I would really like some ideas/input here.

[Dutchie]

This is a complicated story but if you have the time and patience I would really appreciate some ideas/input.
I don't know yet what we can do about the situation without WW 3 breaking out in the family but I am convinced that something has to be done/said.

OK Our family.
DH - me and our 5 kids
DH's sister - divorced with 3 kids (all older kids in their 30's)
DH's brother divorced twice - now with 3 rd wife.
DH's parents - almost 80. Father in law just had a stroke/been operated on and is now back home and in poor health.

DH's sister will not do/say anything since she is very much for keeping the peace in all situations especially when something would affect my parents in law. She does see the problem and hopes that a solution will come at some time.

OK here goes.
16 years ago my BIL (Dh's brother) was married to a lady and they had 2 boys - wonderful kids. They got divorced and the relationship was tense but my BIL always looked after the kids - was never a dead beat dad etc.

Second wife - that was a lucky escape for the whole family but he was out of that marriage within 2 years. No kids.

Enter wife nr. 3.
She is 15 years younger than my BIL and rules the roost - what she wants she gets and what she wants to happen - happens.
She wanted a child - they had a child.

We have had them at the house a few times (just for the afternoon) and if she has one of her moods, then she will sit in the corner of a sofa and sulk - letting everyone know that she is not having a good time and she wants to leave.
One of the times that they were here I had to run after their son since they refused to do it. Of course you will say - you should just have left him - well then the child would be dead since he turned on my gas oven and was playing inside it - my (leather) sofa would be torn since he was jumping up and down on it with his shoes on - I could go on and on.

She works more than full time - started a clothes store just after the baby was born 4 years ago and now wants to open a 2nd store in another town about 40 minutes away which means of course that she will be at home even less.
My BIL works at the flower auction which means that he is up very early (starts work at 4 am) and then picks up their son at daycare when he is finished. She comes home late.

The problem is that he has 2 sons by his 1st wife (great kids) and his new wife has forced to him to have as little to do with them as possible. Birthdays are never celebrated for the 1st 2 sons because - 'their house is too small'. But a huge party is set up each year for the 3rd child. This hurts the 1st 2 kids to their soul now since they are at an age where they are more aware of this.
The boys are now 15 and 10.
The father has told the older kids that they can't stay with them in the weekend because he has to work on Sat. evening.
I know for a fact that this is just not true.
His wife doesn't want to have the kids there when she is home - she openly said this a couple of years ago since it was 'too busy for her".

The oldest son is also very angry with him because he had to hear from my kids (via the computer) a couple of days afterwards that his grandfather had had a stroke and was in the hospital. He has now decided that he wants nothing to do with his father.

I have just talked with my DH about it and we are in agreement that something definitely has to be done but we don't know what or how. But one thing is certain - as I said to him - the new wife knew about these kids when she married him and therefore has a certain amount of duty towards them.

I would like to say too - IMHO - she has a duty towards all of the 3 kids - but she doesn't even take responsibility for her own child. She does none of the raising of him (even talks about having a 2nd one but thank goodness my BIL put his foot down on that one). The child they have together will be 4 years old next month and is due to start kindergarten the day after his birthday and he isn't potty trained. He wears a diaper constantly and always has a pacifier. If we dare to say anything about this, we are told that he isn't ready to give up his diaper or his pacifier. (The professional daycare company that the child attends will not do that kind of thing either - they say it is up to the parents since they don't have time for it.)

In any case - the question for me is - how can we best approach the matter of the older kids with my BIL without WW 3 breaking out and a HUGE family argument happening which WILL take it's toll on my parents law.

I have already said to my DH that I am more than willing to do it but I am not known for my diplomacy when I am emotionally involved and even though I mean it well, I would jump in with both feet and heads would roll. There has to be a way to solve this KWIM.
(My idea would be for BIL to find a spine for himself and use it. See what I mean regarding diplomacy.)
Any ideas/input is welcome.
Thank you for taking the time to read this.

