Dave Ramsey is half right

**RickyBobby** · 02-01-2011, 06:12 AM

MNDTRP,

Dave Ramsey say that a person has to have a million dollars free and clear in net worth before they can buy a new car.

When a regular person buys a new car they get the same pride of ownership that Dave Ramsey enjoys with his lake house and all of his cars. And his rental properties and his mutual funds.

When you buy a new car you get about 60,000 driving miles out of it for only the cost of oil and air filter changes and the peace of mind that you are driving a reliable vehicle that will start when you turn the key and not screw up on you. If Dave Ramsey says that you can buy a thousand dollar hoodie whoopie car at a car sale that would run I wish that he would get a little more specific and direct me to that garage sale. He cannot do that because the thousand dollar car the starts and runs does not exist any more than the "good" mutual fund that returns 12%exists. I am not a hater on Dave Ramsey but I am just calling him out on his things that he wishes were true but are not true.

Dave Ramsey has a good head on his shoulders and a good heart and a good soul and I appreciate all of that but it still does not make the operable thousand dollar garage sale car and the buyable 12% annual growth mutual fund exist in real time life.

**Greebo** · 02-01-2011, 06:31 AM

Originally Posted by RickyBobby

I have listened to the Dave Ramsey advice and made a written list as he says and figured that if I make a 262 dollar payment against my stupid consumer debt each week I will be debt free except for my mortgage by 12/31/2011. That does not count interest fees or anything I might buy because I think I need it. And it also presumes that nothing will go kaflooey on me.

What have you been doing, listening for a day or three maybe?

Dave Ramsey does give good advice, priceless in fact, if you can follow it. But following Dave's advice is dependent on the fact that everything goes your way for the period of time intended.

Again your ignorance shows - why do you think DR tells people to have a baby emergency fund before working on getting out of debt, or a fully funded ef before working on the house and retirement? Why do you think when people call in facing a financial crisis he tells people to put their TMMO on hold?

I have no problem with the Christian stuff because I am a Lutheran but I am not so sure about the getting married and having kids and owning a house stuff. But it is Dave Ramsey's show and he can preach that sermon if he wants. Oprah Winfrey has never been married with kids and she has so much money that she would laugh at Dave Ramsey's little bit of money.

What "sermon" are you talking about? Dave doesn't tell people they have to get married or have to own a house or have kids - he tells them how to manage their money if they WISH to get married or own a house or have kids.

You have picked up a fraction of what DR discusses and decided you were an expert. Have you never heard that it is better to keep your mouth shut and be thought a fool than to open your mouth and remove all doubt? You have opened your mouth in ignorance - the certainty of impression you've created is your own doing.

I would sooner take financial advice from Oprah Winfrey than I would from Dave Ramsey because every one of his "facts" are wrong if you take the time to look them up. If Dave Ramsey knows of a "good mutual fund with a ten year record of returning 12%" he should name that fund. He cannot name that fund because no fund like that exists in this world. If some fund like that did exist in this world everybody in their right mind would buy some. Let Dave Ramsey tell me the name of the fund that returns 12% and even I will start an account with them.

1) I think you mean you will BUY them - since one does not open accounts with mutual funds - one opens accounts with brokerages and buys funds within that account.

2) Actually he says a good LIFETIME track record of 12% being older than 10 years, and I've got 4 of them in my IRA and 5 of them in my 401k.
From my IRA - and this is NOT a recommendation that other people buy this fund - all investments carry risk and you should consult a professional before investing
Name, Symbol, Inception date, Annualized return since inception
American Century Investments Growth Fund Class Investor TWCGX Inception 06/1971 12.56%
CRM Small Cap Value Fund Class Investor Inception 09/1995 11.58%
Janus Overseas Fund Class T JAOSX Inception 05/1994 13.11%
Neuberger Berman Genesis Fund Class Investor NBGNX Inception 09/1988 12.65%

Oh yeah the actual 10 year return on those 4 is positive and for 3 of them is over 10%.

3) Dave doesn't name individual funds because he doesn't give personal investing advice - he gives GENERAL investing advice and tells people to engage the services of a professional to address their personal situation.

**Greebo** · 02-01-2011, 06:33 AM

Originally Posted by RickyBobby

Greebo,

I want to go on record as saying that Dave Ramsey is not wrong.

You have already gone on record as saying that DR says things he doesn't say. You need to fix your original statements that were completely false if you want to regain any credibility.

