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Bank of America This is an attempt to collect a debt

6K views 34 replies 11 participants last post by  ravenmaniac 
#1 ·
As alot of you know in April and May we couldn't make the house payment. In June we got caught up. In July we got caught up with credit card payments and started making payments on the car that got repo-ed. In August our health insurance went from $690 to $815 AFTER I had raised the deductible from $2500 to $5000. Electric went up in July by 10%. Many other things came to be and still happening. Every month it's something new.

In July we started making payments to a lawyer to the tune of $150 a month to hold a foreclosure on his mothers house that we had to quit making payments on last January to give it a chance to sell. She died, he bought the house out of the estate so he could buy the two sisters out of the business him and his parents shared equally. He already owned half, then a third, and each of them one third each. One lives in Ohio and didn't want to work it, just the money. Other couldn't contribute just collect. This is/was unacceptable. Long story short, bought mothers house, was going to live in it and sell ours. Next, housing crash. Business crash. Our business just about didn't exist anymore.

Made payments on both houses for 3 months to the tune of $4300. Come January couldn't do it anymore and this one was $300 less so we paid the payment on this one. March started foreclosure on his mothers.

Now we come to now. Nov 1st payment due. Mailed payment the 2nd. Late is not due until 16th. On the 6th BoA collections calls ( can't speak English, not even sure it was in this country ) and says " This call is being recorded and an attempt to collect a debt". Finally figured this out after asking about 4 times. I'm thinking I don't have a credit card with them. Then it hits me. The house. I proceeded to let her have it. The payment isn't even late you stupid....so on and so on. When I got off with her I got the number to BoA's housing collection number. First thing off the bat I asked him if this was being recorded and he said yes. I told him to make sure it was. I asked him when the payment was late says 16th. I asked him why she was calling then. He said it was probably her "verbage". I told him she couldn't speak English which is why I'm calling him. I kept telling him to make sure the recording was still going. He made the mistake of saying I didn't make the payment. I asked are you accusing me of NOT making the payment, are you sure this is still recording....he hesitated and said I meant it hasn't been received. Told him it was sitting on someones desk not posted. I told him to inform whoever that the next time someone calls I WILL have a recorder on also and they had better have the Fair Debt and Collection script in front of them Should they make one mistake I will get an attorney and I will sue and I will win. Why will I win? Because I don't care if I get one damn dime, the lawyer can have it all and he will WANT to win. Now record this. Did you catch all that or will you have to play it back. Thank you and have a wonderful day.

Went to local Bank of He## next day. Girl checked the account. Guess when it was credited. You got it. On the 6th. Same day as the phone call only not until after I called him. Isn't that amazing.

So for the next 28 years ( I'm 56 he's 62 ) the payment has to be POSTED on the 1st or they are going to call and attempt to collect a debt? So at any given time the mail dosen't deliver in a timely manner or the person posting dosen't feel like doing his/her job we will pay the price. Since it has been late twice they can start foreclosure the day it's late ( I was assuming the 16th but now know not true ) from here on out. Woman told me this back in June when we caught up. Can never be late again in 28 years. Her words. Should they want the house back all they have to do is not post it on time one time. After that they don't have to accept a payment.

Why do I hate Bank Of He##....gee, let me count the ways.
 
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#4 ·
Can you pay them electronically? Or can you send every blessed one for the next 28 years return receipt so that someone has to sign for when they receive it and you have proof of when it was in their hands?
Oh this is a good one. Explain in a moment.
Yes, I can pay in person at the local bank. I mentioned talking to the girl at the bank...she is also a good friend...I told her I forgive her for working for them...she isn't a happy camper either. She said I could pay there and it would be credited that same day. Electronically dosen't always get credited same day.

On your next thought of sign for. This dosen't always work. We are in collections with American Express and been making regular payments on time. They are always sent delivery confirmation, have to be signed for etc. Mailed Octobers in, ( just found this out 2 days ago ) and the collections person signed for it but it never got posted. American Express gave the account to another collections agency. I called the old collections agency and talked to the guy I had been dealing with. He was mad. He said it wasn't our fault. It was plainly made on time. It was signed for on time, but whoever was supposed to post it on time didn't do it. So American Express thinks we defaulted. We were on a 0 % interest for 6 months to give us a break and get some paid down but the collection agency screwed up. He said he was going to find out who and someone was going to be in deep crap. Was he serious? Think so, afterall they lost an account that was going well for them. One thing he did say tho was if we didn't want to deal with the new person just make the payment on line. I said they said they wouldn't accept it. He laughed and said they'll accept it. I said they said they wouldn't . He just laughed loud again and said Oh yeah, they'll accept it. Which means even if they took us to court if the payment were being made regardless of how they were being made the judge would be on our side, not American Express.

