I had posted the incident where my husband had charged gambling debt on our visa after I had spent alot of time working extra to pay the thing off. As you all know I now have another 6800.00 debt. (6600 now)

I took a second job to help pay down this debt and started that job this week.

We started counseling and this week was our third week of going. I got kinda angry the second week but this third week has made me absolutely furious.

My husband does not want to go to gamblers anonymous meetings, he only wants to go to the counseling sessions. His excuse was he cannot bring me with him to these meetings. The counselor said, "Julie can take you and pick you up but you have to go in alone." I said, "He can just take himself there, drive himself home and take responsibility for himself." I was angry and it was obvious I was angry. At this point I don't have time to babysit him, he is an adult and he didn't have any problem going to the casino by himself.

Yesterday was the third session. The counselor felt that he should join the YMCA to exercise to help relieve stress. Yes I do understand this, I think we both need to 'relieve stress' however he is not the one working the two jobs to pay down this debt. Did she ask me how my stress level was..no. Did she ask me about my feelings regarding my having to work an extra job....no.
I voiced my anger and she really didn't say much.

I am angry......very angry. I am angry because she seems intent on babying my husband while totally disregarding my feelings. I am the victim of his gambling problem. I am the one paying it off and yet he is the one who gets the ohhhhh you poor thing attitude, you need to relieve stress and Julie needs to take you to your meetings. (he has applied for extra jobs and hasn't got one yet)

Now I don't want the ohhhhhh you poor thing attitude what I do want is some respect for my efforts for making this thing right. I am the victim and when I leave these counseling sessions I feel like I have been victimized again.

These two, my husband and the counselor, look at me like I am nuts.

I had so many things I wanted to do and I got slapped in the face with a 6800.00 debt that I didn't even create. Yep I am angry.

My question for all of you is.......don't I have a right to be angry? I don't understand why my feelings on this are not addressed and I am starting to think something is wrong with this counselor. My gut tells me something is wrong here. What do you all think? Please be honest, perhaps I am running on pure emotion and not thinking.

Find another counselor. Seriously. If this one isn't meeting your needs find one who does and don't feel bad if you go through several. Find one for YOU, not necessarily couples counseling.

I went through a lot of depression, etc with my ex. I went to 3 different counselors and they all made me feel even more nuts or trivial or I don't know how to say it. If I was depressed it was because I was a stay at home mom and I needed to get out and socialize, exercise, change my diet, get a hobby... none of them ever asked the right questions or got to the real issues. When we went to couples counseling the focus was all on how we needed to spend quality time together and apart, blah, blah, blah... I could get better advice from the Self Help section at Barnes and Noble. Seriously.

Then, it happened, and I had the most wonderful, understanding therapist help me through a very difficult time. It didn't happen until I was going through the divorce, but at least it happened. Finally, I had someone who got to the heart of the matter and helped me work through things. Amazingly, I've been through some traumatic events, but I've never again suffered depression the way I did in the previous marriage. In part, because my counselor gave me some really great tools that changed my life.

Keep searching for the right counselor. There are so many different styles and techniques. They are not all the same.

You are certainly entitled to your anger. You have every right to be angry. And, if no one else will acknowledge it... you should pat yourself on the back for being an amazingly strong woman and showing that strength through this crisis. This means you can do ANYTHING. You have incredible strength and power that will see you through this crisis and any other that comes your way!

I'd be mad as he!! also :pdoff:. Maybe you could see your a therapist, a different one, without your husband? You should be the one being babied here! Is he actually going to join the YMCA? Can he work additional hours?

Serenity now! :hug2:

sounds like you should find a therapist for individual therapy since your not feeling the therapist you have is helping or validating your feelings.

