Why it's good to consult DH about life's financial challenges. - Page 2
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  1. #16
    Registered User Gardengal18's Avatar
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    Not necessarrily. It depends on what the Seller and the Realtor AGREE upon. My parents are in Clearwater, FL and they currently have their home on the market. Their Listing Agreement states that if the Realtor finds the buyer he gets 5% BUT if my parents find the buyer themselves they only have to pay the Broker 3%. That was their "Agreement"

    Commission is NEVER set in stone anywhere in this country as it is ILLEGAL to do so. - Commission is always negoiated and AGREED upon by the Seller and the Broker when the Broker is "Hired" to list the home for sale by the Seller. A listing Agreement is in essence an "Employment Contract" between the Seller (the Employer/Principle) and the Real Estate Broker (the "employee" for lack of a better word). Don't ever let a broker tell you that the "Standard" or "Usual" Commission rate in the area is X% - it is ILLEGAL for a Licensed Realtor to do such a thing.

  2. #17
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    MI was 7% over 100,000 about 13 years ago. I honestly thought it was the same everyware in the U.S.? Surprise. Hope Canada is lower for your sake.
    Gardengal18 you have peaked my interest. Not saying your wrong just never heard that.
    Apparently, it's 6% in MI. straight. 3% listing and 3% selling agent. About $16,800 on $280,000.

  3. #18
    Rude and Vile Master Greebo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gardengal18 View Post
    Not necessarrily. It depends on what the Seller and the Realtor AGREE upon. My parents are in Clearwater, FL and they currently have their home on the market. Their Listing Agreement states that if the Realtor finds the buyer he gets 5% BUT if my parents find the buyer themselves they only have to pay the Broker 3%. That was their "Agreement"

    Commission is NEVER set in stone anywhere in this country as it is ILLEGAL to do so. - Commission is always negoiated and AGREED upon by the Seller and the Broker when the Broker is "Hired" to list the home for sale by the Seller. A listing Agreement is in essence an "Employment Contract" between the Seller (the Employer/Principle) and the Real Estate Broker (the "employee" for lack of a better word). Don't ever let a broker tell you that the "Standard" or "Usual" Commission rate in the area is X% - it is ILLEGAL for a Licensed Realtor to do such a thing.
    Well I don't think it's illegal to say "standard" in the sense that there is a normal rate that most realtors use in a specific region, but you are right - the rate is ALWAYS negotiable.

    And buyers agents can also get a different rate than the sellers agent. In a recent deal we just did, the seller's agent got 1.75% but our agent got 2.5%. The buyer's agent commission is set out in the contract of sale (if there is a buyer's agent that is).
    If you could kick in the pants the person responsible for your problems, you wouldn't be able to sit for a month.

    Did you know that a 4 year student paying $20,000/year who finances their education graduates with over $103,000 in debt to start? But a student who works and pays cash and takes 6 years to graduate ends with $6,300 in their pocket! So much for "getting a head start by financing!"


    Greebo
    (Nerd Spender): Loving and extremely patiently tolerated husband of ceashels.
    WARNING: Y Chromosome behind the keyboard. Adjust your listening filters appropriately!

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    Two mortgages, two one no car loans, one no credit cards, and a partridge in pear tree!

  4. #19
    Registered User MomToTwoBoys's Avatar
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    Well, regardless of what Gardengal18 thinks, the house sale will go as planned. We have been doing research into what costs we'll be looking at doing and this is what we've gotten:

    (This is for Calgary. Other cities and/or provinces may differ.)

    There are usually closing costs associated at the time of taking possession of your home. These could include the following (talk to your REALTORŪ to find out a more detailed listing):
    1. Attorney/Lawyer fees (yours and your lenders if applicable)
    2. Property taxes (to cover tax period to date)
    3. Interest
    4. Title insurance
    5. Any Documentation preparation fees
    We have a mortgage renewal in July anyways. DS11 will be transitioning into a new school in August/September. My inlaws are not getting any younger. The house we're buying is in a fantastic location and it's our dream home. We WILL have all of our financial ducks in a row when this happens.

    People have to realize the mortgage rules are completely different in Canada than in the US. It's not like we're living in an unhealthy housing market that went belly-up.

