Wife Wants to Buy Car B4 Doing Debt Snowball (AND Pressure from In Laws to Buy)

[Faith4Ever]

Hello All!

My wife and I finished Financial Peace University at our church, and we have established an emergency fund of around $1000 and have just paid off our first couple of items on the debt snowball. Most of the items on our debt payoff list are small amounts and can be paid off within about 6 months (we can pay off about 1 item per month for the next 4 months), and once they are paid off they will add about $600 to our monthly disposable income.

Now here's the issue: we are currently carpooling in a minivan (my wife and I and 2 kids) that we had to finance after both of us lost a car (one totaled and the other's engine blew within a week's time). We had not done Dave Ramsey at the time and were unprepared to pay cash after losing both household vehicles. Our car payment is $400 per month, and based on Dave Ramsey's principles/teaching we should now be focusing on Step 2 Debt Snowball. My wife has a problem with this because she is a "free spirit" and wants to just get her a car first so she has the freedom to come and go as she pleases without sharing a vehicle. If I was to agree to getting another car now we would either have to interrupt the debt snowball and direct those funds toward saving for an inexpensive used car, or finance a car and add the debt to the snowball. I do not like either of these options because the first option would prevent us from increasing our disposable income for the 4 - 5 months until we saved enough for a car, and the second option increases debt (the OPPOSITE of our goal). My wife doesn't care which option we choose as long as she gets a car fast.

I get frustrated because I see some of our classmates sacrificing and sucking things up to get ahead on the Dave Ramsey FPU plan, but my wife seems to keep conjuring up ways to derail the whole thing (I want new clothes, I want a car, I want to move to a nicer place). Our van is loaded with leather seats, power everything, and a DVD player, and we got a great deal on it, but somehow my wife is not tough/committed enough to carpool in the van until we can pay down some more debt. We both sat down and looked at the debt snowball AND the budget, and she agreed to the plan. She knows exactly where our efforts at financial freedom are taking us, so I just don't understand the lack of commitment.

I compromised with her and we added a budget for a $4000 car to our debt snowball (in the proper order based on amounts), but it won't be that item's turn until May. However, once we get to that $4000 item we will have accumulated about $1200 per month to apply to the debt snowball, so it will only take about 3 months from there to get the car (the entire debt snowball will take just under 3 years, so getting her a car within the next 6 - 8 months seems like a fair compromise). That isn't fast enough for my wife, and now she has her dad, mom, and cousin telling her she needs a car immediately, and that if I won't agree to get one now she should go finance one on her own or borrow money from them (family members) to get herself a car. I have tried to communicate to her that carpooling is one of many sacrifices we will have to make to get ahead financially, but that in the long run it would be worth it. She is tired of hearing about the long run and declares the program is useless when she does not see tangible short term benefits. Can anyone relate to this and does anyone have any advice on what we could do to resolve this issue? I do not want to reach the point where my wife starts to make major financial decisions without consulting/involving me at the encouragement of people outside our household.

Thanks!

[MissSeetonFan]

I don't have much advice for you. I am a SAHM in a one car family as well, so I know the feeling. We really have to work hard to fit in all appointments, shopping and everything else when my husband takes the van to work 4 out of 5 days, plus he works a second shift 3-5 nights a week and some weekends.

She is probably feeling STUCK! Perhaps getting/buying things is one of the ways she works out those feelings. Is there any way you could bring that up with her? Ask her if there was any sort of compromise on the carpooling that would allow her to feel more free? I don't know what you already do, whether she drops you off then picks you up or you do the same for her. What ages are the kids? Is dropping them off at school part of the carpooling thing?

Another route to go would be a second job or selling things to earn more money. Is there any way that you or she could pick up extra work to get to that financial goal for the car earlier?

Are there some intermediate rewards - dinner, a small purchase she has been wanting for a while, or something like that - for the debts you have paid off that could help her feel a bit better about not getting the car yet? You did say she would like to see some more immediate results. Maybe she needs something like that to help her stay more enthusiastic about budgeting and paying things off.