But Dave Ramsey is incorrect to say that the only way to be happy is to be a devout Christian, married, with children. There are about 6.8 billion people in the world and a very, very small percentage of them are devout Christians, married, with children.

Good thing he doesn't, then, huh? The ONLY time Dave says anything about Christianity other than when speaking from his own perspective is as his closing tag line, and frankly he's entitled to his personal religious belief - THIS ATHEIST isn't offended. He NEVER tells people they have to have a spouse and kids.

**RickyBobby** · 02-01-2011, 06:41 AM

larabelle,

I am not wasting my time. I am just pointing out that half of what Dave Ramsey says is right and the other half is wrong. A person or a couple or a family does not have to buy a house to be a person or a couple or a family. A debit card is not the same as a credit card even though Dave Ramsey says it is. Rent a car or a hotel room on your debit card and let them silently put a two thousand dollar hold on your account and see what happens when your checks start bouncing because of that hold. A lot of people, billions and billions of people, lead perfectly fine lives with Jesus Christ in their life. Another provable fact where Dave Ramsey is billions of times wrong.
Dave Ramsey is right about a lot of things and he is wrong about just as many things. But if Dave Ramsey is what you need to keep you from going to the mall on the weekend with your credit card ready it is all good.

Any sort of credit charges you interest and fees which is money of your pocket. I think everyone already knows that. But the satifaction of buying something nicer and newer than you have ever had before overwhelms the interest and fees. I do not care if it is a designer purse or a Harley-Davidson motorcyle or a house or whatever else it might be.

An old buddy of mine said that you can live rich and die poor or you can live poor and die rich. Dave Ramsey seems to preach the sermon of how you should live poor and die rich. Fair enough. That is one way to live. Worry yourself to death over the last nickel in your budget on your spreadsheet and pretend that you are doing something noble. The people who call the show to scream that they are debt-free all sound happy enough about it. That still will not keep them from getting in a car crash or getting cancer or getting any of those thousand other gotchyas that are out there. It just means that they are not paying twenty dollars per month to Master/Visa/Discover/Amex for the nice stuff they bought on sale. Twenty bucks, big deal.
It is not going to change your life one way or the other.

But Dave Ramsey would say that 20 bucks per month invested in a good 12% no load mutual fund with a ten year track record would end up as 53,917 dollars at age 75. Who cares at age 75 in the first place? Plus there is no such thing as a 12% annual return mutual fund no matter how many times Dave Ramsey says that there is. Telling the same lie over and over does not make it true. If there is such a thing as a 12% annual return mutual fund I want Dave Ramsey to name it. Or name them. Or name all of them. See? The truth hurts sometimes but that does not keep it from being the truth.

"Good 12% growth stock mutual fund with a proven ten year track record"?

Sure, Dave Ramsey, it sounds nice when you say it. Now call it by name.

**Greebo** · 02-01-2011, 06:50 AM

Originally Posted by RickyBobby

larabelle,

I am not wasting my time. I am just pointing out that half of what Dave Ramsey says is right and the other half is wrong. A person or a couple or a family does not have to buy a house to be a person or a couple or a family.

He doesn't say that

A debit card is not the same as a credit card even though Dave Ramsey says it is.

No, he doesn't. He says the protections are the same if you run the debit card as a credit card.

Rent a car or a hotel room on your debit card and let them silently put a two thousand dollar hold on your account and see what happens when your checks start bouncing because of that hold.

He has discussed that you need money in the account when you use your debit card, yes.

A lot of people, billions and billions of people, lead perfectly fine lives with Jesus Christ in their life. Another provable fact where Dave Ramsey is billions of times wrong.

Goodness gracious do you not understand that this is his stating his personal opinion? It's not actually part of his advice? I've spoken with DR before and he's given this atheist advice with just as free a heart and spirit as he does for those with whom he shares beliefs.

Dave Ramsey is right about a lot of things and he is wrong about just as many things.

So far you have still gotten a lot of what he says WRONG - do you understand what "straw man argument" means?

The people who call the show to scream that they are debt-free all sound happy enough about it. That still will not keep them from getting in a car crash or getting cancer or getting any of those thousand other gotchyas that are out there.

And why do you think DR encourages people to be properly insured?

Plus there is no such thing as a 12% annual return mutual fund no matter how many times Dave Ramsey says that there is. Telling the same lie over and over does not make it true. If there is such a thing as a 12% annual return mutual fund I want Dave Ramsey to name it. Or name them. Or name all of them. See? The truth hurts sometimes but that does not keep it from being the truth.

