Baby, baby, baby...

[strezzed]

Speaking of entitlement-mindedness (Not that thats a term). The rest of the world doesn't exist during the honeymoon period.You are crass. And Jealous. My child is 18 years old. Has none of the issues you state. She grew up w/ children of priveledge. It is incredible to me that's all you gleaned out of this whole post. You are very young.I hope. People grow,people change and so do priorities. If you are half as bitter as you seem, perhaps it isn't the "baby" thats the problem. Family always takes priority over friends anyway.

Who was this aimed at?

[frugalwarrior]

Strezzed, I was worried I hurt you. This was long ago. That DD graduated Tues. I am not as strong as I'd like. I meant giving up seeing friends for a time. Some friends will not understand. We have good friends who did not have children that we have known since high school. We did not understand their choice and they do not understand our lifestyle but we respect each others differences. Now that our children are almost grown we do get together more often. No one is talking about tossing anyone aside.It's just that sometimes two different lifestyles don't work together for awhile. (Ex. people w/ babies or young children often don't have extra money for sitters or going out to eat especially if the mom has left working for awhile or stays home like I did)

[frugalwarrior]

Strezzed, I did not care for lgw's post when I was speaking to you. I was actually flabbergasted by it. i probably should have ignored it.

[CrazyCat]

lgw...wow..you are certainly outspoken.

And also judgemental if you are lumping all parents together. Excuse me...but there are parents who certainly focus all their attention on their children~but Smart parents also realize...that at some point the kids will be gone, and it will just be you and your dh~(or sometimes just you).

I have a 22 and 16 yr old, and they have grown up realizing that their parents go out still. and have a good time. without them. As my kids were in elementary school, they could look around and count the kids who still had parents that were married-On two hands in a classroom of 30 or so. So...when my dh and I would go out,~I would remind them that parents need to be able to go out without their children and work on their marriage.

Yes..I've seen parents like you've described. I've also seen kids like you've described...but they don't all turn out that way

[QM]

...My point is, the rest of the world *does* exist, and I think it's extremely unhealthy to have your entire world circumnavigate around a baby. I understand loving your kid. Really, I do...

But do you really? You would understand if you had kids and could relate to us moms.

[misstina87]

But do you really? You would understand if you had kids and could relate to us moms.

Wow. I think the OP was simply venting that people change when they have kids. And oftentimes, they change in a bad way. I've seen it happen. I've had cousins/friends who've stopped caring about their friends and family members because they are too envolved with their children. And I have friends who are great moms and still make time for their friends.

I find it interesting that some moms say "You don't understand because you don't have kids." Well put yourself in someone else's shoes. If you were childless and your friend ditched you after having a baby, how would you feel? I think the OP has every right to vent. And you know what? I'm childfree and I agree that I don't want to have conversations with my friends about their kids. Truthfully, I don't care that little Susie went potty for the first time. I just don't. I have plenty of friends who are parents who rarely talk about their kids unless they're brought up. Like someone else posted, your kids are the center of your world. But they certainly are not the center of mine.

[strezzed]

this is getting a little too accusatory for me. I understand the reasons for the original OP vent, however things have rapidly deteriorated in this thread (see page 1 replies), whether it's an age issue or not.
I think maybe we could agree to disagree?

[McD]

I think the reason this is issue is so touchy-feely is because it's a fine line for both sides (those with kids, those without) have to walk.

Those of us with kids have to juggle all the responsibilities that come along with having a kid with staying true to ourselves, so to speak. A lot of women can't figure out how to do so and their lives become quickly all about their children in an unhealthy way. For those women who can figure out how to do so, their life is still all about their kids. How can it not be? They've just learned how to manage it better.

I can't really speak from experience for those without children as I had my son very young, but I had friends that basically dropped me the minute they found out I was pregnant and let me tell you it hurt. These were people I had been friends with since I was 4 years old and all of a sudden they weren't answering phone calls or emails. I figure if they were so self-centered that they couldn't put an equal effort into figuring out how to make our friendship adapt then they weren't the kind of people I wanted to be friends with.