Getting on the same page can take some time. I wish you luck.

[jenloveschip2001]

Maybe get a cheaper car. We bought a 97 Mazda 626 for $1000. We call it our beater. We now have three vehicles and we use the mazda to loan out when a family member has a car to go down and my husband drives it back and fourth to work to save on gas and save the miles on his truck. If she doesn't feel safe driving a Beater than you drive the beater and let her have the van. She gets a car and you only have to stop the snow ball a very short period of time. Good luck!

[khaski]

Gosh, sounds like her relatives are sooo very 'helpful'. Do any of them live locally so they might be able to help by giving her rides or loaning her their car sometime? Is there a reason she NEEDS a second car, right now? In your post it sounds like no!

I am not clear if she works out of the home or not...if not, perhaps you can suggest she get a job to pay for her car she feels she must have. Ideally she would save up the cash for it.

I feel your frustration, sounds like she said she was on board, now she's jumping ship at the first big 'want'. Might she be agreeable to sitting down with the leader of yur church to talk this out and see if you two can come to a plan you're BOTH happy with?

[Ceashels]

The issue with her family standing behind her is that you will be the bad guy even though you are working hard to do the best for your family's future.

Can you arrange your carpooling schedule so she is the one with access to the car during the day? That will give her some freedom until BOTH of you are able to save up for a beater for you. She keeps the van. (Great idea Jenlovechip.)

[Greebo]

Compromise is an important part of the Dave Ramsey plan. The one area where no compromise should be allowed is the idea of borrowing more money.

But how about you get a real beater that YOU use to get around in, and your wife gets the van? That way you don't set the plan back nearly as far.

WRT the idea of her going out and financing it on her own if you don't agree - gently make it clear to her that if she does that AFTER agreeing to this plan, without your agreement, that she will be violating your trust in a serious, serious way. Financial infidelity is seen by some to be worse than physical infidelity.

I wouldn't, however, suggest that she was thinking of it - but rather, say something like, "Its a shame your family doesn't realize that you value my trust too much to do something as bad as go behind my back to buy a car. We'll just have to live with them not understanding that I'd see that as a serious betrayal".

Going back to you getting a beater - if she sees you willing to drive a hunk of junk so she can get around, that may help her understand just how serious this plan is to you. But you DO need to be willing to give a little - you're the nerd, she's the free spirit - she's got to tighten up some but YOU HAVE TO LET GO a little too and give her a real vote in the process.

[Faith4Ever]

MissSeetonFan--

You are right that she is feeling "stuck". She was a single mom doing whatever she wanted before we got married almost a year ago, so she is having trouble adjusting to compromise and consulting with her husband (me) to make major financial decisions. Her "free spirited" spending habits created a pile of collections that we will have to deal with, and will definitely not enable us to get ahead and prepare for retirement. She wants all of the things we are planning for, like a house, retirement funds, college funds, but she does not want to sacrifice for any of it.

The small rewards idea is a good one, and we could do more of that. I have recently suggested a couple of things that we implemented, like setting aside money for us to go out on a nice date once a month, and adding a saving plan for a "shopping spree". She also has a $200 personal budget of "blow money" each month to spend on whatever she wants, which she goes over by $100 - $300 every month (my personal budget is less than hers and I always finish under). We spend $250 per month on Entertainment/Dining Out and have gone way over budget on that every month. We've talked to members of our Financial Peace small group at church and they don't exercise anywhere near the amount of frivolous spending that we have in our budget. Still, she is not happy.

