Does anyone out there FARM???????

**FarmerSue** · 07-22-2007, 03:11 PM

Now that the personal side of our debt has been taken care of, except the mortgage, I feel like I really can never declare I'm debt free!!! until we address the farm debt.
Do you consider your farm debt as a different beast altogether or do you lump it right in and snowball just like personal debt? I'm embarassed to admit this but I'm even scared to go looking at that end of the filing cabinet. My husband and I are very good at keeping everything separate, farm money pays for farm stuff, it never pays a visa bill or personal debt, which is why we needed so much off farm income.
The whole idea of tackling the farm debt with Dave Ramsey principles sounds great but those numbers are HUGE!!!!! YIKES!
And I mean some stuff never really seems to get paid off, fuel bills, machinery payments etc. I can't imagine getting to the point where we can pay cash for our farm business. I know there are people out there who do it I'm sure, I just don't know any of them.

If you farm, do you keep a running list of all your farm debt or do you prefer not to know?

I would consider it the biggest accomplishment of my life, besides raising three great kids, to pay off all of our farm debt and get us operating on a cash basis..........okay all you farm wives, you can quit laughing now!

**frugalfarmwife** · 07-23-2007, 07:52 AM

We farm but not on a large scale, and don't have any equiptment debt, we use oldies but goodies that hubby keeps running with spit, wire and baling twine, lol! Our newest piece of equiptment is a 12 year old disc bine, the tractors are from the 50's-70's (hubby is SO excited, lol, traded his late 60's Oliver for a 70's White, you'd think it was brand new the way he loves that thing!).

We have chickens, turkeys, a few head of cattle and miniature horses, mainly we break even and feed ourselves. We lease out a good portion of the land in return for work in return (help with baling, oats for feed, etc). Our goal is to not only be self sufficient, but to actually turn a REAL profit one day, lol!

All of our bills are considered together, nothing separate. I know for larger scale farming the costs are astronomical, I would have a great fear of touching that side of the filing cabinet too if I were you!

Farming is a VERY satisfying way of life but most have no clue of what really goes into it, I have the GREATEST respect for those that can do it on a larger scale full time! So kudos to you!!!

kj

**nodmicks** · 07-23-2007, 07:56 AM

We have a 10 acre hobby farm. We have a hay field, goats and ducks.

**Odilia** · 07-23-2007, 09:33 AM

We farm 640 acres, and we do have land payments, and we just took on another payment to increase the beef herd side. We pay for equipment, seed, feed, etc., with cash...BUT...my husband works off the farm, too. We also don't buy new equipment. Hubby buys other's cast-offs and brings them back to life. He's an excellent mechanic. We're praying and working for the day when he will quit his town job. We thought we'd be there by now (5 years on our homestead), but we're not. We're closer, though!

My parents farm traditionally, and there's no paying off that operating loan until after my dad dies. The loan amount goes way down in good years and climbs back up in the bad years. In his 60's now, the loan is now down to a decent level -- even in the bad years. But, I just can't imagine that it'll be paid off until he's gone.

**my4littlebuffaloes** · 07-23-2007, 12:14 PM

I don't farm, but wanted to comment on the debt. I think you are right to keep farm and personal stuff separate. To the extent of farm money pays for farm things. However now that you are debt free except the house on the personal side, I can see making extra payments from the personal side to the farm side to get out of that debt quicker. Good luck and WTG on being debt free.

**FarmerSue** · 07-23-2007, 04:44 PM

Hmmmm.....I don't know maybe you're right, maybe I sould be starting to plunge in to that side of the debt. I've always left that side of our life up to my hubby and he's always never steered us wrong. We've been farming for 15 years. My father-in-law dropped dead when my husband was 19 and he's been farming 6 quarters of land ever since. Our cattle herd is completely paid off....120 head of black angus. And can you believe with that he still can't quit his off farm job? This week I will sit down and figure out all the farm debt. It won't be pretty. But on the other hand think of how much of it would be paid for if we wouldn't have had the personal debt!!!!!!!!!!
I'll list each debt, how much is owing and the interest rate. GULP!!!!!!

**santoria** · 07-23-2007, 05:58 PM

my parents have a tree farm/nursery they have everything separate. the corporation occasionally buys gifts for the family, and other...but its all separate under a corporate umbrella.

**PrairieRose** · 07-24-2007, 08:20 AM

We don't farm anymore but when we did we tried very hard to keep it all separate. It was very disheartening to work all year long just to pay the bank back. This was years before our commitment to becoming debt free however. I do think it can be done if you really watch your p's and q's and don't buy new equipment and get off of the spending to save in taxes treadmill....oh that's a big trap. It eventually catches up.

**frugalfarmwife** · 07-24-2007, 09:58 AM

Odilla the thought of 640 acres just astounds me! In our area (rural, an hour from Cleveland, 1 1/2 hours from Cols) Land has shot through the roof, farms are being broken up left and right and "McMansions" are popping up everywhere. We were VERY fortunate to purchase our origional place with 48 acres, there was a moto cross right next door over the hill and no one else wanted to live here, the sellers took a HUGE loss (we bought at auction) The front 36 acres were bought by a developer to put in modulars, but he was going bankrupt and I tracked him down and bought the land for what he paid for it (we got LUCKY"!) as soon as it was published that we bought it I had developers calling trying to buy it. The Citiots across the street also got the moto cross closed because it was "cramping their style", but that's a whole other rant, lol. (They don't tick me off, I make comments about putting in a hog barn upwind of them!)