[jas]

That is terrible that your bil would let wife3 push his kids out of his life! It does happen though. My own dad let his gf practically do that to us. Granted we were all adults, it still is horrible.
Bil needs to tell put her straight on his two other boys. It seems fireworks will eventually fiy anyway where your sil is concerned.
Good luck on whatever move is made. Those boys need to come first.

[Dutchie]

That is terrible that your bil would let wife3 push his kids out of his life! It does happen though. My own dad let his gf practically do that to us. Granted we were all adults, it still is horrible.
Bil needs to tell put her straight on his two other boys. It seems fireworks will eventually fiy anyway where your sil is concerned.
Good luck on whatever move is made. Those boys need to come first.

I agree with you but I have two ideas on this
1) he doesn't dare stand up to her for some reason or another - I am wondering if he has a pre-nup with her which could possibly be the reason (he and his own business went bankrupt just before he met her)
2) he is afraid that she may leave and he doesn't want another failed marriage

Regarding 2) the whole family would say good riddance because no one and I mean literally no one likes her. She always behaves like a spoiled child everywhere she goes.

Thank you for answering.

[Lady_V]

As a child who entertained images of 'the evil step-mother keeping daddy away' I have to tell you it hurts like hell to think daddy chose her over me.

As an adult who realizes that she never held a gun to his head if he tried to see us... I am angry at him for not coming to see us... period. It was not a matter of her not allowing him to... she didn't want us around, so he chose not to have us around. His choice.

I can understand how your nephew feels... it is easier to just say "I don't want to see them" instead of facing the pain because ... they don't want to see you.

Nothing can change her if she doesn't want to change. She knew before she said "I do" that he had 2 children. He knew he had them as well... they didn't stop being his kids before he took yet another wife.

Honestly... if SIL says she doesn't have time to have their birtday parties... I would have the party for my nephews, and invite everyone but her... and when she kicks and screams about not being invited, I would tell her "I'm sorry, I thought you were too busy to attend since you were too busy to throw it yourself". ... I am not known for holding things back either.

The whole world can tell BIL he needs to stand up for ALL his kids until we are all blue in the face... fact is... he already knows he needs to... he chooses not to.

Marriages do not always last forever, and he is living proof of that. A year down the road, his wife decides to leave him... what does he really have left? No wife, no love from his kids, and no respect from his own family.

What does wife1 say about wife3? Has she confronted BIL about the way the kids are treated?

I think your DH needs to have a sit down with his brother. All excuses aside... SIL can be painted as the most unloving stp-mom in history... but it honestly comes down to what your BIL is willing to lose.

[jdr250]

I completely understand how you feel, I have a situation with my sil. One where everyone sees the problem but no one wants to say anything even though it is affecting her child. Well it was driving me nuts not saying anything my family is one of those that you state your opinion fight, cry, then make up and you feel better because atleast you know you said something whether it fixes it or not, my dh's family not so much they are keep the peace at all costs. Well I told my dh that I was going to say something and he let me go for it so I spoke my peace gave my opinion and she defended her stance with all her might. Nothing has changed, but I feel better for having brought the issue to her attention, now she can't claim she didn't realize it was an issue and later on when her dd questions her moms choices, I can let her know that I atleast tried to help. So my opinion is get it off your chest, do it as calmly as you can and then let the chips fall where they may.

[IntlMom]

Honestly... if SIL says she doesn't have time to have their birtday parties... I would have the party for my nephews, and invite everyone but her... and when she kicks and screams about not being invited, I would tell her "I'm sorry, I thought you were too busy to attend since you were too busy to throw it yourself". ... I am not known for holding things back either.
What does wife1 say about wife3? Has she confronted BIL about the way the kids are treated?

I

I think ladyV's idea ROCKS!!!! You totally should do this!!!! and make sure to let us know how it goes!!

She asks a good question - what does wife1 (mom of the boys) have to sa about this?

keep us posted please!!

[Momto2Boyz]

Personally, I don't think there is much you can do about THEIR situation. All you can do is deal with YOUR situation. So here is my two cents... Don't discuss it with your BIL...TELL HIM that you are going to have a good relationship with ALL of your nephews and treat all 3 of them the same. Invite the older ones over for celebratory b-day dinners, etc...whatever you want. Don't give him or his wife the option to tell you know. They are your nephews and you can see them as much as you like.

