New to DR, husband, and questions (LONG)

[Clarebel]

Hello. I am glad to have found this forum. Can I vent for a minute or ten? I need a little advice about starting FPU:

1. Should I start if my husband isn’t on-board? Will the FPU process help bring him around or will it make the rift between us worse? After you read below, you may recommend therapy, not FPU
2. The class I’m supposed to start tomorrow has 130 people signed up. Is that too large to be effective?

The class size question is easy enough : )

As for the husband issues, please let me bore you with my personal story & all the dirty details.

My husband and I have been married for 10 years. We are 30(me) & 33(him). We have two kids – 11 & 4 y.o.

I stumbled across Dave a couple months ago. I realized I wanted to start on Dave’s program when multiple things converged:

- My husband bought an RV in the spring. He had talked about it for a couple years, & although I am anti-RV, I said he could do it when the van & his business credit card (he’s self-employed) were paid off. He didn’t wait & bought one off E-bay literally without my consent.
- We talk about moving out of the burbs to the country, but I realized we would never have more than our current home equity. I don’t want $3000/mo house payments.
- Admitting that we have a really bad money/marriage situation. My husband started buying big-ticket stuff without my buy-in during our first year of marriage. He’s even lied about buying stuff. He doesn’t think it’s a problem.
- The faith-based program appeals to me right now. With all the financial turmoil in the marriage, bringing the “big picture” out may help.

Our financial picture looks something like this:
Medical credit card: $1,100
Credit card: $4,000
2008 GMC Acadia: $31,000
Business van: $3,100
Business credit card: ~$10,000
RV: $23,000
Mortgage: $158,000 with 17.5 years left on note
Cash emergency fund: ~$1000

I make ~$90K and he makes ~$45K. I currently contribute 8% to my 401K, and with my company match, that works out to about 18%. My husband isn’t doing anything right now. I am putting $15/week in the bank for my kids.

I am working on the debt snowball, and plan to have that medical credit card paid off by February with $350/mo. I’ll start on the family credit card next. My husband declared that he would have the van paid off by the end of the year. We have been spending $1-2K cash/mo on trips & big things for the house, so he should be able to make the van payoff without any other lifestyle changes.

I am just not sure that he will ever be on board with getting rid of debt & saving. I took the van payoff as a positive sign, and he sold a 4-wheeler last week. Then I found out he was looking at another 4-wheeler on Craigslist. I’ve really had it, and while I know you may all be thinking that he can’t be to blame all on his own, it’s almost the case. I’m a tightwad by nature, and my only splurge has been that stupid car. I try to be cheap to accommodate his bad habits. As you can see, we’re a mess.

Any advice or comments that you have for me is much appreciated! Thanks for your support & congrats to all of you who are succeeding on the plan.

[Greebo]

Hello. I am glad to have found this forum. Can I vent for a minute or ten? I need a little advice about starting FPU:

1. Should I start if my husband isn’t on-board? Will the FPU process help bring him around or will it make the rift between us worse? After you read below, you may recommend therapy, not FPU

If you and your husband aren't on the same page about *wanting* to change how you handle money, then you will find it all but impossible to succeed in your goal. If he will at least come along and check it out, it could be worth a try.

2. The class I’m supposed to start tomorrow has 130 people signed up. Is that too large to be effective?

Basically you watch the video tape and there's a Q&A period, as I understand it (not having gone yet ourselves) so no - not too big.

Having read the rest of your post, however, your husband is not ready, and you will be fighting an uphill battle. Your husband is acting like a little boy, not a man, and putting his wants above his responsibility to his family.

You have much bigger problems to address first. You can't fix the family finances while he's busy breaking them.

Seek counseling - WITH or without him - but preferably with him.

[rachelj]

My dh and I did FPU about 2.5 years ago. We both have always been very frugal so it was never about getting the other one "to change".

FPU: yes there is video time and then you split into small groups and discuss. There is homework every week. Yes, I think that going thru the class can be a big eye opener but be ready for your husband not to want to hear it.

Feel free to ask any questions.

[Clarebel]

Thanks for the quick responses!

So it sounds like the class will still be a good one. . .as long as the small groups are small enough, anyway. And it sounds okay to drag my husband along. I understand that this might not work right now, but he needs to hear it from somewhere else. . .otherwise there is no hope for this childlike behavior to stop. What's the rule - you must hear something 3 times before you remember it. Maybe it's 5-7 before you accept it.

We have talked about therapy off & on many times. It's hard to commit to because we're committed to each other. . .you know, people we know tend to use it as a last resort before the Big D. It's worth taking another run at.

Sooo. . .what's the best approach for talking to a prefers-to-stick-his-head-in-the-sand spouse? I always feel like the out of the blue conversations are confrontational. The stomp around the house until he asks me what's wrong & then yell at him approach doesn't work either. When communication is what needs addressed, it is amazingly hard to get the conversation started.

[Cricketlegs]

He needs an eye opener.

Get a big write on board.

Write down both take home pays and add them

Write down all the debts--add them up

Write down ALL the bills, include everything from groceries, utilities, insurances on all the toys, dr bills gas for the toy and cars and etc.

Leave no expense off.

Add them up.

Subtract.

Bottom number circled.

How does it look? What is in the savings account.

Then go to www.whatsthecost.com and run all the debt at the current payments and interests and add the totals of how long you have to pay for it all,the interest down the tubes.

Plan on sending the kiddos to college...well take it from me, it'll cost a pretty penny.

Now prop it up somewhere where he has to see it multiple times a day.

The numbers don't lie, you can get away from them. The only way to change them is to pay and make them go away and not take that route again.

