Suing the terds!

[Contrary Housewife]

Yeah! Go get 'em!

Missouri resident files lawsuit against UMB Bank for overdraft fees:

Missouri resident files lawsuit against UMB Bank for overdraft fees - Columbia Missourian

[frugalwarrior2]

Language please.

[AnW819]

I want to sue my bank!!!!

[Palooka]

Awesome, CH! lol That is where I bank at. I've had a problem a couple times with them and they fixed it for me. They charged me overdraft fee's for no reason. I'm always checking on-line with my debits and it does get interesting how they clear them.

[frugalfranny]

This will be a fun one to watch CH.

Since it probably won't hit the 'big news'...........keep us posted.

Bet some other banks are watching it closely too!!

[McD]

This part of the lawsuit concerns me:

Failing to provide a correct account balance on the bank’s Web site or at the point of a sale

Your online bank account balance cannot be 100% correct all the time. If I check my account right this very minute, it's going to show we have about 700$ more in our account than we actually do, because we have some checks that haven't cleared. Online banking has NO WAY of knowing (nor does the bank) if a person has checks outstanding.

People need to take some personal accountability and maintain a checkbook register. There are some really neat excel checkbook registers that do all the math for you.

I don't understand how your bank account balance could be provided at a point of sale purchase. The merchant card processing is not set up to know my account balances, I wouldn't want it too.
What I would rather see happen is the bank deny transactions via point of sale if the funds aren't there.

Yay on the other stuff. I particularly like that the restructuring of debit card transactions is mentioned. I can understand that they process checks and stuff highest amount to lowest, on the whole "wouldn't you want us to pay your mortgage instead of returning it?" theory. But with debit card transactions, if the money isn't there to begin with, why did the bank ever approve the transaction instead of declining it? To make overdraft fees. So why restructure? To make even more overdraft fees. That's shady.

I was actually coming to the FV this morning to post this link: Cedar Falls firm helps banks adapt as customers go online | desmoinesregister.com | The Des Moines Register . There is an interesting graphic about halfway down on the righthand side of the page regarding overdraft revenue.

Sidenote on Language: A lot of villagers have children running around when they are on the site, so it's helpful to either have a language warning or to nix the naughty language all together. It helps Sara and Gabe keep the site family friendly.

[Russ]

Language please.

Fixed the title. Hope that works.

[Linus]

This part of the lawsuit concerns me:

Failing to provide a correct account balance on the bank’s Web site or at the point of a sale

Your online bank account balance cannot be 100% correct all the time. If I check my account right this very minute, it's going to show we have about 700$ more in our account than we actually do, because we have some checks that haven't cleared. Online banking has NO WAY of knowing (nor does the bank) if a person has checks outstanding.

People need to take some personal accountability and maintain a checkbook register. There are some really neat excel checkbook registers that do all the math for you.

I don't understand how your bank account balance could be provided at a point of sale purchase. The merchant card processing is not set up to know my account balances, I wouldn't want it too.
What I would rather see happen is the bank deny transactions via point of sale if the funds aren't there.

I don't think they are referring to that. It's something that freaked me out when banking in the US. My Canadian bank, when I made an online payment, deducted that immediately from my account. I've noticed that US banks don't do that, even if today was the day it's supposed to leave. Some make it go "poof" when the bill clears. I suspect that might be what they are referring to and, IMO, it's a valid reason to sue since it, if you get busy and/or forgetful, puts you in a position to accidentally be overdrawn and thus, earn the bank money.

[McD]

I don't think they are referring to that. It's something that freaked me out when banking in the US. My Canadian bank, when I made an online payment, deducted that immediately from my account. I've noticed that US banks don't do that, even if today was the day it's supposed to leave. Some make it go "poof" when the bill clears. I suspect that might be what they are referring to and, IMO, it's a valid reason to sue since it, if you get busy and/or forgetful, puts you in a position to accidentally be overdrawn and thus, earn the bank money.

That makes more sense to me. I know the bank I bank at deducts my bill-pays either the day I submit them, or the next business day if I make payments on a Sat/Sun/Bank holiday. On my online banking home page though, it always show X number of pending bill pays, which is handy.

