Ramsey's Rant

[Ceashels]

If you didn't get the chance to watch the July 1 show you might find his rant titled "bass fishing and butt scratching" very interesting.

You can find it on his website http://www.daveramsey.com/tdrs/index.cfm/Daves-opinion Just click on hear the call.

-----------------
Disclaimer: I don't expect all Villagers to appreciate his point of view. I do expect that if you write a comment that it is a reflection of your own opinion. I do expect that if you respond to someone elses comment you keep it courteous. Thank you.

[Greebo]

I loved it.

Some of you will hate it.

But I hope it will give everyone some food for thought on the politics of "fairness".

[nodmicks]

I loved it too. I'm all for the same tax for everyone regardless of income. I don't think my very successful, very educated, very driven siblings family should pay more taxes % wise than I do just because they make tons more.

[blitzen]

Is he suggesting a flat tax is the fairest way to handle tax paying?

His rant is a bit senseless...he talks of the other guy (the butt scratcher) not being as hard a worker...and that his hard-working friend shouldn't have to pay more in taxes to support the less-hard working butt scratcher. But what social programs is the butt scratcher taking advantage of? There's no connection between the guy who makes more than the guy who makes less in his rant.

Like it or not, in a civil society, we all have to work together sometimes. Of course there are moochers, but there are a lot of hard working people who sometimes need an extra hand making ends meet. I'd gladly let my tax dollars go to help people buy food or pay rent. Isn't Dave all about Jesus? Wasn't Jesus all about helping people?

[nuisance26]

Wasn't Jesus all about helping people?

~But Jesus didn't take money and give it to the Roman authorities to distribute to the poor. His message wasn't one of financial redemption but of spiritual redemption. The people of our age have a very warped idea of what "the poor" are as compared to "the poor" the Bible admonished us to assist. I hardly think God wants me to help other people buy food for families who won't turn off their cable to buy their own food. The needy described in the Bible are the truly destitute; the homeless, the diseased, those with no resources whatsoever. Americans are free to assist the destitute at any time by their own free will by donating food, money or time to any number of shelters and food kitchens.~

[Greebo]

Is he suggesting a flat tax is the fairest way to handle tax paying?

His rant is a bit senseless...he talks of the other guy (the butt scratcher) not being as hard a worker...and that his hard-working friend shouldn't have to pay more in taxes to support the less-hard working butt scratcher. But what social programs is the butt scratcher taking advantage of? There's no connection between the guy who makes more than the guy who makes less in his rant.

No, that's not the point. The point is against the butt-scratcher thinks its fair for the harder worker to pay a higher percentage of his income to support all the things the Government does, regardless of who benefits. We all pay for roads, for military defense, for welfare (ugh), for medicare, etc. Forcing those who earn more by the sweat of their brow to pay a higher percentage is a double whammy. 10% of 350k is already more than 10% of 50k by a factor of 7. When you then say that the 350ker has to pay 25% while the 50ker only has to pay 10%, now you're taking that multiplier up to seventeen times what the 50ker pays in real dollars.

[DebtFreedomFighter]

~But Jesus didn't take money and give it to the Roman authorities to distribute to the poor. His message wasn't one of financial redemption but of spiritual redemption. The people of our age have a very warped idea of what "the poor" are as compared to "the poor" the Bible admonished us to assist. I hardly think God wants me to help other people buy food for families who won't turn off their cable to buy their own food. The needy described in the Bible are the truly destitute; the homeless, the diseased, those with no resources whatsoever. Americans are free to assist the destitute at any time by their own free will by donating food, money or time to any number of shelters and food kitchens.~

That was a brilliant post, btw! I just wanted you to know!

[Jamauk]

I like Dave more & more everyday!

Thanks for posting that Ceashels

[Darlene]

Loved that rant & it's one we have often in this house. We support free enterprise & entrepreneureship. It takes hard work & sacrifice to be successful & to punish those who work and strive harder and have more is wrong. Want more, work for it.

[MTS04]

That is an awesome rant. I totally agree with him. Nuisance26 your response was great and spot on.

[Greebo]

I'd like to know what qualifies as "hard work"?

