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The Clincher...Wells Fargo

5K views 33 replies 21 participants last post by  Sassyclass 
#1 · (Edited)
Well if you've made it thru the last 3(?) posts you've made it to the last one. I've only got one more rant to go...least until something else hits.

On the same day that Bank of He## called about collecting a debt, meaning house payment...Wachovia called ( still going under Wachovia for time being...working toward Wells Fargo ).

Purpose of this phone call was to tell us that the commercial loan of $124,000 that we have for the business is going from an interest only at 4.25% and interest payment of $448 to a conventional loan in 6 months. They are going to be so gracious to give us this 6 months to "pay it down". This will happen about April.
We pay $500 a month on it and while that is not much it is all we can do. We might be able to stretch it to $600 but absolutely no more.

Their excuse...this is a quote " we're not making enough money off the loan"....WHAT!!!!!!!!! We're making the interest plus a little extra, not defaulting like alot of people and this is what we get for the effort.

I pulled the contract and read thru it. AHHH....there it is..#41 which basically say, we can do what we want, when we want and however we want and there's nothing you can do about it. Did we read thru it first? Tried to. Just like signing for the houses. But they keep their mouths running like a river and flipping pages and they say sign here and here and how are the kids, sign here, and I'm so glad that yada yada. They must all go to school to learn to keep a conversation going so you don't get a chance to read. I'm serious. A ploy. Never again. If I can't take it home to read it in full, line by line then it's not getting signed unless it's life or death.

So bottom line to this one is they are going to take a bill, a payment that we can make at $500-$600 a month until possibly things got better and turn it into something totally undoable and this will be our end. The loan will be for 5 to 6 years and the payment will be about give or take $3000. Far cry from $600. THAT'S IF they don't do a credit report and make the new interest rate at something like 29.99%.

Last October is when this hit us and we have held on over a year now. We saw a bankruptcy lawyer in January and talked to him. We have tried and tried to keep from doing that but they won't let us. We've discussed it and always said we'll wait, we'll wait. I think waiting is about done. I've so had it. This crap I've posted on all night here is the last straw. Opening the cancellation of the house insurance was the last straw. I'm tired of fighting, of being depressed, of watching my daughter be sick with migraines and throwing up that the doctor said was stress, of hubby killing himself physically, of his diabetis level shooting to 500 from stress. No, I'm done. If something dosen't change here in the next couple months we're going back to see the lawyer. If anyone thinks less of me for doing so then so be it. My families health and survival takes priority. I'm sorry for being so long winded tonight but I have to unload somewhere or I'm going to scream. I just can't take much more...as I told someone today, depression is a horrible thing...I don't need sympathy, I need understanding.
 
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#3 ·
Nikosan999, I don't think anyone would think less of you for declaring bankruptcy at this point. I think many of us would have done it long ago. It sounds like you are trying to do everything right and to be responsible, but the money-grubbers are just going to greed themselves right out of luck.

I have had some run-in's with Allstate and Wells Fargo as well, in the past, and I agree with your opinion of insurance companies and banks. Right now, I am happily keeping an account at a small credit union, and I also have an on-line account with ING. I may not get all the perks of having my account with a huge megalo-corporation, but I deal with humans and I am not getting hit with fees left and right.

The first and foremost concern you should have is to reduce the amount of stress on you and your family. The next is to ensure that you have a roof over your head. Then food. And water. And utilities. And a reliable vehicle. And then about sixty other things before "making sure the greedy credit card and insurance companies get their pound of flesh."
 
#4 ·
You have tried for more than a year niko.......and at what price? Time to do what you gotta do......and I probably would have done it months ago.

Health and sanity is one hell of a lot more important than what people THINK of you. YOU have to live with you - and the key word here is LIVE - you have tried.

My question - if you know all of this is 'coming down the pike'...and when the loan goes into effect you are done......why wait?
 
#24 ·
You have tried for more than a year niko.......and at what price? Time to do what you gotta do......and I probably would have done it months ago.

Health and sanity is one hell of a lot more important than what people THINK of you. YOU have to live with you - and the key word here is LIVE - you have tried.

My question - if you know all of this is 'coming down the pike'...and when the loan goes into effect you are done......why wait?
The loan thing just hit a couple weeks ago. We were trying to keep from filing. If everyone would have left us alone we might have been able to pull thru this. Even if this one payment had not changed but it did.

Why wait? I guess because it's not something we want to do. It's something we NEED to do. And I guess, again, we're putting wants before needs. I'm calling week after Thanksgiving to set up an appointment for discussion. Taking the figures, amounts owed and other info and see if we can file a 13 instead of 7. -With this one we will have to pay back part of the money BUT the business has to be making enough money to keep us AND the business AND the repayment to the court. He will determine from what we take if we would be allowed to keep business and do a 13.