You should stop then since I just listed 4 and it only took me 5 minutes to find a list of 9 or 10 to pick from when I was picking those 4.

**RickyBobby** · 02-01-2011, 06:55 AM

Greebo,

Dave Ramsey does not name the mutual fund that returns 12% because there is no such mutual fund in existence. Maybe there was one decades ago but there is not one today.

But the core advice that Dave Ramsey give to get yourself out of debt and stay out of debt for the rest of your life is priceless.

The people who listen to the Dave Ramsey show for entertainment will be entertained by his whacky callers.

But the people who listen to Dave Ramsey for advice could get much better and more pracital and moee doable advice elsewheres.

If some guy wants a truck and a boat and some guns and some fishing tackle to go hunting and fishing, that is what he lives for.

I am not saying that it is right or wrong as opposed to putting that money into some ESA for his kids to go to college and then be unemployed like all of the other kids who went to college.

I am just saying that lifestyle is a choice and the Dave Ramsey sort of lifestyle is dead wrong.

Shop on coupons and buy your kids clothes at the Salvation Army store? Not me. No thanks. You can have your saved money are you can worry yourself to death about it and you can choke on your money and die. At least you will die rich.

**Russ** · 02-01-2011, 06:59 AM

Originally Posted by RickyBobby

At least you will die rich.

I like to look at it like this: At least I will retire comfortably without needing Social Security. Will you?

**Greebo** · 02-01-2011, 07:07 AM

Originally Posted by RickyBobby

Greebo,

Dave Ramsey does not name the mutual fund that returns 12% because there is no such mutual fund in existence. Maybe there was one decades ago but there is not one today.

Ricky

I JUST NAMED FOUR

Next fabrication please.

**Ceashels** · 02-01-2011, 07:43 AM

I've never heard DR speak about dying rich.. just retiring with dignity.

I get the feeling that you agree with the general principles of DR but really hold some deep seeded resentment toward his religious views that you just can't let go.

"But the people who listen to Dave Ramsey for advice could get much better and more pracital and moee doable advice elsewheres. "

If you can get more practical and more doable advice elsewhere, why are you squandering your energy spouting negativity about DR in a DR themed forum? Perhaps there are other areas of this Village that could benefit from your experiences?

Then again......

**RickyBobby** · 02-01-2011, 07:51 AM

Daisygirl,

Should you take your family to Outback Steak House and put eighty dollars on your credit card?

According to Dave Ramsey No.

According to me Yes.

Life is for the living. Life is not for leaving a pile of money in your legacy drawer.

Opinions may vary on this. For some people having a pile of money piled up and stuck away is more comforting than having fun and having nice stuff. Give me the fun and nice stuff any day. Those old people sitting on their pile of money because they are too scared to spend any of it are pitiful to me.

It has often been said that you can live rich and die poor or you can live poor and die rich. Given those two choices, I would sooner live rich and die poor. But other people get some kind of sick satisfaction out of living on rice and beans and piling up their money. I only hope that what they get out of it is worth what they gave up for it. That plan is not for me because neither Dave Ramsey or anybody else can guarantee me that I will be old and wealthy some day. As a matter of fact, I do not even see the point of being some old crone crying over their money.

Dave Ramsey is useful in his place for not piling on consumer debt for the newest and shiniest thing. They will always be making and selling nice stuff to far outstrip your ability to pay for it. At some point in your life, be it your teens or your eighties, you should follow Dave Ramsey's advice and avoid all form of consumer credit. Not because credit is bad, if it were dollar for dollar, it is the interest and fees that get you.

Dave Ramsey says that credit is bad. I do not want to disagree with Dave Ramsey but I still think otherwise. It is interest and fees that are bad, not credit. Credit just means that you are going to pay them for what you bought. If you can buy some big item at the big box store for 180 days same as cash you should buy that thing and pay them all of their money withing 180 days. It is a win-win deal. Like if your fridge is played out and you need a new fridge and it is 900 dollars and you figure that you can pay the store or the card in six months you should have a new fridge. Dave Ramsey may disagree with that entirely and he is probably more right that I am. It just depends on if the people who buy the fridge pay it off in less than six months. If they do not it goes to a 24.99% payment plan from the day of purchase. That is what the big box store is counting on 91% of the time. So they put the fridge on sale and they offer you 180 days same as cash. They know that most of you wll blow it off and make minimal payments. But if you were a wise Dave Ramsey trained consumer with a little money laid back you could kick their butt every time.
Buy their stuff on their terms but then just be sure to pay them on time. That way it in on your terms instead of on their costly terms. Your way is no cost.