Just 2 weeks ago a 91 acre dairy farm, older house, 3 barns went for $800,000! The buyer? A farmer from near Cleveland that just sold his 80 acre farm to a developer for 3 million, yep million. Other than that the farms are disappearing here, land is easily going for up to $10,000 an acre and up for building lots!

It's a sad thing to see, who's going to feed the future generations?

Oh, and the land just north and in front of us? He's got 80 acres and they're in poor health, the kids will auction it, so yep, will be another development, sigh.

kj

**annymoll** · 07-24-2007, 10:26 AM

I know of one person in our area that does farming solely for a living. The others do it for a write off of some sort.Many people have the farms tied up in government programs which pay them NOT to farm, or to make improvements to the farm.(Go to Farm subsidy data base. It will let you pick a state and see every person or farm corporation that receives these subsidies and exactly how much, and wha for, over a period of several years.Some receive millions.)We know several farmers that have their farm payments set up on a yearly basis to coincide with disbursements- helps make the farm payments.Many of these farmers would grow corn and other crops, or could be, but are paid not to.The corn that is grown is now being used for other purposes than feeding people or livestock.Craziness.

**Odilia** · 07-24-2007, 10:31 AM

Wow, frugalfarmwife, those prices are astounding! Out here, land prices keep going up and up and up, too, but thankfully, they're nowhere near the prices in your area. Still, we couldn't buy our land today, so we're very happy we made the move 5 years ago.

We live an hour's drive to the nearest town with a population of over 20,000. The town where we do most of our shopping, where we go to church, etc., has just over 400 people in it. The "big" town where the hospital and a couple of larger stores (larger being relative...LOL!) is 30 miles away and has about 2500 people. We're safe from the developers for awhile!

Here, it's the corporate farms that are driving up prices and buying everything in sight.

**frugalfarmwife** · 07-24-2007, 10:43 AM

Annymoll that just frustrates me the way the government "gravy train" is set and those that ride it, we NEED to feed our own country! And yes, WAY to much land was planted in corn in our area and the weather has not been good, to dry, but those farmers have all been promised a price by the new ethanol plants their putting in so that's what their growing. Feed prices are going through the roof and hay is scarce in many parts of the country, it's a scary time. I know on the horse end of things MANY people are between a rock and a hard place, horses are a recreational activity and when things get tight (like now) the bottom drops out of the market. And in some areas of the country IF they can get hay it's going for up to $8-10 per small square bale, that's if they can get it.

Oh, and Farmersue, my hubby would just LOVE to have a herd like yours someday, what a huge accomplishment that is for you! We have a few head of cattle for now and love their goofy personalities (but yes, I CAN and DO eat them!)

kj

**annymoll** · 07-24-2007, 11:06 AM

Originally Posted by frugalfarmwife

Annymoll that just frustrates me the way the government "gravy train" is set and those that ride it, we NEED to feed our own country! And yes, WAY to much land was planted in corn in our area and the weather has not been good, to dry, but those farmers have all been promised a price by the new ethanol plants their putting in so that's what their growing. Feed prices are going through the roof and hay is scarce in many parts of the country, it's a scary time. I know on the horse end of things MANY people are between a rock and a hard place, horses are a recreational activity and when things get tight (like now) the bottom drops out of the market. And in some areas of the country IF they can get hay it's going for up to $8-10 per small square bale, that's if they can get it.

kj

The way I understand it, there is food for people. Sometimes it sits, so that prices can be increased.It does not look or sound good to me.Reminds me of paying 10 bucks for an aspirin during a hospital stay.When everyone knows there is aspirin.

**PrairieRose** · 07-24-2007, 04:52 PM

Originally Posted by annymoll

I know of one person in our area that does farming solely for a living. The others do it for a write off of some sort.Many people have the farms tied up in government programs which pay them NOT to farm, or to make improvements to the farm.(Go to Farm subsidy data base. It will let you pick a state and see every person or farm corporation that receives these subsidies and exactly how much, and wha for, over a period of several years.Some receive millions.)We know several farmers that have their farm payments set up on a yearly basis to coincide with disbursements- helps make the farm payments.Many of these farmers would grow corn and other crops, or could be, but are paid not to.The corn that is grown is now being used for other purposes than feeding people or livestock.Craziness.

Ok I don't want to get into a huge political debate on this subject but one thing that most folks who have never farmed don't understand is that the farmer does not set the price that he's paid for his crops, the government does. If there were no subsidies farmers would not be able to stay in business, with very few exceptions. The reason there are subsidies is because the government has always kept the prices low on grain crops. If the farmers are not able to farm who do we think will be raising the crops? In my mind I see only huge corporations (which there are more and more of) owning all the land or even worse the government itself. I for one don't want to ever see our government controlling all of our food. I know the farm programs are flawed but if we think the prices of foods and grains and hay are high now imagine if there were no controls on those prices (read gas prices!).

**annymoll** · 07-24-2007, 05:34 PM

There are subsidies being given on all aspects of farming, not just crops. There are some farmers and also corporations(Composed of individuals) who are doing quite well in farming.I believe the government will eventually control food. I believe it will control healthcare.Scary on both counts.More reason to be watchful, be frugal, be as self sufficent as possible.We buy land- as an investment.