We will also have to do a debt class and that in itself I understand is intensive. If it was just personal it would be 20 times easier but since it includes the business it will be intensive. Also done on the computer and the secretary said back months ago once you start you can't hit back, so there can be no mistakes. That in itself is daunting.

All our ducks have to be in a row. We have taxes done up thru Sept and it's a very close thing.

Have the courage to change what you can change, the serenity to accept what you cannot, and the wisdom to know the difference.
 
#5 ·
Don't beat yourself up about it even if you read it they would have sent a little leaflet changing conditions. My friend has bought 2 houses after declaring BK. If it bothers you declare BK and pay the debt when you have it at least they wouldn't be tag teaming you and adding on all that interest.
 
#8 ·
Niko as my son often says the s**t aint worth dying for.We are around the same age and I assume so is your dh you need to worry about your health to hell with this crap You fought the good fight but couldnt quite win Save yourselves > If I were you I wouldnt waste one more precious minute of my life on these aholes. Move forward and be happy you certainly have earned the right to be
 
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#9 ·
This sucks! It totally and completely sucks!

I would not have held off as long as you did. I went bankrupt with my divorce (nearly 7 years ago). I did not choose to fight the good fight like you have done. It wasn't fun, it was mildly humiliating but you know what, it was a huge relief to no longer be hounded. MAKE SURE if you do go bankrupt you list every single little thing. I missed one item and it came back to haunt me with relentless phone calls from bill collectors, a ltter to my employer from said scum bill collectors, and many trees killed in their threatening letters to me.

If you are truly planning to go bankrupt, you may be able to keep your house if that is something you want to do. In Canada you can sometimes hold something back from the bankruptcy (I kept my car). BUt maybe the time has come that you don't even want the house - I know you are fed up. If you are going to do it, make the decision and stop paying now - this may be unpopular advice but really, what is the point?

Good luck, and I hope you can find some peace today.
 
#25 ·
This sucks! It totally and completely sucks!

I would not have held off as long as you did. I went bankrupt with my divorce (nearly 7 years ago). I did not choose to fight the good fight like you have done. It wasn't fun, it was mildly humiliating but you know what, it was a huge relief to no longer be hounded. MAKE SURE if you do go bankrupt you list every single little thing. I missed one item and it came back to haunt me with relentless phone calls from bill collectors, a ltter to my employer from said scum bill collectors, and many trees killed in their threatening letters to me.

If you are truly planning to go bankrupt, you may be able to keep your house if that is something you want to do. In Canada you can sometimes hold something back from the bankruptcy (I kept my car). BUt maybe the time has come that you don't even want the house - I know you are fed up. If you are going to do it, make the decision and stop paying now - this may be unpopular advice but really, what is the point?

Good luck, and I hope you can find some peace today.
I would not keep the house. Once filed as you know you can't go back for many years. If the economy tanked again further we would end up losing it because of the high payment. Then not only would we be bankrupt but have a foreclosure to deal with with no way out of it. And I'm sure you have probably already read my Bank of Hell thread calling me on the 6th from collections when it wasn't even late. No, I'm 56 and he's 62. Not spending the rest of our lives bending over for Bank of Hell. If they were kosher we'd definitely think about it, but they're not and we aren't bringing vaseline to the party.

We have very good friends who just bought a house from a bankruptcy. Man did not include the house, trying to save it. Filed, it went thru. Then lost his job, put house up for short sale. Friends bought it and owner has to pay $70,000 difference AFTER filing bankruptcy. Nope, sucks to be him and I won't be him. IT GOES DOWN WITH THE REST.
 
#10 ·
Niko, I'm sorry to hear about your hardship. You've been fighting valiantly, so you have no reason to take any flak from anyone on not trying.

Having said that, take a few steps back, and let the things sink in. You may feel a bit different (or indifferent) after the initial shock has ebbed off.

Do what you can do, and no more. No more "we could up this to $x", you're already at the absolute limit as far as I can tell from your posts. At some point, you have to stop short-changing your family and yourself in order to please third parties.

All the best of luck - I'm rooting for you!
 
#11 ·
Niko I'm so sorry! Reading your story over the last few months I am amazed by your strength! No one can give you any flak. You have fought valiantly. Just do what you need to for you and your family. Honestly no one's opinion matters outside of yours and the familys!

Hugs and sending you really positive wishes.
 
#13 ·
Niko,

I am so sorry you are going through this! You fought a tough fight. It is not worth you and your family's health. Do what you have to do and move on.

This economy sucks and the banks and credit card companies suck even more. In the long run, they are shooting themselves in the foot and won't understand why they are losing customers.
 
#14 ·
First of all, big hugs to you. I have also been reading about what you have gone through the last few months and I agree, you have fought and fought hard. It is not worth your health, you need to do what is right for you. We are all here to support you in what ever you decide to do.
 
