How do you talk to a "spender" spouse?

[Sumacaroni]

What do you say? What do you do? How do you manage? How do you discuss rationale? And the bottom line is, how does one manage to avoid ARGUMENT about the reasoning for doing what we're doing and staying on track? Must we sit down every single week and have a printed budget? (Maybe this is an obvious solution for us but he really doesn't want to do this, doesn't care enough, just very selfish I think. He rolls his eyes and thinks I'm the Cash Nazi.) We agreed to $20/person in our weekly budget and he really doesn't care to look at where our money is going as long as he gets to do what he "wants" and it is so frustrating. Our spending cash is $20 each per week, should I just increase it to $30 each?

I am the wife with a good-paying part-time job, he is the spender with a full-time job and seems to use these arguments: "I work hard so why can't I have ANY money?" "So what then... I can't have ANY money? ever?" or whatever.... it's always something similar and he just goes and takes $60, or $100 with the ATM card when he's going out garage saling or spending on stuff that is not in the plan. And if he doesn't use it all, it never gets put back.... it just goes POOF. Until I realize it's been taken and then I have to SAY something, he'll never bring up the subject. And I have been watching like a hawk now and saying something but then I get the argument, "Holy crap, am I not allowed any access to the bank money?"

It seems we do fine if I am the one pulling out "spending" cash every week BEFORE he doesn't have any cash left. It seems he has no limits to how much he is willing to spend to satisfy his compulsive spending on garage sales, auctions, a "bargain" or whatever. (I know there IS a limit but it appears that number is in the $100's.) I think if you're going garage saling then $20 or $30 is reasonable but it should come from our earmarked "spending money" and he should have to "save" from week to week to stockpile for it. Maybe I am being unreasonable, maybe I need to increase his weekly money??

One of the things I've tried to say to rationalize and help him see how harmful this is, "If you take $60, then am I not entitled to $60? And if we do that, we're up to $120 for this week. That's $80 more than we budgeted."

He *thinks* I spend a lot of money but never do I spend $$ that is not budgeted, I am paying bills - I am paying a LOT of bills and buying groceries, household supplies, and other categorized budget items.

Frustrating. I know there is more I could detail here but I am really looking to figure out how to get this under control. We've been married 20 years and I know this is a psychological thing with him, is it that way for everyone or just "spenders"? I really believe some of it comes from his personal family history = his dad is literally a HOARDER and definitely a spender who grew up during Great Depression years. Why does my husband feel the need to spend on useless things? Why does he think in his brain it's just fine to buy something just "in case" we need it or because it is a "bargain"??? It would take me another 20 years to tell you all about it. He loves watching American Pickers - those guys are like heroes to him. I know he believes old crap is "treasures" rather than money-sucking space-wasting rusty old garbage like I do.

I thought of another way but don't know if this is self-defeating or worthwhile. Should I just give him $200 and tell him it's for 12 weeks? Somehow I feel he will burn through it so fast and will come looking for more money just as fast.

Bottom line is: I need compelling reasoning and discussion points and I thought maybe you all could offer some advice. Thanks!

[monkeywrangler71]

If he can't hang on to his money for a week, he's not going to be able to make it last 12. He'd be through that $200 in a couple days then be taking more.

I don't know if anything works to change his attitude. I couldn't. I used to just cut off access to all the money - which helps to make sure you keep afloat, but the resentment and the behaviour gets worse because they will intentionally act out just to get back at you. I solved it on my end with a divorce - 15 years later and he's still never learned to control himself.

On the other hand, $20 a week is not much money. That's how much allowance I was getting as a teenager, 25 years ago. If the budget has room to move, you might want to revisit that amount.

[Sumacaroni]

On the other hand, $20 a week is not much money. That's how much allowance I was getting as a teenager, 25 years ago. If the budget has room to move, you might want to revisit that amount.

I don't know... I could *up* the amount but we are trying to get rid of debt and remain gazelle intense plus we are really actually in Emergency Mode. $1040/year for him, $1040/year for me is $2080/year and that seems like a lot to me?? I mean, I was diagnosed with breast cancer in February and we need to buckle down as I am not working as much while I am recovering and still face another surgery and more time off this summer (=less paychecks and accumulating medical expenses).

I just really KNOW he can't continue to just take and take and take and I need to know how to communicate that effectively without argument. I don't need any more stress, it is not good for living.