  5. #20
    Registered User Gardengal18's Avatar
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    WOW And all I did was agree with Savvy Snipper, but notice you didn't call him/her out. Well since you called me out I'll now say this much...Best of luck with that thought that "the sale will go through as planned".....I know of several people who also thought that their sale would go as planned too, and they've been thinking that for over a year now.

    Mortgage rules may be different in Canada but the fact of Reality is that the Bad Economy is the exact same here in the United States as it is in England, Ireland, France, and Yes, even Canada. It has nothing to do with "different mortgage rules" but it has more to do with the Bad Economy and until the Unemployment Rate comes down, consumers will still be fearful to spend especially on big purchases like that no matter what country they live in.

    Till the Economy returns and Unemployment subsides home sales will be slow and as someone who is in the Industry now I can tell you that the truth of the matter is that the very few buyers that are out there are VERY, VERY picky and want the biggest bang for their buck...It is definetly a "Buyer's Market". Yes, the $8,000 tax credit has helped some but as statistics have shown recently Mortgage Apps fell when that tax credit was set to expire recently which tells me that it was artificially pumping the Industry along. My cousin has had his on the market for over a year and he made the stupid mistake of buying another house before selling the other one...Now he's stuck and he's stretched to the max trying to pay TWO Mortgages. He's tried to rent but recently had to evict the tenants because they weren't paying the rent (got laid off - not so surprising in this economy), in the meatime they trashed his home before he was able to get them out, now he's got to fix up all the damage and since they have no money to go after it's gonna come out of his pocket, which is empty and battered to begin with lately so he's in a bit of a pickle.....My parents also have their home on the market and it's been months now and not even 1 person has come to look....my neighbors have had their home up for sale for a year now and they haven't had anyone come to look either....All their Realtors though have suggested that they lower their listing price by about another 20% (and all these people are in different regions of the country) I also have realatives in England and Ireland who say Sales of Homes are very slow there too and prices have plummented.

    So, it ain't got nothing to do with "different mortgage rules". It's the Economy...... In case you haven't noticed it sucks not just in this country but we are in what is known as a Global Recession..so I wish you luck and hope it all works out for you but don't be too surprised or upset if the "plan" dosen't all work out as you think it will. It may take a while for your dreams to be realized.

    Oh and yes, I wouldn't dream of buying a new home or going on a vacation or even as much as buy a new blouse till I paid off my In-Laws. When it comes to Family and Money things can get tricky and strained especially if that "Family" keeps helping me out.
    Last edited by Gardengal18; 01-02-2010 at 11:27 PM.

  6. #21
    Registered User Gardengal18's Avatar
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    Greebo,

    The Sherman Antitrust Act and subsequent antitrust laws passed in the United States do have a significant impact on the real estate business. In particular, these laws make it necessary for each real estae business to independently estalish its own office fees and commissions to prevent an antritrust claim of PRICE FIXING. This could also include collusion among real esstate businesses to control the duration of any real estate contract or the type of compensation to agents, etc. To avoid a charge of collusion, conspiracy and/or Price Fixing real estate agents should never have preprinted fees or preprinted time limits in contracts. Also, agents are to avoid discussions regarding commission rates charged to clients or compensation fees to other real esate offices for cooperative brokerage services.

  7. #22
    Rude and Vile Master Greebo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gardengal18 View Post
    Greebo,

    The Sherman Antitrust Act and subsequent antitrust laws passed in the United States do have a significant impact on the real estate business. In particular, these laws make it necessary for each real estae business to independently estalish its own office fees and commissions to prevent an antritrust claim of PRICE FIXING.
    Yeah I'm sorry, where did I suggest anyone was price fixing? I did say the rates were negotiable. I just said that there's a standard rate most of them use - standard as in *traditional*.

    If you wanna take up issue with the fact that 80%+ of the realtors in Maryland use a standard of 5%, take it up with the Marland Real Estate Association. You could call my Real Estate attorney if you like - he's a lawyer and a real estate broker, and he uses the standard 5% split 50/50 too.

    See price FIXING would be if EVERY realtor did it exactly that way and there was no negotiation period. That isn't what I'm saying - I'm saying they'll default to 5% as a starting point (most of them - some start lower) because that's the state maximum.
    If you could kick in the pants the person responsible for your problems, you wouldn't be able to sit for a month.

