Greebo....

**kaurand554** · 10-08-2010, 01:10 AM

Can you explain this?

Did you know that a 4 year student paying $20,000/year who finances their education graduates with over $103,000 in debt to start? But a student who works and pays cash and takes 6 years to graduate ends with $6,300 in their pocket! So much for "getting a head start by financing!"

I don't understand it? How did you figure that? I am really curious?

Did you have a base salary? Interest rate? Some have no interest rate, based on income; did you figure pell grants, scholarships, etc? Income guidelines = no interest loans til you graduate?

Personally, I am curious? how you came up with numbers... and I can in no way imagine why anyone would spend 20,000 a year in first two years when they can go to community college for 4,000 if that a year; ultimately associates does not matter it is where you get your bachelors degree from.... so you only spend $ for last 2.... and again based on income........grants etc....

I know you are highly respected on the forum; and I hate to think that someone is dissuaded from exploring college cause it will mean more debt.. based on your forethought post.... it all depends on income.... you can qualify for 5,500.00 a year if your income is low enough.... which equals 2 years of community college for free :-)...

Just a thought :-)

**Greebo** · 10-08-2010, 08:41 AM

Originally Posted by kaurand554

Can you explain this?

Did you know that a 4 year student paying $20,000/year who finances their education graduates with over $103,000 in debt to start? But a student who works and pays cash and takes 6 years to graduate ends with $6,300 in their pocket! So much for "getting a head start by financing!"

I don't understand it? How did you figure that? I am really curious?

Did you have a base salary? Interest rate? Some have no interest rate, based on income; did you figure pell grants, scholarships, etc? Income guidelines = no interest loans til you graduate?

Hmm - I really need to fix my sig line. I came up with the $100,000 amount because I thought student loans charged interest while you were in school - but I was mistaken on that point. Actually the number should be $80,000 - but even that's pretty darn bad.

The thread in question where I explain the reasoning (which is later corrected) is here:
The true cost of financing education

Personally, I am curious? how you came up with numbers... and I can in no way imagine why anyone would spend 20,000 a year in first two years when they can go to community college for 4,000 if that a year; ultimately associates does not matter it is where you get your bachelors degree from.... so you only spend $ for last 2.... and again based on income........grants etc....

But people do - because they don't have the good judgment you do, or they don't have the same knowledge you do. I hear stories far too often about how people got 80,90,100k in student loan debt to get a BA or MA in SOCIAL SERVICES - a 30k / yr job - or similar low pay careers. Not to mention, almost 50% of college students in the US don't finish.

I know you are highly respected on the forum; and I hate to think that someone is dissuaded from exploring college cause it will mean more debt.. based on your forethought post.... it all depends on income.... you can qualify for 5,500.00 a year if your income is low enough.... which equals 2 years of community college for free :-)...

Just a thought :-)

Now why should someone be dissuaded from college because they shouldn't go into debt to get an education? My sig line, mathematically incorrect as it is, stresses the importance of doing school *WITHOUT* debt. It in no way says, "Don't go to college".

Lets avoid putting words in my mouth, please.

**Inkstain82** · 10-08-2010, 08:54 AM

Not going to college has become an incredibly underrated option.

**Greebo** · 10-08-2010, 09:02 AM

Originally Posted by Inkstain82

Not going to college has become an incredibly underrated option.

I do agree. NOT everyone should go to college. Not everyone needs it or will do well there. Not everyone is going to pursue a career where college yields much benefit.

Education - absolutely. But education can be gotten w/o college.

**Inkstain82** · 10-08-2010, 09:10 AM

A couple is a close friend of mine at work.

Her: Went to college for journalism, is now our features editor.

Him: Worked at home depot out of high school, got up to assistant manager, moved out here with her and now works in our pressroom.

They make almost identical salaries, and he has significantly more savings. He'd be on his way to early retirement if not for his video-game habit (what an expensive hobby that has become so common).

Of course, journalism isn't the best example. I've got four years of experience on top of my college education and make $24,440, which puts me ahead of a majority of my peers who graduated at the same time.

**gmarie** · 10-08-2010, 10:51 AM

I agree that not everyone should go to college or get that extra degree!

My husband lost his job last year and decided to go back to school. It was an associates degree he started years ago and didn't finish - so yes, the 22k it cost to finish it was absolutely worth it. Finishing something you start IS important.

However, it was only very recently that he came to his senses about the additional bachelors degree! The extra degree would involve him working part time (the school doesn't offer a PT program) for the next 18 months while incurring another $50,000 in tuition expenses. our financial aid/ grants were very minimal. We would have had to borrow most of it - putting us at about $130,000 in consumer debt!! In our 30s! Absolutely crazy.

Instead, he was promoted at the part time job he worked at while in school, and is now making his old salary, working 30 hrs LESS per WEEK, with benefits, vacation time, AND a better title! AND we don't have an expensive move!