[kita]

Does he need more control in his life? You are sick...he can't fix that, You pay all the bills...no control. He goes to work...where he has a boss...
If you think you can do this with out totally trashing the budget, you might find ways to let him "spend" the money in other categories.
"honey, I dont' feel so well, I'm really tired, can you run done to the electric company and write a check for the utitlities? Oh, and pick up some groceries on the way back? We need milk and the bread that is on sale."
Well, going to the store can be an issue for anyone but he might feel better if can at least sign some of the checks for money that it going out rather than "here is my paycheck of more than a thousand dollars, thanks for the couple of tens...."
And yes, if you have the bills under control, with a BF, it may be more productive in the long run to increase the blow money...

[greekislandgirl]

I've only been married for a little over a year, so take everything I say with a grain of salt heh.

I think Kita's suggestion is a great one. "I'm feeling a little worn out lately [to be expected!!], how about you take over the monthly bills for a little while." (You can oversee this.)

Are you fully on the same page goal-wise? The "where do we want to be in 5, 10, 20 years?" conversation.

I gave my DH the rent, electricity bill, and car payment as his responsibility to pay. I still handle the small stuff like groceries but by letting him spend the bulk of our income on a monthly basis, he appreciates that there's not that much left over.

We don't do the "allowance" thing because I think it can lead to resentment. I don't want him to hand me €1000 and me to turn around and give him a twenty. That just seems too painful. Instead, I just trust him to give me an accounting of what he spends (with receipts, if possible, for tax purposes), and I write it down, but I try really really hard to keep judgment out of my voice and I always praise him for a good deal or if he passed on something he might normally have bought. (He had a business trip last week and gave me his list of expenditures when he got home and I said "€78 on food??" and immediately I regretted it. I know restaurants here are expensive and he had no choice, and I kicked myself for doing that. Bad wife moment.) Since I also write down my own, it's not "unfair," and he can still spend more if he wants to - he doesn't really, because he's not much of a spender, and I think he really is committed to our goals (in the sense that he wants the house, car, whatever), which we talk about every few months to stay on the same page.

[khaski]

I would try to get a one time sit down to go over all your monthly bills together. Don't make it a 'you have to see how I'm right' talk but rather a 'let's take look and see where we can compromise' talk. It may open his eyes to your actual in vs out flow. You do not mention your debts, what I have found helps reel in my spend husband is to remind him that its true, despite all the money coming in right now, we have very little wiggle room as we are aggressively snowballing our debts. I remind him we are paying back the money we borrowed, as in spent before we made it, and now we are paying for our decisions in the past to borrow. I have also a time or two calculated and written out how much per month, and for how long, we would be paying off debts if we loosen up and pay the minimum or double it vs our aggressive snowballing. Usually is enough to remind him our short term sacrifices are worth it. I also try to make a point to let him do some of his things too, no matter how reluctant I am about it. For instance, despite the fact we will soon be paying out $550 for a cosmetic repair on his car, we have agreed that in July he will purchase a part to upgrade his engine for $600. I thinly its a waste of money and stupid, but he's wanted it for 6+ months and he works 70+ hours a week. So despite not being debt free yet, we're compromising. Have you asked hubby what he thinks his weekly budget should be to see if you guys can find a # you both can live with? I have such sympathy for you, it stinks to feel like the cash Nazi!

[a.nonymous]

Bottom line is: I need compelling reasoning and discussion points and I thought maybe you all could offer some advice. Thanks!

Instead of focusing on the "mechanics" of how/where/what to spend (on), you should first and foremost share a vision of where the two of you want to be financially in the next quarter, year, then 5 years.

If you are in agreement about why you are doing this, why you are sacrificing, the rest is a matter of "setting the pace" so to speak.

Focus on talking about how you would like your situation to look like in the near, mid-term, and slightly longer term future. Long term should be fairly easy to agree on (more than enough money, retiring in dignity, traveling usually are the top of the list).

Once the two of you have agreed upon your goals, let that sink in a bit. I don't mind even letting a month go by without a fixed plan. Only do keep track meticulously of where the money went.

After the month is done, sit together again and have that reality check: With the way we spent the money the last month, will we be able to hit the goals?
If not, you are facing two options: reducing the goals or sacrificing to reach them.

The rest comes naturally. Don't be afraid to give your husband more leeway in his spending as long as you make any progress on your debt. But do make sure he understands that the budget is a written agreement and your road map to your goals.
Once he gets used to the budget, you can always sit back down and discuss about cutting blow money fraction by fraction. Don't force it, though. If it works for him, I would be surprised if he does not want to accelerate the pace by giving up a bit of his blow money.