I'm not sure if this is more about the spending itself that she wants or the FREEDOM to spend as she chooses that she is most concerned about. Sometimes it seems like her actions are more out of rebellion than really feeling justified in her decisions. I really don't understand this because she agreed to the budget. She just keeps complaining that there are no tangible "lifestyle" benefits that she can measure. We've only been on the program since Sept, so I don't really know what she expects. We have already paid off 3 debt items and increased our disposable income around $200 per month. Not to mention we have seen the benefits of our emergency fund when we used it for car repairs. The first few debts on our list are mine, which she has a problem with as well. Most of her debts are in collections and have been for years, so paying them off first would add nothing to our disposable income because she hasn't been paying on them for quite some time. She has some trust issues, so I think even though the snowball is giving our household extra money she has an issue with me having 4 or 5 small debts at the beginning of the snowball. The thing is she only has 2 debts in good standing, and one of those is a $15,000 student loan, so those items come a little later in the snowball than mine. Maybe your rewards idea will help her feel a little more like this is benefiting her too, but it just seems like we have enough incorporated into the budget for her to exercise some "freedom" while we progress.

JenlovesChip2001--

The beater idea is a good one. I suggested that to her and asked if she would rather get something around $1000 sooner or wait and get something more expensive. She said she would rather wait and wanted at least $4000 for a car. I added it to the snowball and showed her numerically that we could have it by this summer, but she was not happy with that. She wants it now, but even if we started saving now it would take 4 - 5 months because we haven't freed up enough money with the snowball yet. After the 4 -5 month period we wouldn't have made any progress freeing up money, so it makes more sense to do it the other way around and advance the snowball because she will have her car by July anyway if we do that. The bottom line is I think our priorities are just really far apart.

Khaski--

Sitting down with a church leader is a great idea. It seems like this is more of a values and trust issue than a practical one, though it's manifesting itself in a practical way. She has a workplace and it's on the way to my job on a pretty long commute, so I drop her off on the way to my office. We drop our son at elementary school and our daughter at daycare first. We have a nice reliable vehicle that SHE wanted and I financed even though I really preferred to spend less money, so having a second car is more of a convenience issue than an issue of "need". Of course we all prefer to have a vehicle per adult, but if we're going to "live like no one else so we can live like no one else" that's a rather small sacrifice that will only last 6 -7 more months. Not to mention carpooling saves on gas.


I'm in a position where now my wife is making it seem to her family that I'm not taking "good care" of her. I suppose they are measuring that by some standard outside the Dave Ramsey philosophies, so that's not something I can appease. I'm flexible on HOW we eliminate debt, but I'm NOT flexible on whether or not we SHOULD eliminate debt because we MUST. Borrowing so she can have a car now is not an option, so if she does not want to get a $1000 beater to hold her over then, in my opinion, the fair thing to do is to execute our 6 - 7 month plan for the $4000 car she wants. I'm agreeing to insert the car purchase into the debt snowball (even though it really isn't a debt) as a compromise, so I don't believe I'm being too rigid on this. If I am please say so. I will add that we have been carpooling for about 9 months now, but some people have to take public transportation and others do so willingly to pay off debt, so I believe we're blessed to have the one nice van we do drive. Considering our debt snowball will take 29 months, interrupting it to get another car in 7 months or less is pretty darn good. Am I crazy?

[Faith4Ever]

Ceashels --

Giving her the vehicle during the day is a good idea. I will try that and see what happens. We will burn more gas that way because she will have to drive the opposite direction from our house to come get me and then go get the kids, but the trade off would be worth it if we could be on the same page with the budget overall. Maybe your idea would help her feel less "stranded" and able to continue carpooling/sharing until we could save for the 2nd vehicle.

[dancemommy]

I think your wife is feeling a little overwhelmed and like things are out of her control. I like your compromise. It isn't easy!

[Faith4Ever]

Greebo --

Very wise advice :-). Trust is very important and I will try your approach. I will also stay mindful and work hard to compromise my "nerdly" ways with my "free spirit".

I am so glad I found this forum. You and Ceashels seem very experienced!

[FrabjousDay]

Pick up a beater for your use. She drives the minivan.

[peanut]

Well I'm afraid I'm going to be harsh. Because I used to be your wife and I fight it constantly. She is being immature. We've survived with one car for 32 years of marriage. It hasn't killed us or the kids. It does mean being more organized about shopping, errands and appointments. But that's it.