If you ask him, he will complain that this is not what he *wants* to do (working at a mom and pop place in the country). And I bet his family is "disappointed" -- but you know what, I JUST DON'T CARE! I think it's wonderful :-)

**Pianolady** · 10-08-2010, 05:08 PM

It depends on the student whether going to college right from high school is a great idea, for some it's not. A top ranked student with $18k in grants and scholarships per year needs to go to college asap! Not to do so would be silly, take advantage of the aid. A student working (or has saved the money) and paying his own tuition in full needs to go. If a student has a trust fund waiting for him for college, why not go? A student with little ambition and no way to pay for it without accumulating a huge debt, should look into other options. I could go on all day with "what ifs". Personally, I graduated twice with no debt, so it can be done. I've got two in college now, and believe me, they are not paying anywhere near $20k per year to attend, although the school claims $18k is the yearly cost....it's not after grants and scholarships (if you qualify). You can't get the financial aid if you never apply, it's a job in itself if you apply for everything you can find.

There are so many variables with the decision whether to attend college right out of high school (or any other time), that there is no one right answer that can apply to everyone. I personally don't know anyone that is really paying $20k per year to go to college. If they are, they should be looking harder for grants and scholarships, working, or finding a lower-cost school.

**Greebo** · 10-16-2010, 02:52 PM

Originally Posted by Pianolady

It depends on the student whether going to college right from high school is a great idea, for some it's not. A top ranked student with $18k in grants and scholarships per year needs to go to college asap! Not to do so would be silly, take advantage of the aid.

A student getting 18k a year isn't gonna need loans if they go to the right school.

**Momto5RN** · 10-16-2010, 09:14 PM

top ranked kids arent getting scholarship money like they use to. i really think they need to refigure that based on the economy now. aluminis that use to donate have lost money in stock market - their companies have folded etc not as much is being donated.

in NJ the state is cutting back on so much to get us out of a deficeit - use to be the top 20% of each grad class could go to a community college for 5 semesters for free classes - thats on hold last i heard.

state college $ being taken away by state is = higher state college tuitions .

.

colleges in my are very $$$ compared to what i see people say in their areas.

there is also a ton of students trying to get into them .
the way i see it if some little college from the mid west is seding college info to my kid in NJ - they are looking for students- around here they are turning them away .

i have had college teachers tell me that kids who went to CC were behind a bit when they got to their last 2 years at some of the bigger schools , things they should have known well from step 1 or 2 they didnt .

so depending on what you are planning to do may depend on if CC near you is good for you .

also many 4 year colleges have started to implement classes you need to specialize in your degree in the 3rd semester ( not year ) if not the second ( esp for nursing )

and they basically tell you that the course load and labs etc are so hard to not even plan on many social activities its so tough - and none hold jobs on the weekdays esp since you may have clinicals one week in the day and the next in the PM

so if you do 2 year to get basics -
then go on to 2 year bigger name college - so you are still in your 1st semester of your second year -
you cant take the next course until you finish the first ( ie cant take nursing 2 until you finish nursing 1 ) one so you end up in school an extra year .

NOW you have to pay to get courses you may not even really need... but need to take to have enough credits to stay on your parents insurance as a FT student because you are now in school at least 5 years .

( which yes the insurances will HAUNT you about this - we had to send proof every semester our kids had at least 12 credits so they could stay on our insurance !)

my oldest son was in top 10% of class. at a school that for christian colleges automatically upped him up to 7% because it was a harder school .

because we are middle area income for our area ( although they dont take into acct we have 5 kids - i have medical issues etc ) he was not eligble for any state money - we live in same county as camden NJ so as you can imagine the middle income people arent getting any state money unless they got perfect SAT's

he went to a state college @ ~ 9000 a year .

why no other scholarships - well i am not disabled- not a vet that died in war- we are not low income- or spanish or african american -or have relatives in the past 2 generations directly from poland or italy- no one is a cop - we are not dead- we do not have a mental illness - we are not homesexual- he didnt do dance or go for teaching - ( they had specializied private scholarships for these issues donated by alumnis which i think is great but alot of money they advertise alumini gives out is very specialized as those categories above show )
we did searches for scholarships for him online - 90% seem to expect you to work FT - go to school FT - do a zillion after school activities and volunteer 8 hours a day too and then write an essay about how you do it all.