Cutting a mere 3-5% every second month will add up over the span of a year or two. From there on, you will find an amount both of you can live with. When it's an equally slightly uncomfortable amount for each of you, you have found the sweet spot.

[Ceashels]

I think Kita's suggestion is a great one. "I'm feeling a little worn out lately [to be expected!!], how about you take over the monthly bills for a little while." (You can oversee this.)

Are you fully on the same page goal-wise? The "where do we want to be in 5, 10, 20 years?" conversation.

I gave my DH the rent, electricity bill, and car payment as his responsibility to pay. I still handle the small stuff like groceries but by letting him spend the bulk of our income on a monthly basis, he appreciates that there's not that much left over.

I think this is a great idea. Now it can obviously backfire... but then that "oops" may just be the reality that needs to be learned.

Perhaps sitting down each time a large bill needs to be paid so he can see just how and how much of the money does go out to cover the basics.

[Cricketlegs]

That's a tough problem to have when both parties don't see the money path in the same way.

My dh and I do good with ours but we do have our issues. I am a pay it down until there isn't any left and dh is we have to have money in the savings account in case we need it guy.

We are both right and both wrong.

I pretty much do the budget and the bills and I do a dang good job at it but lately dh has been asking more questions and adding his input and it has all been fine on both sides of the coin.

Me I am ready to start a new snowball and dh wants more money in savings...grrrr. Is money in savings better than paying for extra interest????? See the issues. All couples have them.

Blow money of what we call allowances. You NEED them. Period. You also need to work within the budgeted amount or whats the point right? So this is your issue as a couple.

If you can stay on your plan and up the allowances DO IT. He isn't going to listen and you are the big bad heavy in the equasion.

Up BOTH your allowances. Try and be reasonable to his feelings but true to the plan and budget. If you want you can save yours on the "sly" so to speak as it belongs to YOU and that is not dishonest so you have a little nest egg security for your own peace of mind. Don't tell him, it is not his money or his business.

I hope this works out for you!

[MomToTwoBoys]

I find that having the spender spouse watch an episode of Till Debt Do Us Part is a great icebreaker. You can find episodes of it online that tailor specifically to having one spender spouse and a large majority of them show how spending that much money can really disintegrate your relationship.

I think a lot of "spender" spouses believe that if you change their spending habits, that restricts their freedoms and then they become resentful. The point of the talk is to show them that while they can still spend, they can be smarter about it.

I won't lie. I'm a spender spouse. So is DH. It takes a lot of restraint to get both of us to not go back to the way things used to be. I wouldn't expect a sudden change of lifestyle overnight; You both are going to have to be willing to be in it for the long haul.

[krbshappy71]

I really believe some of it comes from his personal family history = his dad is literally a HOARDER and definitely a spender who grew up during Great Depression years. Why does my husband feel the need to spend on useless things? Why does he think in his brain it's just fine to buy something just "in case" we need it or because it is a "bargain"??? It would take me another 20 years to tell you all about it. He loves watching American Pickers - those guys are like heroes to him. I know he believes old crap is "treasures" rather than money-sucking space-wasting rusty old garbage like I do.

If he's inherited a mental illness, your monthly meetings wont get you very far until he seeks help. There are professional counselors that deal in the specific area of hoarding. This may not be about the money as much as about the acquiring.

Hugs to you.

[ml2620]

I have a spender spouse like yours, we have an antique flea market near our house and I literally have to sneak money out of his wallet and send my MIL to supervise to keep him from spending hundreds every week.

We've got a barn full of crap but we have reached an agreement. He's setting up a booth at the flea market this spring and whatever he makes from selling his old stuff is what he can spend on the new stuff. If he runs out of money sooner than he would like, he's got to have another yard sale or flea market booth.

He owns a moving company so their is never a lack or free stuff, not to mention his recent new hobby of curb shopping aka garbage picking.

He likes proving his stuff is worth money and making a profit, I like not being shocked by the money being spent.

Maybe worth a try?

[Ramona]

Big salads with buttered Italian bread.

[Ramona]

Big salads with buttered Italian bread.

I've just realized this post is in the wrong place, please excuse.

[greekislandgirl]

I will admit that I did spend a few minutes trying to find the metaphorical significance in that comment. I didn't come up with much, but I tried.