#15 ·
First of all, big hugs to you. I have also been reading about what you have gone through the last few months and I agree, you have fought and fought hard. It is not worth your health, you need to do what is right for you. We are all here to support you in what ever you decide to do.
Hubby was diagnosed with diabetes about 4 years ago. He was on pill meds until last couple months. His stress level was so high the pills weren't doing it. His sugar level would test between 380 and 480 on a consistent basis. They ended up putting him on insulin as a result. It's pretty much regulated now but like last night when we opened the canceled house insurance letter and he first got upset then got mad it shot up regardless.

I've had to take our daughter to the doctor for migraines and after an MRI showing other than the migraines wrong and our story the family doc and a neurologist both said it's stress related. Problem is it's an everyday thing. She's been on 2 different kinds of pain pills which she won't take as she should because she dosen't believe in medicine being used excessively.
She's having to come home from school more and more and more. She is depressed and her whole demeanor has changed drastically. She's gained about 30 pounds and that makes it worse.

I've had to cancel one blood test and cardiologist appointment because I won't have the money to pay for a month or maybe two. I have rescheduled and will go then. I, as another poster on another thread said, have been taking my meds every other day pretty much for a long time. I know she is going to want me to take a stress test which I will not do as our deductible is $5000. Don't think I really need it anyway.

So, yes, health is being affected.
 
#16 ·
I am so sorry you are going through all of this, you need to take care of you and your family first. If you need to file bankruptcy, then do it, its not like you havent tried everything else!
Good luck, and I hope everything settles down for you soon.
 
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#18 ·
Nishu: Is that $5k your family max? Or your individual?

Either way I get what you're saying - you'll have to pay for the test out of pocket.
 
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#20 ·
Nishu: Is that $5k your family max? Or your individual?

Either way I get what you're saying - you'll have to pay for the test out of pocket.
That is $5000 per person OR once 2 people have met the max ( $10,000) the 3rd is "free". After the individual has met the $5000 that individual is 100% the rest of the year, however the insurance does not include prescriptions, eyes, dentist. The prescriptions are "reduced". As in say it is $100 per script, I would pay like $75 or $80.

Right before last Oct I had a stress test and then the bomb happened. I made payments on it then after so long they were getting antsy so I put it on a CC. I can't afford to lose the cardiologist. I did get alot of my meds by samples. Sometimes months worth. I made her change it last time I was there to WalMarts $4 per.

But having the test I can't pay for and will not put it on a card...
 
#19 ·
A few years back hubby's doctor referred him to a cardiologist because she THOUGHT she saw something in one of his tests (I don't remember which one). So we had to pay the copay for the specialist and a big copay for stress test and other tests to be told that the the cardiologist didn't find anything and didn't know why the GP had referred him - GGRRR! That was with insurance.

Don't let the basTURDs get you down! I say go to the lawyer and get started filing bankruptcy. I have NEVER told anyone that before! You and your family's health is MORE important.

You are in my thoughts and prayers!
 
#21 ·
A few years back hubby's doctor referred him to a cardiologist because she THOUGHT she saw something in one of his tests (I don't remember which one). So we had to pay the copay for the specialist and a big copay for stress test and other tests to be told that the the cardiologist didn't find anything and didn't know why the GP had referred him - GGRRR! That was with insurance.

Don't let the basTURDs get you down! I say go to the lawyer and get started filing bankruptcy. I have NEVER told anyone that before! You and your family's health is MORE important.

You are in my thoughts and prayers!
We don't even have a co-pay.

Thank you, I know that was hard. We are going to make an appointment next month. We need time to get figures together and that alone is going to be a mess since the personal and business are all together. A LLC was never done. It is ALL considered personal. Cannot be separated.

We already know from January most of what would be required. It will take awhile to gather all this stuff up. They even want copies of your health and life insurance papers. I have no clue where they are. Will probably have to call companies and get new ones. Getting all this together will take time. Then there is the debt counceling thing. I dread all this so much...

We want to keep the business. There are no jobs here otherwise. We NEED to be able to keep it and the property. Otherwise no income. We will 95% sure we will be letting the house go. The property keeping's first priority is the business.
If the economy tanks again next year I don't want a huge house payment. If we file we won't be able to do it again if the economy does fail and we're stuck at that point with a foreclosure. Double whammy. No, If it goes down the house goes also.

Mary you're right. I can deal with MY health but I can't deal any longer with my childs or my husbands. Life is to precious. They have screwed us, so basically in a nutshell, screw them.
 
#22 ·
If.. and only if.. bankruptcy is inevitable..

Start saving CASH in an envelope.. if you know a payment is a lost cause.. take the money and put it in an envelope.. (anything in a bank acct is an asset..) then when you finally have to file bankruptcy. You'll at least be able to start over with enough for first, last, deposit, and a baby EF.