Sorry my son belonged to a real life family - and he had to help at home and sometimes babysit and did volunteer and do some activities but wasnt joe jock or class president or mother teresa .

so nothing much was out there for a guy going for an accounting degree .

he got several very nice scholarships for big philly colleges but not one made his tuition less then the NJ state university and he HAD to live in campus to get those scholarships ( which is a new thing alot of colleges do now around here - two of my neices had nice scholarships but they had to keep a 3.0 and live on campus to keep them)

HE made the choice to live away which doubled his student loan costs . But it was his choice and i really cannot blame him - not everyone lives in an enviroment that may be best for school and study - he was the oldest of 5 his youngest sibling was 6 at the time he went away -his 15 yo sister was constantly PMSy and plain loud- needless to say not a quiet house .

we actually figured between gas- wear and tear on the car - having to buy meals / food plan he really wasnt saving alot a year living at home - esp since to study in a quiet enviroment at the library he needed to have a high priced meal plan ( umm okay i know someone will say he could pack lunch and dinner carry it in a bag and risk it going bad- and since 9/11 carrying a cooler around with you well it would get you stopped by campus police i am sure )

it was more to live in the dorm than to rent a house and make his own meals though and the colleges often make you to live on site as a freshman if you are coming right from HS .( they say to better help you adjust - i say to make more $$ ) after that first year you can commute - live on or off campus etc .

oh and you were right student loans do accrue interest at least his did and several loans now require you pay the interest monthly - not all let you wait till 6 months after you graduate to start the payment of interest and loans ..

i look at it this way if one can do it from home - going to CC while working etc more power to them -but reality is that although i have never heard anyone question dave on this -i think he is a bit out of the loop on some stuff with colleges -

i dont know if he realizes the whole health benefits issues out there .- i - because it doesnt really affect him because its probably not an issue he has to worry about he probably has his kids on private pay type of insurance anyway since he owns his own company .

but if you dont have a FT job with bene's while a student ( which good luck even finding that at a unskilled job around here ) and you dont go to school FT because you are working to pay in cash and do not have the time to study work FT and go to class each day ( alot depends on your major and your abilities also ) well without FT credits you arent covered by mom and dads insurance .

well say you break your leg - need your appendix out - and you have possibly accrued more medical debt in less then a week then what your student loans will be .

i hear many stories on frugal lists when people explain wher ethey are and why that someone started PT college had to quit for whatever reason -money- pregnancy etc planned to go back - next thing they are married then kids they never do it and are stuck in the same go no where type of job for years while they are abused by crappy bosses who know they have them inbetween a rock and a hard place - 20 years later not alot has changed . they are tired they are frustrated and they ae still broke money wise and emotionally wise .

i see it this way - in 10 years my son will have his loans paid off- with in his mindset possibly earlier he wants them gone -he has had a FT job for 4 months and has already paid 2000 on loans he hasnt needed to even start paying yet .

he will have a degree he can use in many different ways - he came out of college starting in a job that is higher income then alot of the one and two income families i see posting here .

**Momto5RN** · 10-16-2010, 09:22 PM

meanwhile on the flip side my oldest dd isnt 100% sure what she wants to do she is thinking nursing - would like to specialize in maternity or psych nursiing she is very smart common sense wise ( much needed in nursing IMO ) but a low B average grade wise in HS-because she was busy with some of her school activities and honestly she was never an A student .
and the nursing schools in the range she was willing to take loans out for didnt take her they want staright A's all the way so she is taking her basic courses at CC - she paid with fed stafford loans first year is paying cash this year

but we already ran into an issue where she wanted to take one less class to work more to save for her second semester and she couldnt or she would have lost her insurance thru us. so the amount of time she has to study is less now .

i dunno i am on a see- saw with this one
having any kind of debt stinks i think its better to not have any at all but not everyone has the same college opportunities out their back door .

i see college as kind of an investment debt as long as you are planning well and make sure what you are going into has job oppotunities to go along with it .

i see alot graduation with degrees in things they ae interested in but there is no jobs out there in those things and when the economy was good still didnt have alot of jobs.

i am all for following dreams but if your dreasm cant help you survive/ buy food sometimes its better to leave it as a hobby and find a job that pays the bills first -

i also do not believe everyone needs to go to college -i think one needs a skill of some sort that is marketable in all economies whether it be from a degree or a skill / trade .

**Keildra** · 10-17-2010, 01:33 AM

I started technical school right after high school, I had a part time job which helped pay for it. The first semester I only went part time and I had to pay full price for the two classes I took. They were a little over $400 each (discounted because I paid in full) and I had to pay about $75 for all the books I needed. The only reason I had to pay full price is because I registered too late for financial aid and I filled out FAFSA too late but about six weeks after the semester started I got reimbursed $756, not to mention money I got back from my books at the end of the semester. The next semester, since the school had my FAFSA on file, the classes were only about $150 each, and since I had been saving that first semester, I could afford to go full time plus I had an automatic scholarship for being a return student. I had to take this year off because I had a baby but I've already made arrangements to return next semester without losing my return student scholarship. The career I'm looking into (computer sciences) only requires an associates, so yes I am going have to take an extra semester but, if everything goes well, I'm going to graduate and start my career before my friends that decided to finance four year college even make it out of their junior year. Also if necessary I can build onto my degree with certifications.

**littleplum** · 10-20-2010, 05:05 PM

Actually, unsubsidized loans DO accumulate interest while you are in school or while the loans are in deferment. I have one loan of each kind. They are small though. I finished my Associates with only $10,000 in debt. My income was too high for Pell grants, but too low to pay for my classes with cash and still feed, clothe, and shelter myself.