Yes, it does sound like this counselor is not quite right. They are not all good you know, sometimes you have to weed through them like you would a doctor, hairstylist, whatever. As I have mentioned before I see a therapist regularly for my Borderline Personality Disorder and I have brought my husband to a couple of sessions for insight on behalf of my husband and my therapist. My therapist has always been very cognizant of my husband's feelings and has offered him sessions too so if he was interested. She tries to help me understand why he is hurt or reacts the way that he does. She is working on my life as a whole and that obviously involves my husband. Perhaps you need to check into another therapist or perhaps have a conversation with her in private without your husband, explain your feelings and see what her response is. Then you could go from there. You certainly should not be feeling bad when leaving his therapy sessions. He needs to face what he has done and I might be worng but it does not seem like she is making him do that. Now, that said, he has only been to a few sessions. It can take awhile for therapy to start working. The therapist needs to get to know their patient in order to see what is the best approach to take with them and considering sessions only last 45 minutes that is not a lot of time to delve into deep topics so it can take a lot of sessions to get to the roots of the problems. Ok, so I realize I am all over the map here with my comments. They are a little fragmented, but anyway, my suggestion is to defiantely talk to her alone and go from there. Hope my ramblings have helped.

You have every right to be angry!!!
JMO, but I think you should seek counseling
for yourself on your own. Sessions just for you
so the counselor will focus only on your feelings.
I think this might be a huge help for you.

"he is an adult and he didn't have any problem
going to the casino by himself."

I couldn't agree with you more.
I am sorry you are going through this. You
are doing all the right things. The advice and
support you are getting here is awesome.
But think about the personal counseling also.
All the best.

I completely agree with Carol. I would be really ticked off (those words don't cover it, but I can't say it here). You have every right to feel how you're feeling. Did you ask the therapist where the YMCA money is suppose to come from?!?!?

Contact Gamblers Anonymous and see if they have a group for family members and get yourself there. If they don't look into AlAnon or Coda. Any of those groups should be able to help you let him suffer his own consequences. He won't stop his behavior until he has to do that.

Sorry you & your husband are going through such a tough time. Is going to the casino something you and your husband once did together for fun? Or has he always went to the casino alone? I'm only asking so I can get a better grasp of what lead up to him being in the casino behind your back.

Sometimes people do stupid things, with no idea at all why they are doing them...or they do what we/others consider stupid things in retaliation for being forced into doing something they didn't want to do.

I know all about going to the casino, I enjoy playing the slots it's how I choose to relax for a few hours. I enjoy going to the casino and now my hubby has decided he doesn't want to go to the casino anymore. I would never dream of going alone or behind his back...but, his edict that we aren't going anymore has my undies in a bunch.

Maybe individual counseling would be better for both of you. You need someone to validate your anger, and you do have every right to be angry. But, he needs to figure out why he put himself and you in the position he did.

Best of luck!!!

You have every right to be angry. And every right to be heard.
This counselor seems to be viewing you as the caretaker and not an individual that got sucked into something you didn't create. Find a new counselor that will adress both of you in this situation. Contacting GA would be a good place to start they should have resources availabe to guide you in the right direction.

Julie,

You sure as heck have every right to be extremely ANGRY! Maybe you should get it thru your hubby's head that he is very lucky that you are staying and not kicking his butt to the curb.......If he can't admit his problem I would say he has some more problems and doesn't want to put them on the table, he needs to wake up and smell the coffee.......I think you are giving him more chances than most.

JMHO,
leezza

I agree with pretty much everything that has already been said, particularly the part about possibly finding another counselor. Does your current counselor specialize in dealing with addicts? If not, you will want to find such a person.

Addicts need to be handled in a particular way and gamblers in particular can be very engaging and likable. If you counselor has not had extensive experience dealing with them and does not know how confront the strange and magical world of a problem gambler it is quite possible she could be manipulated by him and then the counseling would serve no purpose. In my experience good addiction counselors are the ones who are not afraid to say very clearly "If you continue to engage in this behavior you will certainly loose your family, job, friends and possibly life. In dealing with addicts one must be able to say very bluntly and clearing what the reality of their choice is without being judgemental. It's not easy and not every counselor is able to do it.

