after a 2 weeks of non productive nursing for hours on end and a starving baby I gave her a bottle. it was heart wrenching. but by doing that I could calm down, relax, and just enjoy having my baby! we did figure things out with the help of a really great lactation nurse (who saw me at 7am on a sunday morning).

There are medications or herbal supplements that you can take to boost your supply. I had to go on motilium (domperidone - not sure if its available where you are), to help get the flow going. we successfully nursed til a couple weeks ago.

Hang in there! Enjoy your baby! the time goes so fast when they are tiny....I regret spending the first weeks of her life fretting and worrying. She was mirroring my anxiety.

There is lots of really good advice here from the other ladies.

:)

good luck!

I don't have any advice, but I just wanted to give you cyber hugs. :grouphug2 :grouphug2

Ani,

I'm with Amanda as well and hope everything turns out well.

Thank you.