Dave Ramsey in the Trash Bin

**Holding Pattern** · 09-20-2009, 10:24 AM

I can't believe it! BIL got married. They were both deep in debt and have made numerous and repeated comments about how "lucky" we are to be debt free - even though they do & have (had, they separated already but that's not the story) much more than us.

So a part of their wedding present we got them a Dave Ramsey special... books, dvd, and a thing for her kid to learn. Word came back very quickly from MIL that they were deeply offended and trashed the whole thing. Evidently budgeting is for those who have money and you can't budget if you don't have anything extra. Oh, and the people who call into the show all make 6 figures so of course they can pay off debt.

In the end, I'm more miffed that I spent the money and they threw it away... at least they could have given it to Goodwill or Salvation Army.

**MaryCarney** · 09-20-2009, 10:53 AM

WOW!!!

Better start practicing now for A) when they come crawling to you for $$ or B) when they swallow their pride and ask for advice or C)biting your tongue when they file for bankruptcy

**ilovechocolate** · 09-20-2009, 10:58 AM

I guess it's like an addiction---until you admit you've got a problem, there's no problem.....

Good luck to them. They sure will need it.

Stand firm when they ask for money, because they probably will!

**frugalwarrior** · 09-20-2009, 10:59 AM

You know where to throw there requests for help in the future. Wow.Wow. Some people not oly take the cake, apparenlty they wastte it too.

**Ms. Clear** · 09-20-2009, 11:00 AM

No offense, but I can see how someone might be offended by receiving such a gift. It might make them feel like you were looking down on them.

If someone doesn't want to hear it, they don't have to. It's not your problem. Believe me, I know people who could really benefit from a money lecture, but it's not my business to tell them. They have to figure it out on their own.

It's different if people are asking for advice or just chatting about personal finance.

**madhen** · 09-20-2009, 11:07 AM

I have to admit, I wouldn't have trashed it, but I wouldn't have appreciated it, either. That was probably more of a gift you would give after talking to them and determining if they wanted to go that route to try to resolve their debt. Not something they should open up without you being there to explain, so it doesn't appear so judgemental.

I agree that they shouldn't have trashed it (heck, if they are that deep in debt, they should have SOLD it), but I'm more wondering about your MIL burning a track to the telephone to make sure you knew!! Sounds like someone who is trying to kick up a bit of family drama!

**Holding Pattern** · 09-20-2009, 11:11 AM

Originally Posted by MaryCarney

WOW!!!

Better start practicing now for A) when they come crawling to you for $$ or B) when they swallow their pride and ask for advice or C)biting your tongue when they file for bankruptcy

#3 has already happened...

Originally Posted by Ms. Clear

No offense, but I can see how someone might be offended by receiving such a gift. It might make them feel like you were looking down on them.

If someone doesn't want to hear it, they don't have to. It's not your problem. Believe me, I know people who could really benefit from a money lecture, but it's not my business to tell them. They have to figure it out on their own.

It's different if people are asking for advice or just chatting about personal finance.

I wouldn't take offense to that. I put on my big boy pants before coming here, lol. And I come here for the brutal honesty.

We thought it would be a good idea because on previous occasions they had expressed interest in being debt free...and in retrospect, we assumed that it would be seen as a healthy start to a new life together. They always wanted to talk about us being debt free (at the time we were 100%, now have a small cc & atv) and we'd talked about Dave before. And one of our justifications was that we would have been thrilled if someone had given us that head start...but we're horses of a different color.

After reading some of the responses here I'll chalk this one up as 'boy, we meant well but didn't think it through, I guess..." Ah well, live and learn.

**scottp999** · 09-20-2009, 11:33 AM

Originally Posted by Holding Pattern

#3 has already happened....

I was going to say, I bet #3 happens. People will go that route before they will come to friends and family to ask for help. The problem with #3 is it allows them to never deal with the root cause of the problem.

I have a sister who has declared bankruptcy years back, and any way you measure it now, she is insolvent, negative networth, and too proud to even call and ask for advice.

She is one to think that if she works hard, she deserves it and uses credit to buy it if savings are not there. She puts on a happy face to family when her husband is telling me they are missing CC payments and have racked the CC's up again.

She will probably file bankruptcy again, just a matter of time. Maybe she will "get it" somethime.

**monkeywrangler71** · 09-20-2009, 01:08 PM

I'm sorry, but I think that is a really offensive wedding gift, regardless of their circumstances.

I don't know what the rest of the gift was, maybe it would be okay if it was a nice bookshelf with one DR book tucked into a library of other helpful books on a variety of topics of interest to a newly married couple(recipe books, home repairs, relationship/childrearing, etc.) Otherwise, it's just rude.

**Holding Pattern** · 09-20-2009, 01:52 PM

We provided for part of their honeymoon as the rest of their gift. They were going to go regardless so we decided to help keep some money in their pocket short-term and 'teach them to fish' per se.

**Greebo** · 09-20-2009, 02:52 PM

You can't push water uphill. It was a generous gift that went to thankless hands. A shame, but nothing to be done about it but to live well. Do not waste any further productive resources on those that squander them.

**mauimagic** · 09-20-2009, 03:06 PM

I can think of a lot of people who would have been thrilled with your gift - as well as being to chuckle about the appropriateness of it too!! Live and learn, you certainly meant well. Now enjoy the rest of your ride to frugality!!

**mateosbaby** · 09-20-2009, 04:23 PM

Putting myself in their shoes... I'd be offended, as well. First of all, it really is an odd wedding gift. Usually it's something lovey-dovey or if it is a book, it's something that outright says it'll keep you together as a couple or something similar. Money matters, unless included with many other "self-help" books or as a chapter in one all-inclusive book, really aren't "wedding-ish," KWIM?

Second, did they have a gift opening? If they did (like my husband and I), then you have a lot of people there with you, many of whom you aren't all that close to. Opening a gift like that in front of all those people, it kind of puts it right out there in full view that you are not good with finances, have debt (probably a lot of it), and may even be on the verge of bankruptcy. I think everyone there would see that you are trying to help, but it also just put a very private matter out in public.

Third (and this is completely hypothetical), maybe they "feigned" shock, outrage, offense, etc to throw people off. Throw it away now; after everyone leaves, fish it out of the garbage. It could happen. Honestly, if I was that interested in the books and got it as a gift in front of lots of people, I may have done the same thing and then gone "fishing" later on.

I hope I didn't offend, just wanted to put a different take on the issue.

**Nishu** · 09-20-2009, 04:43 PM

Well, to be honest I'm kind of split.

Yes, I can see how people would take offense to it.

But you did give them another gift in the form of paying for their honeymoon, and to me that makes a big difference. If you had given them nothing but the books, I'd be a little miffed, too. The honeymoon would have been ample, the books were a bonus.

When you take into consideration the fact that you've discussed DR with them and they've shown interest in being debt free, it sounds to me like a really thoughtful present.

So all in all, I'm going to have to say they were being unappreciative. IT was a thoughtful gift and it's a shame they were so snotty about it. As far as I know, pretending that you don't need help and getting snotty in response to advice about your finances is really classic behavior among those who can't manage their money.

**pollypurebred39** · 09-20-2009, 05:06 PM

I think your heart was in the right place. Too bad for them that they don't see the wisdom in your heart felt gift.

I echo Madhen in the family drama bit.