When I worked at Vantus though, if a customer had used bill-pay that the bank had to submit an actual check too (not all vendors are set up to take electronic payments), they wouldn't deduct it from the checking account until the check the bank generated had cleared.

Thanks Linus!

[frugalwarrior2]

Linus-totally disagree. You forget=your prob. I don't get why it's the banks job to take of your book keeping? Doesn't anyone keep a physical check register anymore?? Am I that old?? (don't under any circumstances actually answer that.lol)

[Linus]

Linus-totally disagree. You forget=your prob. I don't get why it's the banks job to take of your book keeping? Doesn't anyone keep a physical check register anymore?? Am I that old?? (don't under any circumstances actually answer that.lol)

Check keeping is one thing but paying online should be instantaneous. It makes no sense to me that it takes 3 days to clear an online payment. Especially if I can download an xls or intuit document that I need to reflect the accuracy of my account. If I go in person, withdraw and then pay in person, it's instantaneous. Why can't the online be the same?

[Greebo]

Check keeping is one thing but paying online should be instantaneous. It makes no sense to me that it takes 3 days to clear an online payment.

Multiple merchants
Nightly transaction files between merchants
Triple transaction confirmation requirements

Got it now?
The process is like this - you buy an arse whooping from me for $500.
Merchant (greebo) to vendor (credit/debit processor) - instant
Vendor to my bank: "Linus owes greebo $500" - Day 1
My bank to your bank: "Linus owes Greebo $500" - Day 2
Your bank to my bank: "Linus pays Greebo $500" - Day 3
My bank to your bank: "I have received $500" - Day 4

And that's why it takes up to 4 days to process ACH transactions.

[Linus]

Multiple merchants
Nightly transaction files between merchants
Triple transaction confirmation requirements

Got it now?
The process is like this - you buy an arse whooping from me for $500.
Merchant (greebo) to vendor (credit/debit processor) - instant
Vendor to my bank: "Linus owes greebo $500" - Day 1
My bank to your bank: "Linus owes Greebo $500" - Day 2
Your bank to my bank: "Linus pays Greebo $500" - Day 3
My bank to your bank: "I have received $500" - Day 4

And that's why it takes up to 4 days to process ACH transactions.

In this day and age of computer activity, this still makes no sense. Seriously. The verification can easily be done within an hour. It sounds like they are still doing full human verification. (similar to why it takes 25 days to deposit a US cheque in Canada -- even if from a large bank like BoA or Chase).

[frugalwarrior2]

Why does it need to be instantaneous? Why can't it be instantaneous by taking it off your check book register? Also why does it need to be a lawsuit??
And to vault away a little further,why aren't you w/ a credit union? Mine has online banking service,easy loans,free atm access,no minimum bal. requirements,discount admission tickets and people friendly services not that I ever actually go in. Their visa rates weren't very competative but the rates are prob. even now,huh. Oh,And when I pay there it is instantaneous because it's just a balance transfer from my account for checking to the loans owed (signature and car).

[Greebo]

In this day and age of computer activity, this still makes no sense. Seriously. The verification can easily be done within an hour. It sounds like they are still doing full human verification. (similar to why it takes 25 days to deposit a US cheque in Canada -- even if from a large bank like BoA or Chase).

You're not thinking it through fully.

How many banking systems are out there?
How many transactions a day does a small bank have to process?
How many files do the banks need to interchange on a nightly basis?
How many banks have WORKING SYSTEMS where the money moves from account to account in a timely fashion already?
How much would it cost to replace the entire existing infrastructure with a real-time infrastructure.
What would the real-time demand be on these real time systems?
What protocols will they use?
How will you coordinate this with EVERY SINGLE POSSIBLE REAL TIME SYSTEM OUT THERE?
etc.
etc.
etc.

The existing system works. In the US, it takes 4 days - faster than sending a check by mail. The cost to upgrade to a realtime system would be exorbitant. The infrastructure costs just to have your debit card check your balance "right now" at the POS is immense.

One day the banks MAY speed things up - but why would they be motivated to do so at present? Cause you want your money now instead of in a couple days? Like they care? Until SOMEONE starts offering this service (and how can they, unless everyone does it at the same time), they don't have to care.