I feel really bad for you. Your dh is taking you for a ride down a street you don't want to go down. You are going to have to do something.

Best wishes to getting this resolved! Stick around the village.

I would suggest that you start socking cash away somewhere only you know about. You have children to consider.

[leezza]

Here goes if you can keep as much money separate from him as you can.....I know it's not nice to hide things but it sounds like you are having a major emergency right now.

You may want to start a hidden savings account in only your name and don't tell him about it.

He is really ruining you and your kids future......doesn't he care about your childrens security????

Does he get it that the economy is in trouble right now????

I think you have some major problems and he needs to get a clue.

JMHO,
leezza

[Greebo]

With all the debt and big ticket items that he added without your consent...

... who is paying the bills?

Is your name on the debt? Did you put it there, or did he (illegally)?

If the debt is entirely in his name, I'm thinking its time to set up your own bank account, put your income into it, and provide for your children from that. If you're paying for his toys, stop.

[Buckeye5]

Good advice Greebo, that was a great idea.

[got2run3]

Hi, I haven't posted here in forever but here it goes, my hubby was so not on board when I started and it was really hard to stick with the plan. You both have got to want the same goal. So we start, then fall off the wagon and start again, we are starting again for the 3rd time this month. Hopefully we can stay on track this time, actually it is hubby's idea this time. I think he finally saw how stressed I was with trying to deal with everything .. It is going to be a tough 3 months but once we get to February we should be hitting the snowball real hard. I know about the confrontation thing, I would hold things in and then blow up and we would end up in a major fight. I decided I wasn't going to fight over money with him anymore just do what I could, so I quietly got him on board. We found some land, great price, great location, he was the one that actually said "Dave Ramsey said if you can't pay cash you don't need it" So I took that as my cue. Good luck getting him on board, maybe try to lead by example.

[Denvergirlie]

In order for this to be truely successful you both need to be on the same page. Sounds like you are not even reading the same "book" at this time, much less on the same page.

Can you both sit down and just talk. No pointing fingers, no anger, just expressing what you want from life.

Do you have shared goals? What you both want from the future and what that might look like. Because right now it sounds like he wants to play and you want to be an adult.

Hopefully he will go with you to the DR classes and might get inspired, but it's going to come down to the two of you working together as a team to make any real true progress.

good luck

[Denvergirlie]

Sooo. . .what's the best approach for talking to a prefers-to-stick-his-head-in-the-sand spouse?

Schedule a time to discuss, Sunday night at 7pm we are going to sit down and talk all this out. The kids have a movie to watch and we are going to sit down at the table and discuss everything as adults.

You and him need to schedule it together, if he doesn't like 7pm on Sunday have him come up with some alternative times and decide on a time together to talk.

Set a time limit, we will be done at 9pm and if it's all not talked out by then, we can reschedule a follow up time to do so.

No anger. No you did this and I did that so let's duke it out. If he made foolish choices in the past (RV, etc) now is not the time to blame him. You are just as much at fault as he is because you were not working together as a team. You can point out how the RV in straining your finacnes and not getting you to a goal, but your lack of working together as a tem is a equal in terms of both of your failures.

[larabelle]

Hmmm in my humble opinion and no I am not married...but in my humble opinion it is going to be really difficult to accomplish your financial goals when your husband is not onboard.

[tmffv]

It is really tough when your spouse isn't on board. Read enough of these type of forums, and you'll find that you are far from alone. DH and I only recently starting commiting ourselves to living on a budget/more frugally. At first it was tough to get him really on board with what I wanted to do (he's the free spirited spender, I'm the nerdy, number crunching tightwad) but I had to step back and realize that things were not going to work out unless I involved him as much as possible and did not nag/freak out over every little thing (not that I'm suggesting you are, it's just something I noticed about myself and needed to work on)

Looking back in the past few months, I've noticed a lot of small changes in dh that have added up and made a big difference. Whenever I get frustrated about something he buys or does, I remember the other things he's done to help our family save money and it makes me feel better bc I know he is trying.

Split your accounts if necessary, you are lucky in the sense that you make the larger income and I'm assuming can take care of most things without his. Just make sure you aren't financing his toys. Hopefully your dh will see the situation for what it is and decide to get more serious about it. If/when he does do something right, try to focus on that and let him know how much better it makes you feel.

[misscas]

This is exactly the situation I try to avoid when dating. I feel so sorry for you but you probably had a good idea he was a big spender while you were dating. Marriage will not change anything and will only make matters worse when he has more money to play with. I talk about Dave Ramsey on the first date and getting out of debt. I softly probe for more inforamation to see if this is someone I would be compatible with or someone to pass over. I actually broke up with someone who had quit paying his bills because he was looking to be bailed out by getting married. Sorry honey, it won't be me saving your sorry butt!

[fixer]

I would like to echo all of the sentiment put forth so far. Your husband will have to want to change before change will occur. I wish I could tell you how to make this happen, but I can't. I am lucky that my wife and I have always been on the same page when it comes to money. The hardest part is that it takes awhile to get traction and see the fruits of your labor. Our greatest enjoyment is seeing the bank statement, 401K statement and mortgage statement(or lack thereof) each month. I have spent my day off servicing my wife's car. I figure I made $300 for my effort. I did not do it because someone told me to, I did it because I should do it. This is the place your husband needs to find.

The biggest problem I see is his buying big ticket items without talking to you first. This is an issue of trust. I think when it gets to a point of hiding purchases or money there is a big fundamental problem in the relationship. I wish you the best and may God bless.

Skip