Additionally, it is also very important that the signifigant others in their lives have a very clear understanding of what does and does not help and exactly where there responsibility starts and stops. I have many addicts of various kinds in my family and always the addictions counselors make it very clear that one needs to go to counseling with the addict if possible, but more importantly the loved ones need to go to their own groups and counselors because you need that support.

The bounderies you are going to have to draw if you stay with your husband are going to make you seem like the "bad guy". Until they truly acknowledge the problem and begin honest recovery addicts resent being told no and they resent people who quit living in their fantasy world and insist on honesty and truth. You need a place and people in your life who understand what you are going through and will support you in your decisions. They will help you remember that you are not the crazy or unreasonable person in the situation and show you how to draw bounderies and, as difficult as it is, allow him to make his choice and then deal with the natrual consequences of that choice good or bad.

Believe me I know what you are going through. My mom is a gambler. Just this week I had to refuse to loan her money to fix her car because I know she is gambling and will not go to treatment (which is free in Oregon). She drives for a living and she could very well loose her job if she can't get the car fixed, but I can not give her money and I can not and should not protect her from the consequences of her choices. Like most gamblers she wants someone to rescue her, to do the work for her and make it better. That is why it is so important that we refuse to be manipulated into doing it for them.

Here is a link to Gam-anon. I highly suggest you get to the next meeting you can. It doesn't sound like your counselor is giving you the tools you need to deal with a gambling addict.

http://www.gam-anon.org/

I'll be praying for you and your family.

Christine

1. Yes, you have a right to be angry and this is understandably your first reaction. You have been deceived, and now you, the victim, are paying for it.
2. You also will have to reach a point of moving beyond the anger. One cannot last or function well in anger.
3. To move beyond the anger into a functioning life, you need a credible counselor that meets your needs. This is not the same as finding a counselor that just tells you what you want to hear.
4. Look to Gamblers Anon or other such organizations for credible help. They can help you get directly to the point.
5. Do what you can to reduce your own stress: pray, write, jump up and down......
6. A final thought: perhaps the counselor thought your should take your hubby to the meetings because on his own, he might skip out on them. If you take him, then you know he actually went inside.

You've got a huge burden, my dear, but breathe and take one step, then another......

There is no gam anon meetings in my town. I thought I would look for something online. If their were gam anon meetings in this town I think this counselor needs to go.....seriously.

I want to not pay this debt. I have never in my life not paid a debt in my name but I don't want to pay this one.

I want to hand the bill to him and say figure it out, this is yours and you need to pay it.

I am considering helping him pay off his car and letting the rest for him to pay off out of his money. This means I can take the money from my extra job and pay extra on my student loan and (silly as it sounds) buy my spinning wheel. I would like to learn how to spin yarn. I had money saved for this but had to spend it on his gambling problem.

I want to scream and shout and kick until I can't kick anymore and take care of myself and what I want.

Husband looks at me like I am crazy, but this is what I want. I want to be selfish. I wonder if I have it in me to be selfish?

Thanks to all of you.

there's always options... you have no children, you are a nurse, if you want to move on....you could.

"I want to hand the bill to him and say figure it out, this is yours and you need to pay it"

This is exactly what you should do. We should never try and bail a gambler out of their debt. Ever! None of the money you are making from you second job should go to pay any of the gambling debt. Save it in a separate account he does not have access to but do not pay his debt. He needs to deal with the consequences of his actions in their entirety.

Have you spoken to the lawyer yet? If you are going to stay with him then you need to figure out how to separate yourself from him financially ASAP. Take the money from the second job and get a consultation. It is very difficult to watch someone else tank your credit score and not want to fix it. The problem is, when you are married, fixing it for yourself becomes bailing him out too because all your financial data and responsibility is joined. It's not fair to you and its no help to him.