But I can tell you that two of my absolute best friends in the whole world right now are women that don't have kids. We have been lucky enough to figure out how to make our worlds, which are drastically different mesh. But the thing is, it takes effort on both parts. Do they want to hear about my frustrations with being a parent? Probably not anymore then I want to hear about their random drunken nights at a bar, but hte thing is, friends listen to one another. Friends are there for one another when they need to vent, to stress, or when they are so stinkin' proud that their kid made a spit bubble or when they just made out with the hottest man under the face of the sun.

But you knew how I knew one of these women was going to be my best friend til the day I died? My husband was in Iraq and I was able to get a baby-sitter for the first time in forever on a Saturday night. My (child-free) friend and I were out shopping, then we were going out dancing. Well right before we got the club, I got a phone call from my sitter that Wesley was running a really high fever and I needed to get home. My friend didn't bat an eye when plans changed and we spent the night at the ER with my son. I offered to call a cab or find a way to get her home but she wouldn't hear of it, because she couldn't stand the thought of me at the hospital all night by myself. Was that what she wante to do on a Saturday night? Probably not, but she did what a friend does...she was there when I needed her and that is all that mattered to her.

It's a two-way street and takes effort on both sides, is all I'm trying to say. Like it or not, these womens lives have changed and they will change as a result. Dropping them completely cold without tryign to fix the situation doesn't help. Reach out to them, explain to them that you love them, you love their kids, but you miss THEM. That's just my two cents, you can take it for what it's worth. Hope things look up for you soon.

I wanted to add that I hope you really aren't so stereotypical that you think all parents give their kids the world and cause them to have major entitlement issues. If so, I think you have some bigger resentment in your life, then just losing friends that have babies. My son is my world. I love him in ways I can't explain, and he is the center of my universe. But that doesn't mean he has whatever he wants given to him or that he isn't being raised to treat others with respect, manners, and kindess. He's 3 but he knows how the world works.

[QM]

MrsMcDowell...You have a wonderful way with words. I couldn't have said it better myself!

Your stories reminded me of something that happened not long ago with my single friend. She asked me if I wanted to hang out at her place while she and her friends got ready to go out to a bar. I don't go to bars, but I visited with her and her friends while they got ready then I drove them to where they wanted to go. Not long after I asked her for a favour...to lend a helping hand at my DD1's 5 year birthday party. She did for about 3 hours on a Saturday afternoon.

When we visit, we sometimes laugh at how the topics flip from 'her world' to 'my world'. We both understand that our lives are completely different from each other, but we make the best of it because we're friends. ...And that's what real friends do.

[madhen]

I have been childless by choice my whole life. Several of my friends (and my sister) have become pregnant and had children during that time. I guess I see a baby as I do any cool and exciting new thing in a person's life. I expect them to be totally absorbed in it (motherhood) for a while, then to find a more reasonable ground upon which we can both relate, with the understanding that the child is now part of their life and should be expected to be a part of any relationship I have with that person. During those first few months of "ooh, look at what a healthy poop my baby made", I just try to be excited for them and tolerant of the baby (as I have NO mothering instincts). I do sometimes mentally roll my eyes, because EVERY parent I know thinks their children are gifted or super-artistic or hyper-talented (and they can't ALL be superstars), but I would no more try to pop their bubble than I would expect them to say something snarky when I tell them that my parrot knows, "Gotta go to work," and says it at the appropriate time every morning.

Some parents do seem to lose their identity and just become support systems for their children. I am not into children's activities, so I do lose touch with those parents who plan every activity around what their child would want to do. But I'm also not the type who gets involved in non-child-friendly activities (not a bar hopper, don't like dancing, etc), so I am usually fine with someone bringing their child along, PROVIDED that child has been raised to respect his/her elders (or is too young to be expected to do so). The one person I dropped like a hot rock was a woman who thought her little boy was a demi-god and who allowed him to be a complete a**hole. (And I haven't seen too many toddlers to whom I would assign that label.) I realized that if I didn't cut off the relationship tactfully, we'd soon cut it off because I'd say something totally appropriate but also totally insulting about her parenting skills. (Happily, she moved shortly after I started avoiding her, so the situation never escalated.)