2 x $500 loan payment = $1000
3 x housepayment = ???


I know the clouds look bad, but think of the silver lining..

Sure, it's starting all over again, and that's hard, but just think how fast you'll be able to progress now that you know what mistakes not to make in the first place.

Imagine renting a place with a stockpile in mind!

Or furnishing a place not giving a rats @ss about the Joneses or the kids, just what suits you!

Knowing that renting a place with energy efficient appliances will save you money, and putting those CFL bulbs in immediately.

Giggling when the sink backs up.. because it's NOT YOUR PROBLEM!
 
#27 ·
If.. and only if.. bankruptcy is inevitable..

Start saving CASH in an envelope.. if you know a payment is a lost cause.. take the money and put it in an envelope.. (anything in a bank acct is an asset..) then when you finally have to file bankruptcy. You'll at least be able to start over with enough for first, last, deposit, and a baby EF.

2 x $500 loan payment = $1000
3 x housepayment = ???


I know the clouds look bad, but think of the silver lining..

Sure, it's starting all over again, and that's hard, but just think how fast you'll be able to progress now that you know what mistakes not to make in the first place.

Imagine renting a place with a stockpile in mind!

Or furnishing a place not giving a rats @ss about the Joneses or the kids, just what suits you!

Knowing that renting a place with energy efficient appliances will save you money, and putting those CFL bulbs in immediately.

Giggling when the sink backs up.. because it's NOT YOUR PROBLEM!
It's been a horrible day...it was ok when I was fired up and mad..it kept me fueled and focused and mouthy. Now, at midnight, I'm tired, I'm drained....and I'm scared...

Need to get mad again to hold it all together I guess...but right now, just scared

Have the courage to change what you can change, the serenity to accept what you cannot, and the wisdom to know the difference.

 
#28 ·
I'm sorry you're going through this, Niko. You will get through this. We're here for you and pulling for you.
 
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#29 ·
It's hard when you feel so tired, like being worn down from stone into sand..

I only put that in about the bankruptcy because sometimes you fight and fight and fight, and then you can be left with no Plan B, because the only plan you ever thought of was to keep fighting.

You may never need your Plan B, but if you don't it doesn't hurt anything to have thought about it.

But it's important to remember that life will go on, even after bankruptcy. (In point of fact bankruptcy.. the final part.. is so fast that honestly it'll weird you out.)

And then it's like.. someone told you you had cancer.. and then they tried this treatment and that treatment and finally told you there was no cure.. and then.. nothing happens..

you're just the same old you, with the same feelings, and likes and dislikes, the same unruly hair, the same smile in the mirror, and hopes and dreams and relatives and pet peeves.. only with a lot less bills.

Sure, your credit rating sux.. but if you've been making late payments etc.. it already sucked before they bothered to bang that gavel so you've essentially lost nothing credit wise.

But that's why you have to plan for AFTER.. because life will go on. Bankruptcy is a horrible thing, but.. if you have to do it.. it's meant to be a clean slate.. not a punishment.

So

A) Consider which bills you'll still have to deal with like electric, phone, the basics because if you can you want to keep those in good standing. You'll need to be able to transfer them to the new place with less hassle.

B) make a list of EVERY piddling little debt or over due bill etc.
I mean every single one, the book club from two years ago.. every single medical bill to the penny. You'll have to list it all, but you only get one chance to erase the blackboard so you need to write everything you want gone on that blackboard.

C) hoard cash.. I'm not kidding. I know it sounds nuts, but you'll need it to keep from going back into debt! That way you can establish an EF out the gate. If you have available balance on your CCs use them to pay anything you'll need off like a car repair.

D) Figure out what the average living costs are for your area apartment-wise, then you'll know a good deal when you see one.
 
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#30 ·
There is nothing wrong with bankruptcy, especially when you have tried to work with your creditors outside of bankruptcy and hit a brick wall. Do what you need to do to pay for your shelter, and nurishment and let the bankruptcy process work for you.

Maybe consult a few attorneys before settling for one.

Good luck!
 
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#32 ·
"Although a debtor is not personally liable for discharged debts, a valid lien (i.e., a charge upon specific property to secure payment of a debt) that has not been avoided (i.e., made unenforceable) in the bankruptcy case will remain after the bankruptcy case. Therefore, a secured creditor may enforce the lien to recover the property secured by the lien."

http://www.uscourts.gov/bankruptcycourts/bankruptcybasics/discharge.html

This is a great site: http://www.uscourts.gov/bankruptcycourts/bankruptcybasics.html
 
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#34 ·
Niko, you have every reason to hold your head up high and know you are doing what is best for you and your family. Sending prayers and hugs your way. Remember we are here to help and we understand completely how you feel.

Cat
 
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