If, after talking with a lawyer, you find your state laws are such that you can not separate your finances without a formal separation you may want to consider it, unless you have the ability to let him destroy your credit score and then not make any move to fix it.

Christine

Julie, what state do you live in?

Christine

I don't blame you for being angry; and for wanting to take care of yourself for a change. You've been given good advice. I wish you well with whatever decisions you make.

Christine,

I live in Iowa. Thank you for the website. I read everything and emailed them for more information. I really am not crazy am I. I knew something was wrong. Feel free to pm me it seems you and I have alot to talk about. Julie


Thank you everyone for your support and encouragement. There are times through this I truly feel like I am losing it. I know that I can get a divorce and move on. I am a nurse and have a good job. It is just not that easy. I wish it was. I just can't give up on my marraige yet.

I have decided I am going to help him pay off his car. If all goes as planned that will be done in June. Then he will have to pay for his gambling debt on his own. That debt comes out of his money. If he feels he is not ready yet to manage his own money at that time I will manage his money. Regardless that debt comes out of his money. My money will stay in a separate account. It is not the Dave Ramsey way but it is the keep Julie sane way.

I am going to pay off my student loan and finance a hobby I have been wanting to do for a long time. This is for me, I matter and I count.

We have an appt this coming Wed. and I will inform the counselor and him I will not be responsible for this debt. I am also going to ask for separate counseling. Husband can do what he wants.

I am worried because our federal income tax check has not come yet. The state check came, husband did hand it over to me. The federal has not come yet. In the back of my mind I think did he take this, sign my name and gamble it away. I wanted to pay our car insurance for 6 months with this and apply the rest to his car. I hope I am wrong and he didn't spend it on gambling.

The upside to this whole mess and him not having access to money anymore is we are 600.00 ahead for the month of Feb. He was sneaky sneaky sneaky in hiding and taking money to gamble. I have been able to pay down debt.

My big goal is to try not to be so emotional about this and think through things clearly. It seems I have to get really upset to get that kind of calm. The calm to make decisions I call it. All of you help me reach that calm. Thank you

I would see another therapist- myself. Take this with a grain of salt, because I am not a therapist, but you seem to be babying him too (in my opinion.) Why are you working two jobs for bills he created? Why is he not being the man, accepting responsibility, and covering his own financial mistakes?It does not sound like this man has any balls.Let him grow up.He seems to treat you like "mommy".

Annymoll, Please read my last post and realise this is progress not perfection.

Annymoll, Please read my last post and realise this is progress not perfection.I read it. I do not feel differently. You are too dang good for his hide.He needs to get down on his hands and knees and kiss the ground you walk on.Ok, I'll shut up now.

No Annymoll don't shut up. You are saying exactly what I need to hear. I have been too good about everything. It is time I put myself first and then maybe I can get over this anger.

The initial debt (which was ours together)I worked two jobs to pay it off. Alot of times I got four hours sleep between shifts. If I couldn't work as a nurse I worked anywhere as anything. I can't do that anymore.

If my taking care of myself ends my marraige well.......so be it. We'll see how he responds. Living in anger is exhausting, it hurts to the bones and I truly feel sick all the time. I have to take care of myself I just can't do this anymore.

So no don't shut up. Just try to understand this is progress for me and it is not easy.

I was in a relationship one time with a guy ( long before I was married) and he was real controlling and non supportive... seemed there was always such conflict. I was always angry it seemed. After getting away from him, I realized it was me I was angry with...


for being with him and staying around him.
Maybe you;ll find that too, that your angry at you ...... more than him, for tolerating his kaka for so long.