The money earned isn't equal to the hours worked, or the labor involved, its tied to the value of the work being done and how readily available a replacement is. Skills which are easy to replace have less value than skills that are hard to replace. That's inherent in a capitalist society - you trade your skills to others in exchange for what its worth to them.

If that isn't enough, you can do one of four things: work more hours, learn better skills, make your money work for you, or complain about inequality. Three of the four will improve your lot in life, but of the four only two will do so without causing you to wear yourself out early.

[Jamauk]

Well, I guess I'll have to agree with the person who said the rant was senseless. Not necessarily because what he said didn't make sense...to a certain degree I will agree with him that somebody who earned more shouldn't necessarily have to pay more. The senseless part for me was the hateful tone and the lack of action in his solution to the plan. Change the channel? Walk away? That kind of passive agressive handling will get you nowhere. Maybe voting opposite of the guy will work and maybe it won't. The simple fact is that you cannot tax the have-nots anymore for they have not any more to tax. While the haves may pay a higher percentage...they also actually have something to pay. Is it our government's responsibility to play Robin Hood? I don't know, but it is certainly nothing new. They have been doing exactly that for many, many years regardless of which candidate or party was in office.

I think Dave's theory about changing the channel or walking away is that if no one is there to listen to this absurd idea of our "moral obligation" (I can't remember the words he used) that the idea will eventually fade away. The more people that are there to listen to the liberal talking heads the more power this message will have. If those of us that don't agree with the Robin Hood theory walk away, well, that shrinks their customer base.

Just because the gov't has been like this for years, is that justification for keeping it this way? It might be broken, but its always been broken, so we don't need to fix it?

Its not even stealing from teh rich to give to the poor ~ yes, a lot of our tax money goes to the entitlement programs ~ but its also used for things we all benefit from (education, roads, military, etc...) I don't care how hard Person A works or how hard Person B works, I don't care what their income is....Person A pays 15%, then Person B should pay 15%.

It needs to be the same percentage across the board. Even with a flat percentage tax, the wealthy will always always always pay more dollars in taxes.....so the liberals can sleep well knowing that the rich are still paying more and the conservatives can sleep well knowing that its a fair way to divy up our "moral obligation".

I really really really don't understand why this is such a difficult issue for people to grasp.....

[Greebo]

Personally, I can't understand how anyone could accept the idea of those who earn more paying a higher percentage as being justifiable unless they have either:
1) Boxed themselves in to never be able to succeed (victim mentality); or
2) DEPEND upon people being self-boxing (politician, government official).

I'm speaking only for the USA here - those of you in socialist nations (or worse) have your own problems, like class structures.

IN the USA, however, we have no class structure other than that which evolves from economics, and we have no restriction upon who can move into and out of a class, other than your own determination. (Note, NOT ability - determination!) You don't need academic credentials - plenty of millionaires are C students who employ A students. You don't need special talent - most millionaires keep what they do simple.

You just need determination - and by determination I mean a willingness to do whatever you have to do to get ahead, and not make excuses, not blame others, not sit on your duff whining about how "the little man can't get ahead".

Are there people out there that really need help? Yes. How many of them really need help, however, because they lived life carelessly and without a plan and ended up desperate, vs. how many did ALL THE RIGHT THINGS and life just beat them down anyway?

If there's one place in the world where your birth, your background, don't matter, and the only thing that does is your behavior, its the USA. 90% of millionaires in this country are first generation. They weren't born to it, they earned it through hard work. If they've done it, why haven't we?

So I just can't imagine how anyone who hasn't already given up and decided they can't do anything to improve their own life would, in this country, support the idea of those who earn more owing more.

[Greebo]

15%?? According to the wikipedia there are only 22 countries who have a flat tax and all of them are higher than 15%. Most of them considerably higher.

The % isn't relevant - Jama was just picking a number out of the air as an example.

[McD]

This link explains the flat tax fairly well and does indicate that flat tax percentages are generally below 20%.

http://www.heritage.org/Research/Taxes/bg1866.cfm

Wikipedia generally isn't considered a very reliable source as it can be edited by anyone at anytime.