    Did you know that a 4 year student paying $20,000/year who finances their education graduates with over $103,000 in debt to start? But a student who works and pays cash and takes 6 years to graduate ends with $6,300 in their pocket! So much for "getting a head start by financing!"


    Greebo
    (Nerd Spender): Loving and extremely patiently tolerated husband of ceashels.
    WARNING: Y Chromosome behind the keyboard. Adjust your listening filters appropriately!

    Three
    Two mortgages, two one no car loans, one no credit cards, and a partridge in pear tree!

  8. #23
    Registered User AP102209's Avatar
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    I just wanted to say good luck

  9. #24
    Registered User Gardengal18's Avatar
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    Sorry Greebo, "Standard" "Traditional" what ever you want to call it, but according to The Sherman Antitrust Act it is considered "Price Fixing" and it is Illegal. By the way, are you currently working in the Industry because I am and they are VERY specific about this topic in particular.

    Oh, and your "Attorney" should know this being an "Attorney" and all....just sayin'

  10. #25
    Registered User Gardengal18's Avatar
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    Oh and Greebo, I didn't just pick this out of the thin air - It is a direct quote from what is written in my Real Estate Law Textbook, so I think they should know precisely what they are talking about.

    "The Sherman Antitrust Act and subsequent antitrust laws passed in the United States do have a significant impact on the real estate business. In particular, these laws make it necessary for each real estae business to independently estalish its own office fees and commissions to prevent an antritrust claim of PRICE FIXING. This could also include collusion among real esstate businesses to control the duration of any real estate contract or the type of compensation to agents, etc. To avoid a charge of collusion, conspiracy and/or Price Fixing real estate agents should never have preprinted fees or preprinted time limits in contracts. Also, agents are to avoid discussions regarding commission rates charged to clients or compensation fees to other real esate offices for cooperative brokerage services."


    And what's with the sarcasim in your post? It's dripping of it. I wasn't sarcastic to you, so I would appreciate the same respect in return. You made a statement and I simply corrected you and told you that "Standard" "Traditional" "Usual" whatever you want to call them Commission Rates are Illegal according to the Sherman Antitrust Act and I did that by just posting the direct quote from the Textbook.
    There's absolutely no need to get nasty when someone tells you about something they have more expertise in than you do.

    "Yeah I'm sorry, where did I suggest anyone was price fixing? I did say the rates were negotiable. I just said that there's a standard rate most of them use - standard as in *traditional*.If you wanna take up issue with the fact that 80%+ of the realtors in Maryland use a standard of 5%, take it up with the Marland Real Estate Association. You could call my Real Estate attorney if you like - he's a lawyer and a real estate broker, and he uses the standard 5% split 50/50 too."
    Last edited by Gardengal18; 01-03-2010 at 01:24 AM.

  11. #26
    Rude and Vile Master Greebo's Avatar
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    No, that wasn't sarcasm, that was flat out annoyance at being lectured about something being illegal that I never said was happening in the first place. I didn't say anything about pre-printed rates, collusion, or folding, spindling or mutilation for that matter. I said, quote:
    "Well I don't think it's illegal to say "standard" in the sense that there is a normal rate that most realtors use in a specific region, but you are right - the rate is ALWAYS negotiable."

    How much more explanation of those words, "rate that most realtors use" and "always negotiable" do you need to get what I was trying to say instead of what you seem to want to think I'm saying?
    If you could kick in the pants the person responsible for your problems, you wouldn't be able to sit for a month.

    Did you know that a 4 year student paying $20,000/year who finances their education graduates with over $103,000 in debt to start? But a student who works and pays cash and takes 6 years to graduate ends with $6,300 in their pocket! So much for "getting a head start by financing!"


    Greebo
    (Nerd Spender): Loving and extremely patiently tolerated husband of ceashels.
    WARNING: Y Chromosome behind the keyboard. Adjust your listening filters appropriately!

    Three
    Two mortgages, two one no car loans, one no credit cards, and a partridge in pear tree!

  12. #27
    Registered User MTS04's Avatar
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    Oh good gravy folks...

    MomtoTwoBoys - Good luck with you house sale and all of your challenges ahead.