The key for us 'free spirits' is to find friends who have cars to spend time with. And to invite them in and do things with them. And, heavens to betsy, walk places. A 'free spirit' is best when they live within walking distance of a shopping district...though it makes our husbands a little nervous. I went through a phase of realizing it wasn't the purchasing of goods I really wanted...it was the atmosphere of things happening and being around people!

I think she is confusing shopping with entertainment. And a car as a means to have fun. She needs to sit down and look at frugal ways to have fun if she wants to see 'short term lifestyle benefits'. Maybe bring home a book from the library called "Frugal Luxuries" by Tracy McBride...and such books like that. Just leave them laying around for her to trip over. Or maybe buy her one for Christmas. There is soooo much more to 'lifestyle benefits' than spending more money!

For me the big thing was dining out. We spent a lot on that each month, especially living within walking distance of two or three great little cafes. So I sat down and made a list of all the reasons why I ate out. And then went down that list and came up with alternatives for each reason. We hardly eat out at all now (thanks to my new diet!), but we have nice meals and treats at home, sometimes out of the freezer on days I don't feel like cooking. Other times DH will cook a meal as a treat for me...to give me a break.

Has she ever watched "Till Debt Do Us Part" on Slice TV? She really may not 'get it' yet, even with Financial Peace behind her. Gail VazOxlade was much better for me than Dave Ramsey.

Maybe a Bible study on stewardship might be in order? Relating stewardship to financial stewardship as well as other kinds... I liked "Tis a Gift to be Simple" from the spiritual perspective. And Randy Alcorn's book "Money, Possessions and Eternity".

Anyway, from one ex-spoiled kid to the husband of another - I feel for you. I hate thinking of all the stress I put my DH under during the time I was rebelling against him...which was about the first 10 years of our marriage! Some of us are slow learners...

ETA: another great resource if you have young kids is "The Complete Tightwad Gazette".

[Spirit Deer]

As I was reading this, I was coming to the same conclusion as Peanut: Your wife needs to grow up. So I'm harsh, too.

She's an adult and should be able to grasp the concept that she cannot continue to do the same things she's always done which results in financial trouble, assuming she wants to get out and stay out of financial trouble. She should also be able to delay gratification with small inconsequential things for the big payoff of a house of her own, even though it means making some sacrifices. Most people don't get everything they want the instant they want it. Why does she think she should be able to?

She also needs to grow up and not drag her family into issues that are between you and her. Using them to pressure you is disrespectful, too. They need to butt out completely.

It sounds like you work the same hours as your wife. Why does she need a car if she's at work? Is the plan then that you'll both drive to work, which you said is a long commute, thereby almost doubling your gas and maintenance expenses plus insurance, when you'll be driving right past her place of employment every day while she drives herself there? That's just stupid and a big fat waste of money above and beyond the price of the car.

There, I've said it. Sorry but it does not make sense to me to buy a second car just so she can drive herself to a place that's on your way to your work. Or am I missing something here?

Maybe you could have her drop you at work with the van a couple days a week, if she insists she needs a car while she's supposed to be working.

[peanut]

In reading over Spirit Deer's response I think another issue that is at stake here is Independence. She is used to her own independence, and independence = car in her mind.

But you are married now. The two become one...you know... It's important to realize that in a marriage you give up some of that independence. That's what love is all about. So yeah...I think she IS being disrespectful of you and your leadership role as head of household in the family. I also think it will take a spiritual leader/advisor/counselor to tell her that rather than you. She won't take it well from you. Just my personal experience.

[Spirit Deer]

Oh, crap, I was going to delete my response, but since Peanut has responded, I can't.

This may be stupid and too simplistic, but would it help any if she's the one doing the driving? I'm assuming you drive, not her. Maybe she would feel more independent if she literally had control in her hands by doing the driving.

I do think there's more going on than just not having a car, but it's up to her to figure out what the problem really is.

I agree with Peanut she needs to hear it from someone else, not you. It needs to be someone whose opinion she respects, whether it's a church leader or someone else.

Good luck.