I have no arguement with Dave Ramsey saying that a wise person would avoid credit and interest and fees and all of that. I am 100% with Dave Ramsey in avoid credit plans and interest and fees and payments. When you owe somebody money you are working for them.

But a wise person today in 2011 should have one credit card. Forget about the rebate points or the air miles for the purposes of this discussion. An adult person in the USA should have one credit card in 2011. Dave Ramsey says different. Dave Ramsey is wrong until you have as much money as Dave Ramsey and you can buy and oceanliner on your debit card.

The entire Dave Ramsey teaching is rooted in 1965 when stocks were going up and a doctor office visit was ten bucks.

Dave Ramsey says that a good no load mutual growth fund is paying 12% per year. Good. Name one.

**Ceashels** · 02-01-2011, 08:00 AM

Originally Posted by RickyBobby

Dave Ramsey says that a good no load mutual growth fund is paying 12% per year. Good. Name one.

Umm, Greebo already listed four of them for you. Did you not see them?

**RickyBobby** · 02-01-2011, 08:02 AM

Ceashels,

Dave Ramsey says that people should live modestly so that that can leave a shithouse full of money to their heirs. It you do not hear this, you are not listening.

I think that old people who have raised their kids and worked their careers should go on a lot of vacations and buy a nice house in Palm Springs and piss on their heirs.

Maybe Dave Ramsey is correct in his interpretation of the Bible and parents should sleep in dirt so that their kids can sleep in silk and satin. I have read the Bible a time or two myself and I never saw it that way.

Dave Ramsey and his whacky callers are entertaining but I would not take advice lifetime advice from that fraud.

**Greebo** · 02-01-2011, 08:04 AM

Originally Posted by RickyBobby

Daisygirl,

Should you take your family to Outback Steak House and put eighty dollars on your credit card?

According to Dave Ramsey No.

Yes, because credit cards are dangerous tools of finance at the best of times. Few people are able to maintain the discipline necessary to use a credit card responsible. On average, approximately (if my statistics are right) 80% of credit card users carry a balance. Additionally, studies have shown that when you use a CC you tend to spend MORE money than you would if you used cash or debit cards.

According to me Yes.

I look forward to hearing your credentials. I have heard Dave's.

Life is for the living. Life is not for leaving a pile of money in your legacy drawer.

You again attribute attitudes to Mr. Ramsey that are not his. I challenge you to find actual quotes that prove otherwise. Otherwise I am left only to conclude that you are at best simply misunderstanding but more likely, having been corrected already, determined to lie.

Opinions may vary on this. For some people having a pile of money piled up and stuck away is more comforting than having fun and having nice stuff. Give me the fun and nice stuff any day. Those old people sitting on their pile of money because they are too scared to spend any of it are pitiful to me.

That is not what DR recommends.

It has often been said that you can live rich and die poor or you can live poor and die rich. Given those two choices, I would sooner live rich and die poor.

So your aspiration is to be a leach on society in later life. Good for you. I'm sure you will be well admired after bankruptcy court.

It is a win-win deal. Like if your fridge is played out and you need a new fridge and it is 900 dollars and you figure that you can pay the store or the card in six months you should have a new fridge.

75% of people who buy more expensive appliances on "same as cash" deals end up not paying the appliances off in time, and thus end up owing exorbitant interest.

The entire Dave Ramsey teaching is rooted in 1965 when stocks were going up and a doctor office visit was ten bucks.

You really don't listen to him, do you?

Dave Ramsey says that a good no load mutual growth fund is paying 12% per year. Good. Name one.

I HAVE NAMED FOUR

**Greebo** · 02-01-2011, 08:05 AM

Originally Posted by RickyBobby

Ceashels,

Dave Ramsey says that people should live modestly so that that can leave a shithouse full of money to their heirs. It you do not hear this, you are not listening.

I think that old people who have raised their kids and worked their careers should go on a lot of vacations and buy a nice house in Palm Springs and piss on their heirs.

Maybe Dave Ramsey is correct in his interpretation of the Bible and parents should sleep in dirt so that their kids can sleep in silk and satin. I have read the Bible a time or two myself and I never saw it that way.

Dave Ramsey and his whacky callers are entertaining but I would not take advice lifetime advice from that fraud.

Ok - if you insist on making up falsehoods, I am forced to close this discussion.