So what it all boils down to, it dosen't matter if you make the payment the day you get the bill, two weeks early, if it dosen't get posted it dosen't count. It's late. you are at someone's mercy and it can cost you.
 
#6 ·
As the girl at the bank explained it as she took a deep breath and looked to see if anyone was listening ( she's under the manager )
yes it is a grace period, but only if they want it to be.

Example, a credit card is due on the 15th. That means it is due ON the 15th.
The House is due on the 1st. That means it is DUE on the 1st. Technically on the 2nd if they want to be nasty it is late. I asked if since it had went unpaid for 2 months and then caught up could they start foreclosure on the 3rd late month if they wanted to even if it was BEFORE the 16th. She said yes, technically they could, but didn't know if they would. Give me a break, this is Bank of Hell, God of Banks.

Grace and gracious are NOT words I would use to describe Bank Of Hell.
 
#8 ·
Good post. I opened an account at a small bank today and will be in the process of closing out my BOA accounts over the next month.

I also just completed a short sale with BOA for a good friend. After dealing with them for 5 months on the short sale and seeing what a cruddy job their management is doing, I decided to not do business with them ever again.
 
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#11 ·
It sure wouldn't hurt.
 
#10 ·
I like the way you operate, Nikko! Good for you for giving them a piece of your mind and standing your ground :fence: They sure had it comin'.

Proud of you!

Theresa :)

PS-- I'm gonna remember what you mentioned about the Fair Debt and Collection script, and the recorder being on. Thanks for that because I'm dealing with collections for med bills :(
 
#12 ·
For mortgages a grace period generally means they won't hit you with a late fee so long as the payment is received before the grace period ends. If your house payment is due the 1st and the grace period ends on the 16th, the due date is still the 1st. If it's received after the 1st it is counted as a late payment, but without a late payment penalty so long as it's received before the 16th.

I don't understand the bank rep's statement that they can choose to not honor the grace period...our grace period was written into our contract for our mortgage...so she is full of crap.

I can understand you being upset that they called you on the 6th demanding payment, I would have been upset too.
 
#13 ·
For mortgages a grace period generally means they won't hit you with a late fee so long as the payment is received before the grace period ends. If your house payment is due the 1st and the grace period ends on the 16th, the due date is still the 1st. If it's received after the 1st it is counted as a late payment, but without a late payment penalty so long as it's received before the 16th.

I don't understand the bank rep's statement that they can choose to not honor the grace period...our grace period was written into our contract for our mortgage...so she is full of crap.

I can understand you being upset that they called you on the 6th demanding payment, I would have been upset too.
Because it is late after the first, just as you said. If you have read my threads/posts from the beginning it was not paid in April and May. It was already 2 months late. When Bank of He##'s collections called she plainly stated if late one more time foreclosure would/could start immediately with the 3rd LATE payment. This is straight from their mortgage company's collection dept. As you said the due date is STILL the 1st.

And they can do whatever they want to
.
 
#16 ·
Not honoring the grace period may only refer to calling - not to charging you late fees. Not sure w/o seeing the note.
 
#18 · (Edited)
Not honoring the grace period may only refer to calling - not to charging you late fees. Not sure w/o seeing the note.
Not sure what you mean. Also, what do you mean note? Mortgage papers?

I poured thru them after we were served with papers on the other house. I went thru both sets of mortgage papers. Foreclosure on the other house started in March after missing January and February. Actually they went out to see if the house was lived in and secure on the last day of February, BEFORE the March 1st payment was even due, which would have been the 3rd late payment. So they REALLY don't wait until the 3rd. IT wasn't even technically late for the 3rd much less the so called grace period.

Buried in the middle of the papers, ( both were in the middle, after they had you so confused and talked so much and shoved so much crap with sign here crap ) both sets of mortgage papers on both houses plainly state that foreclosure can start on 3rd late payment. I do believe I recall the words due date instead of late date. This fits with what the teller/friend said ( yes, I have a friend at Bank of Hell...I told her I forgave her...she said they were screwing her too). She's under the Branch Manager so she's not totally ignorant.