Ironically, children seem to LOVE me, and babies often find me fascinating and will stare at me non-stop. I have had more than one small child attach himself or herself to my leg and beg me not to leave. Maybe they sense that I'm not going to gush and coo at them and appreciate being treated like human beings instead of puppies.

[McD]

Ironically, children seem to LOVE me, and babies often find me fascinating and will stare at me non-stop. I have had more than one small child attach himself or herself to my leg and beg me not to leave. Maybe they sense that I'm not going to gush and coo at them and appreciate being treated like human beings instead of puppies.

Oh my gosh, somewhat off topic, but it completely drives me nuts when people talk baby-talk to children of any ages. I hate it hate hate it. How can you expect a child to learn to speak intelligently when you sit there baby-talk? UGH!!!!!

[QM]

...How can you expect a child to learn to speak intelligently when you sit there baby-talk? UGH!!!!!

I completely agree. I've never understood why parents would make up baby words and say them to their son or daughter.

[zakity]

Yep, I agree. You are only supposed to baby talk to them for a few months (something about their brain development). After that, you are just harming them.

My parenting theory is that I am raising "adults", not children. I don't treat my guys like "children". I treat them like adults with a few allowances for the fact that they are children. I also expect others to treat them the same way.

As for the original topic in the thread, yeah, the baby thing does drive me buggy. Some people just can't seperate their lives from their children's lives.

One of my best friends in real life has an 8 month old. Her whole world right now is the baby. But, she also realizes that she needs time to herself. Her husband's job is ending at some point and her husband is working for a friend in the evenings and on the weekends to make some extra money. We take the baby so that he can work in peace. She has commented several times that I am not going to want to go places if she has to take the baby all the time or has apologized for having to take the baby with us when we go out. Since I know that her DH is trying to make extra money, I am fine with it and will actually suggest taking the baby with us.

[MommyBliss]

MrsMcDowell you put it so well, I really couldn't say it any better. If you chose to be child free, that's great for you and some people just know that is best for them, but I don't like the whole tone that some childless people reflect onto people who chose to have children. My children are my first priority and I will not apologize for that. Those first few months of their lives are wondrous, but it even gets better as they get older. I'm not going to apologize for not having time to spend with friends. My family comes first just like I'd expect theirs to, children or no children.
As I paint my youngest daughter's toes right now I feel my life is very enriched by their very presence. I have my own hobbies and interests, but my life is enriched by sharing in their passions.

[elphie]

To the OP- give your friends time. You expressed that they have had babies in the past year. The first year is wonderfully overwhelming. They are basically taking a crash course in parenting and probably don't have much time or energy for much else at this point. Its hard to switch it off. I recently read a wonderfully witty article about how our kids need us exponentially less with each year of age- as newborns they need us about 23 hours a day and the extra hour is ours to do frivolous things like sleep, shower, eat, go to the bathroom. Gradually as you move toward the one year mark you gain another hour, gaining that hour gradually over the course of each year until they graduate from college at around 24 when you get you're entire day back.

It was funny but is also not too far from the truth. My kids are 9 and 10 and within the last 3-4 years I have found myself with more time for my own interests and am reconnecting with some people I'd lost track of. I have always missed those people, they were never unimportant to me. However their well being didn't depend on me so I had to prioritize.

Think of it as if your friends have moved to another city you've never been to and don't really want to visit. You will call, get together on occasion but their day to day lives will be so unfamiliar from your own that it will be difficult to find common ground. Someday they are probably going to move back closer to home but they aren't ever coming all the way back. You just have to decide if you are willing to wait, if this person is worth the wait, until they can meet you halfway. Some friendships will be worth it, others won't and there is nothing wrong with knowing that and being honest with yourself about it.