As for telling him how or when to see his kids, you just can't do it. More than likely, you will cause a rift with (at the very least) the new wife, and then you won't see your BIL or the youngest child.

It's a delicate situation, I hope you find a solution that works for yo!

[Dutchie]

As a child who entertained images of 'the evil step-mother keeping daddy away' I have to tell you it hurts like hell to think daddy chose her over me.

As an adult who realizes that she never held a gun to his head if he tried to see us... I am angry at him for not coming to see us... period. It was not a matter of her not allowing him to... she didn't want us around, so he chose not to have us around. His choice.

I can understand how your nephew feels... it is easier to just say "I don't want to see them" instead of facing the pain because ... they don't want to see you.

Nothing can change her if she doesn't want to change. She knew before she said "I do" that he had 2 children. He knew he had them as well... they didn't stop being his kids before he took yet another wife.

Honestly... if SIL says she doesn't have time to have their birtday parties... I would have the party for my nephews, and invite everyone but her... and when she kicks and screams about not being invited, I would tell her "I'm sorry, I thought you were too busy to attend since you were too busy to throw it yourself". ... I am not known for holding things back either.

The whole world can tell BIL he needs to stand up for ALL his kids until we are all blue in the face... fact is... he already knows he needs to... he chooses not to.

Marriages do not always last forever, and he is living proof of that. A year down the road, his wife decides to leave him... what does he really have left? No wife, no love from his kids, and no respect from his own family.

What does wife1 say about wife3? Has she confronted BIL about the way the kids are treated?

I think your DH needs to have a sit down with his brother. All excuses aside... SIL can be painted as the most unloving stp-mom in history... but it honestly comes down to what your BIL is willing to lose.

I don't really see wife 1 a lot - maybe 4 times in the last 9 years but we have contact via a mutual friend. Wife 1 is the one who has grown and grown up in the last years compared to my BIL/her ex.
I know that wife 1 has tried to explain to her ex that he HAS to take some responsibility but since the emergence of wife 3, that responsibility has been tapering off more and more. Wife 1 seems to be helpless to stop it.
An example - the oldest son was having some troubles at school (about 2 or 3 years ago), wife 1 called and asked if he would go with her if possible to get it sorted out - unfortunately 'he didn't have time'. Finally wife 1 was able to figure it out. The son was playing up at school because he had been on the receiving end of the 1st 'we can't throw a birthday party' thing.... and he hadn't told his mother yet.
BIL has never been to school for even a show and tell or anything AT ALL for his kids.
I would like to mention that what wife 1 did for her kids - I think it was wonderful.
Even though she has some issues with my parents in law, when she heard that her ex-father in law was in hospital and saw that she/the kids couldn't expect anything from her ex regarding info, she took the kids and went to the hospital and didn't leave since the kids had seen their grandfather.

I am also of the opinion that I should throw the boy a birthday party but I will discuss it this evening with DH.
Now that would really put the cat in among the pidgeons, he he!!!
I just feel so sorry for these kids - they don't deserve this.

[ritabelle]

I know what you mean about wanting to say something, but the only one that can change his actions is your BIL. But you can control your own household situation -- If you don't want the child coming over because no one controls him, tell your BIL that he (and his mother) are not invited and why. Definitely plan parties for the nephews and don't invite wife3! BIL will soon figure out for himself which portion of the family he wants to stand with and you'll all have to live with that.

Hope it all works out ... let us know how things go

[Dutchie]

Personally, I don't think there is much you can do about THEIR situation. All you can do is deal with YOUR situation. So here is my two cents... Don't discuss it with your BIL...TELL HIM that you are going to have a good relationship with ALL of your nephews and treat all 3 of them the same. Invite the older ones over for celebratory b-day dinners, etc...whatever you want. Don't give him or his wife the option to tell you know. They are your nephews and you can see them as much as you like.

As for telling him how or when to see his kids, you just can't do it. More than likely, you will cause a rift with (at the very least) the new wife, and then you won't see your BIL or the youngest child.