I bet if everyone got out their reading glasses and sat and actually read their mortgage papers line by line, which is what I did, you will find this goody in all of them.
 
#19 ·
Nikosan999 said:
I bet if everyone got out their reading glasses and sat and actually read their mortgage papers line by line, which is what I did, you will find this goody in all of them.
The problem is that Countrywide owned our mortgage before. I don't have detail papers when Bank of Hell bought them out. :)
 
#21 ·
Mortgage papers would still be the same. You didn't refinance, Countrywide was just bought out. Whatever Countrywide gave you ARE your mortgage papers. Ours was with Countrywide also. Man, was that a rip. Or a screw job.
 
#20 ·
Yes - Note = Mortgage.

A "Note" is a debt. When you sign the mortgage, you sign a "note" for the money. The lender owns the note.
 
#22 ·
Yes - Note = Mortgage.

A "Note" is a debt. When you sign the mortgage, you sign a "note" for the money. The lender owns the note.
K, this is what I thought you meant. They were " attempting to collect a debt" 10 days before the debt was late. AND it came from the collections dept, NOT customer service. Anyway you cut it it wasn't kosher. Or right. But it was the American way. Unfortunate but true. Greedy bastards.
 
#27 ·
I am so sorry you are going through this. Our mortgage company is great. We have paid at the 15th of the month electronically a few times, they were very nice to us. We always kept contact with them. When my husband told them he took a pay cut and is about to take another they said to let them know and they will look into lowering our interest rate for us so our payment doesn't exceed 31% of our income. But I think we will be okay.

I guess it is up to the mortgage company as to what "rules" they want to set.
 
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#28 ·
I guess it is up to the mortgage company as to what "rules" they want to set.
Yes, and no. The owners of your mortgage (not usually the servicer you talk to) have servicing guides that the mortgage company must follow.

For early collections calls, that may still be at the option of the servicer. What most people don't know is that the servicing company usually must send your payment to the investor/owner even if you do not make the payment (scheduled/scheduled servicing). This is one of the main reasons behind early collections calls if they work. It will help the servicer not to have to front the money to the investor, and wait to get it back either from the borrower, or closer to the end of the default process.
 
#29 ·
Nikosan999,

The other option I did not mention is Deed in Lieu of Foreclosure. From what I have seen, at this time, the big investors and mortgage insurance companies have a requirement that you have to at least have tried to sell the property (do ashort sale if needed), by demonstrating the property has been on the market for at least 90 days, to even qualify to have them consider DIL.
 
#30 ·
Nikosan999,

The other option I did not mention is Deed in Lieu of Foreclosure. From what I have seen, at this time, the big investors and mortgage insurance companies have a requirement that you have to at least have tried to sell the property (do ashort sale if needed), by demonstrating the property has been on the market for at least 90 days, to even qualify to have them consider DIL.
We have a foreclosure lawyer working on the house that's already in foreclosure. She said absolutely NOT a Deed in Lieu. Can't remember why now. Made good sense at the time. It's been listed since May or June anyway. Getting relisted again first part of the week.
 
#31 ·
I'm curious why she'd recommend not doing a deed in lieu. If the bank will do a deed in lieu, you walk away with no responsibility for the difference. If they foreclose and you're in a recourse state, they can come after you or the difference later.

I'd go back and re-question that advice.
 
#32 ·
Greebo, I specifically went in to ask that question a second time. First being on the consult. This was back in June or July. I swear I can't remember now why she said "not a good thing to do." It made perfect sense at the time but now...just can't remember. We have an appointment with another lawyer Wednesday. We're going to find out then whether both houses can go down cause in the Wells Fargo thread a Scott said a house can't be wiped out. This is the first I've heard or read of this. And we are in a recourse state. We need to wipe out both houses. We will find out more Wednesday.

Wish I could remember why not.....
 
#33 ·
Deed in Lieu's are tricky.

Depends on if your property has mortgage insurance or not. Sometimes even if mortgage insurance was not on at the time of closing (no mention on the HUD1, settlement statement) the lender would purchase MI after closing as a condition of being able to sell the loan to fannie or freddie.

Speaking in general terms, if you have mortgage insurance, they can decide the rules and terms of the DIL acceptance because they are the ones that end up holding the bag and making payment for part or all of the loss to Fannie or Freddie. Through subrogation they end up with standing to sue and recover losses.