If you are unsure of the federal return you can check online and see if your check has been mailed. If it ihas there may be a way that you can contact the IRS and see if the check was cashed. Just a thought. You can also ask him point blank if he has gotten it yet. So what if he has a hissy fit, he has earned your distrust and he now has to earn your trust. I admire that you are staing and working on your marriage but I will say that if he indeed spent the irs check it is time to seperate yourself from the situation for your own good as well as his. In my opinion he really is not owning up to his problem and this means that it is going to be very hard for him to resist temptation. Especially if he knows you are not leaving and will bail him out. Trust me, I know what a bad spot you are in and I really do not condone divorce (I think it is the easy way out and that if people work at it they can make it work) but this is a little different than traditional marital spats. Also, if he does not get a grasp on the fact that he has an additction it could spill over into another area of his life. For example, he has no manoey to gamble, still has the "urges" that he had before, he could start any other number of addictive behaviors. Not trying to scare you just speaking the truth. Again I am going to say that I think you should speak to his counselor by yourself and voice your concerns and see what she says. I am truly sorry for all that you are going through and I do hope that the IRS is just taking its sweet time to get you your check.

The income tax check did come yesterday afternoon. This morning I am going to pay off the 6 months car insurance and the rest will go on his car. A bill we made together.

I get so angry sometimes I don't think. I suspected the worse and it wasn't the worse. He does have to earn my trust again.

I told him last night I would not be paying that charge card bill. He looked very hurt got teary eyed and I didn't fall for it.
He then agreed it was his bill to pay.

I guess we both are trying to work on this it's just not easy. I get so angry sometimes. But I am all done being trampled over and looked upon like I am crazy. I am a very stubborn person. Once I get truly angry it is a done deal.

Thank you again for the support. You'll never know fully how much I needed it.

Sorry for my slow reply. I haven't been able to get into FV for a while, but it sounds like you have made some good choices while I was gone. :)

It looks like the gam-anon site lists meeting for Iowa. If they are not close go to Alanon. Gamblers and alcoholics share many of the same issues and if you have not gam-anon close then alanon will help you.

Iowa has a hotline and a very good web page listing providers specifically for this problem. I would call the hotline and/or checkout the link below and get set up with a counselor who deals with gamblers asap. Also, if your health insurance covers it, it looks like there are inpatient treatment programs as well.

http://www.1800betsoff.org/where_to_go.asp

You will also want to check out this link and ask the hotline folks about it. Apparently Iowa allows a person to ban themselves for life from casinos and it is non-revokable once a person signs up.

http://www.iowagaming.org/support/media/responsible_gaming/pdf/Self-Exclusion_Form.pdf

Good luck and take care of yourself! Remember, "punishing" an addict or trying to make them prove themselves never helpful, but it is okay to set up whatever bounderies you need to be safe emotionaly and financially. We are always here if you need support :)

Christine

The income tax check did come yesterday afternoon. This morning I am going to pay off the 6 months car insurance and the rest will go on his car. A bill we made together.

I get so angry sometimes I don't think. I suspected the worse and it wasn't the worse. He does have to earn my trust again.

I told him last night I would not be paying that charge card bill. He looked very hurt got teary eyed and I didn't fall for it.
He then agreed it was his bill to pay.

I guess we both are trying to work on this it's just not easy. I get so angry sometimes. But I am all done being trampled over and looked upon like I am crazy. I am a very stubborn person. Once I get truly angry it is a done deal.

Thank you again for the support. You'll never know fully how much I needed it.


Glad to hear you don't have to worry about your income tax refund anymore!!! I hope that things are smoothing out...

wow what a mess Julie . you have every right to be mad. Find another counselor.
wtg girl on not paying his debt on the card. Maybe whebn it sink`s in he`ll more help,or maybe not.
yes do protect your self.

Julie, I am still concerned about the potential for future surprises. I do not know about Iowa, but I do know that in some states you can remain married but separate your financial responsibilities for debt incurred after the date on the papers unless both partners have signed up for the debt (so if you buy a house and you both sign the mortgage papers, then you both have the liability and the equity). I'd suggest finding out whether that is a possibility in Iowa - it might help you rebuild the trust more easily, and might protect you if the trust is undeserved.