It's a delicate situation, I hope you find a solution that works for yo!

The rift with the new wife is already there.

For my birthday celebration last week I had sent the older 2 boys a separate invitation and they came. I know that their mother (wife 1) really appreciates these gestures - but don't get me wrong - I do this for the boys.

My BIL already knows that I go my own way regarding invites for his boys. I don't care what he thinks about it either - as you say - they are my nephews and I see them when I can/want.

[perSue]

talk to BIL w/out his wife around. that'll be easiest to start with.
talk about HIS kids... the first two are HIS kids too!
Talk about how they miss seeing their dad... talk about wanting to see him more often... talk about HIS KIDS.

don't point fingers, don't blame.
just state that "it seems since "wife #3" works a LOT (good for her, at least she works!), that she seems exhausted and doesnt want a lot of racket on the weekends... that can easily be appreciated.

What about "seeing YOUR kids" during the week??
pick 'em up for a quick dinner, or go out shopping together... LITTLE things mean the most!

Just know that NO ONE will change him. If he's happy w/his wife... that's him.
If he doesnt see anything wrong.... that's him.
If he doesnt want to talk to his father... that's him.
If he doesnt want to see his other kids.... that's him.

TELL HIM, if he chooses to do this, that the rest of the family will "adopt" his other 2 kids... and make their lives wonderful... to make up for what he isn't willing/capable of doing.

Don't call names... just point out the obvious (w/out negativity) and state that you support his decisions - which you'll have to do anyway.

I kinda got the feeling that if you were to talk to him with his new wife present... NOTHING would happen. She'd yell and throw a tantrum... so it's best to talk to him - alone - and ask that he discuss it over with his wife... and heck, give him an ultimatum if you want!

But talk to him about HIS kids... keep saying that.... keep pointing out how they love him and want to see him. Don't talk about them being hurt or knowing what's going on or they dont like "step mom #3" or whatever. No negativity.
Keep it on a positive note... "the kids really miss you and would love to see you more. is there anything you can think of to give them what they deserve?"

It's a difficult situation... but what ultimately may happen is nothing.
Everything stays the same.
BUT, you can always remember YOU TRIED... for the kids sake.
AND then... when/if nothing changes... treat those older kids like the wonderful kids they are. Lavish attention on them, support them and attend their sports/plays/whatever...
Don't fully neglect his 3rd son tho. Just treat him like a special little child he is. All kids are special. Just show the older ones a little more attention... they need it.

And don't blame yourselves, or keep fretting about it after all is said & done.
If WW3 in the family breaks out... protect those kids!! at all costs... obviously.
But you have a choice here too... dont participate in the silly feuds.
Make a blanket statement if you must about wanting to help/protect his other kids and that was your ONLY concern. And let it die on it's own.
An unfueled flame has nothing to do but extinguish.

Good luck and we're here for you.

[cheapskate 49]

Well I agree with what everyone else has said....you cannot be responsible for anyone else's action,only your own,so I would give the attention to your 2 nephews and as for having the littlest one in your house,it depends on how much his behaviour bothers you......me, I'd not be willing to put up with it so he wouldn't be welcome until his parents started disciplining him

[perSue]

another option is for wife 1 to take legal action if he's not following the divorce agreement (ie, visitation)... she can always take him back to court - depending on state laws of course - and demand more money and force him to have visitation or give up his rights entirely to his kids... that's a last resort, in my mind... but if BIL is not doing what he SHOULD do and by law is supposed to do... wife 1 has the right to do this.

[Dutchie]

I think that at some point next week, the fat will hit the fire.

As I mentioned in one of my posts yesterday about our nephews, the oldest one has a lot of contact with my kids via the computer.
Wife 1 has decided that enough is enough so she has invited the family (via the computer) to HER house on Sun. to celebrate her son's birthday.
BIL and his wife have not been invited.

This just maybe give us a chance to talk to the boys and their mother about the situation but even if there is no chance to talk I am SO VERY pleased that his birthday is being celebrated even though his father is doing nothing.
I'l keep you all updated if you like.

[perSue]

Good luck Dutchie, we're pulling for this to go smoothly!
Let us know