Radian is one of the larger MI companies. They require it is an owner occupied property, on the market for fair value at least 90 days, and must be discharged from a chapter 7 bankruptcy. In addition, the real kicker is that they may require a cash contribution or promissory note from the buyer to approve the DIL. If they see $150 a month wiggle room in your cash flow after the mortgage is gone they will likely demand you sign a promissory note at 0% interest for 30 years at that amount.

Radian's servicing guide is available online in pdf.


Freddie Mac has an online servicing guide, but again if you have mortgage insurance they would override freddie's rules, if freddie is looking to recover losses from the insurance.

Freddie's rules for considering a DIL and Eligibility Requirements are in Volume 2 of their servicing guide, Chapter B65, Sections 43 and 44. Their definition (section 42) of a DIL says it results in a discharge of debt:

B65.42: What is a deed-in-lieu of foreclosure? (09/30/98)

A deed-in-lieu of foreclosure is a Borrower's voluntary conveyance of clear title to the property to us in exchange for a discharge of debt.

B65.43: When to consider a deed-in-lieu of foreclosure (01/02/04)

If the Borrower's involuntary inability to pay is permanent or long term and he or she cannot retain ownership of the property, and has been unsuccessful in attempts to sell the property, then you should explore the possibility of a deed-in-lieu of foreclosure as a solution to the Delinquency.

All other relief and workout options should be considered before recommending a deed-in-lieu of foreclosure. If the property is located in a State requiring a judicial foreclosure, and the foreclosure process takes longer than six months, then a deed-in-lieu of foreclosure may be appropriate to avoid a lengthy and costly foreclosure.

We will not accept a deed-in-lieu of foreclosure on a Mortgage secured by a Manufactured Home, unless the BPO indicates that the property is in very good condition, there are no other liens on the property and the Borrower has been unable to sell the property.

If a Borrower has been discharged from a Chapter 7 bankruptcy and the Mortgage payments are not current, then you should consider recommending a deed-in-lieu of foreclosure.

B65.44: Eligibility requirements (09/30/98)

To recommend a Borrower for a deed-in-lieu of foreclosure you must ensure that all of the following eligibility requirements are met:

(a) Borrower Requirements

The Borrower must:

1. Be experiencing or have experienced an involuntary inability to pay

2. Be delinquent in his or her payments, or in imminent danger of default

3. Complete Form 1126

4. Be cooperative and allow access to the interior of the property for a BPO

5. Have had the property listed for sale in the Multiple Listing Service (MLS) (unless there is no MLS in the area where the property is located) with a licensed real estate broker for at least 90 days, at no more than 110 percent of market value, and all attempts to sell the property have been unsuccessful


(b) Requirements when the Borrower does not have an involuntary inability to pay

If the Borrower does not meet the involuntary inability to pay requirement, but all of the following conditions exist, you may consider recommending the Borrower for a deed-in-lieu of foreclosure:

1. The property is located in a state where pursuit of a deficiency judgment is not practical, and

2. The total indebtedness is equal to or greater than 115 percent of the probable sale price of the property based on an as-is value with a 90-day marketing timeframe

3. The Mortgage is 90 days or more delinquent


(c) Property requirements

The property must not:

1. Have any type of structural damage, environmental hazard, or condition that poses a health or safety risk

2. Pose a Risk of Property Ownership to us

3. Have any other liens or encumbrances filed against it, or if so, the lien holder must agree to release its lien


Servicing Note:

You must order a BPO to determine the value and condition of the property.

They can change requirements any time. The latest FHLMC guide is located on the AllRegs link on the upper-right of this page:

http://www.freddiemac.com/sell/guide/bulletins/
 
#34 ·
In addition, looking at the 2009 Fannie Mae Selling Guide, B3-5.3-08, Derogatory Credit Information (04/01/2009) .

A DIL requires waiting a minimum of 4 years to qualify for a new loan. In comparison it is 2 for Short Sale (pre-foreclosure sale) and 5 for a foreclosure.
 
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#35 ·
I realize mortgage companies can not really set their own rules. I will admit I am not financially savvy when it comes to mortgages.

When we had issues my husband and I asked tons of questions and wrote everything down. Our mortgage company was very helpful and willing to work with us.

Nikko - I hope you can find a solution and peace of mind for your situation. You have been given some excellent advice to follow.
 
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