  13. #28
    Registered User Gardengal18's Avatar
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    [QUOTE=Greebo;1298633]No, that wasn't sarcasm, that was flat out annoyance at being lectured about something being illegal that I never said was happening in the first place. I didn't say anything about pre-printed rates, collusion, or folding, spindling or mutilation for that matter. I said, quote:
    "Well I don't think it's illegal to say "standard" in the sense that there is a normal rate that most realtors use in a specific region, QUOTE]

    Sarcasm, annoyance whatever you want to call it you were Nasty. I do not treat you like that and I don't appreciate you treating me like that!

    Regardless of if you "think" that it's not Illegeal, evidently the Law says otherwise. It seems more like you don't like to be "lectured" as you call it, when someone points out that you were wrong about something. Gasp of Gasps!!!! Perhaps you may want to check your "Super Moderator" Ego. It may be a little over-inflated.
    You owe me an appology for your nasty attitude.

  14. #29
    Rude and Vile Master Greebo's Avatar
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    You aren't telling me anything I don't already know. I've studied the history behind the Sherman Act. I'm reasonably well familiar with it, in fact, and the history behind it, going back to the rail tycoons of the 1800's and specifically the government (state) granted monopoly that Southwest Pacific held that the government (federal) then needed to save farmers from.

    But to get back on point, I'm going to say this one last time - I was not talking about realtors getting together and setting a standard rate that they would use with no negotiation possible. I'm using the word "standard" to mean something established by custom - as in, customarily, the realtors here set their price at 5% split 50/50. They use that as their starting point. Some start lower. Some start higher - one of the best realtors I ever worked with started at 6% and knocked a point off if the buyer was one of hers. That was her "standard" rate. It wasn't one set by colluding with anyone, it was simply what she charged as HER standard. If you're in the real estate industry, then don't *YOU* have a standard rate that you charge? Are you saying YOU'RE engaging in collusion with other realtors by having a starting point you usually use?

    See, I understand very well what price fixing, colluding, and, for that matter, the Sherman Anti-Trust act are intended for. Nor did I say or even SUGGEST that colluding was legal. I challenge you to go back and re-read what I said - you won't find any suggestion that I ever talked about unlawful activities. You might even want to check a dictionary to look up the nine definitions of the word "standard". One of them refers to something established by *custom*, and it is that context in which I used the word.

    As you no doubt are well aware, few buyers understand the process of a real estate transaction. They have no idea that everything is negotiable. They don't know that they can barter on rates, commissions, fees, and everything else with not only the other party, but the agents, the inspectors, the lender/brokers, and even the appraiser.

    They simply use, by and large, 2.5% as their starting point. Everyone can negotiate if they choose to. Few do. That isn't illegal. If it were, the entire country would be short a whole bunch of realtors, not to mention car dealers and heck, even funeral home directors.
    If you could kick in the pants the person responsible for your problems, you wouldn't be able to sit for a month.

    Did you know that a 4 year student paying $20,000/year who finances their education graduates with over $103,000 in debt to start? But a student who works and pays cash and takes 6 years to graduate ends with $6,300 in their pocket! So much for "getting a head start by financing!"


    Greebo
    (Nerd Spender): Loving and extremely patiently tolerated husband of ceashels.
    WARNING: Y Chromosome behind the keyboard. Adjust your listening filters appropriately!

    Three
    Two mortgages, two one no car loans, one no credit cards, and a partridge in pear tree!

  15. #30
    Registered User Gardengal18's Avatar
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    Again there is NO "Standard" there is No "Set" there is NO "Usual" there is NO "Customary" or whatever you want to call it Rate. It is ILLEGAL to do so. You seem to have a huge problem grasping that.


    Since you challanged me I have went back through the posts and found that when I initally said "Don't ever let a broker tell you that the "Standard" or "Usual" Commission rate in the area is X% - it is ILLEGAL for a Licensed Realtor to do such a thing".

    Your immediate response was:
    "Well I don't think it's illegal to say "standard" in the sense that there is a normal rate that most realtors use in a specific region" (Your words not mine)

    Once again there is NO "Standard" "Usual" "Traditonal" "Set" or "what ever else you want to call it" Rate. It is ILLEGAL for that to be done.


    As far as what I or my company charges it depends on the property in question and the terms of the Listing Agreement....for some it's been as little as 3% and for others it's been as high as 6%.


    Still waiting for your appology there Greebo...
    Last edited by Gardengal18; 01-03-2010 at 02:20 PM.

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