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7K views 38 replies 28 participants last post by  Brandi63 
#1 ·
Hi,

I'm new here and was really glad to see a forum for people having financial hardship. My husband and I are really struggling and will be consulting a lawyer about filing for bankruptcy. Before anyone starts flaming/scolding/lecturing, please let me explain our circumstances.

We were doing fine this time last year. Both working, making a good living, keeping up with all the bills and had a decent savings in the bank. Then my husband got laid off in March from the company he'd been at for 12 years. He applied for unemployment ($1500 a month). I work from home as a freelance writer and editor and was doing well until the economy crashed. I'm still making an income but it's half what it was. (I can't work FT outside my home due to health issues but I am looking for something part time. People just aren't hiring.) We figured between our savings, my husband's unemployment and my freelance income we'd be okay. We never dreamed he'd still be looking for a job 10 months later, but he is. He spends all day everyday looking for work. We live in NYC, which is one of the hardest hit cities unemployment wise. It sucks.

Our savings has finally run out and we've had to stop paying on our credit cards. We have about $18,000 in C/C debt. Before my husband got laid off we had begun making serious headway in paying them off. We always paid more than the minimum and never missed a payment. We just don't have the money to even pay the minimums anymore. We're only 30 days late but we're being harassed by calls morning to night every day. We've also got about $4000 in medical bills. (We lost our insurance when my husband was laid off-the $1300 a month COBRA demanded was out of the question). So far this year my husband had a cancer scare, I had an emergency root canal, a kidney infection, and a miscarriage. (It's been a cruel, rotten year). I also need to put aside money each month to pay my quarterly taxes(the downside of being self employed).

This time last year we were making 70K a year. Now we're making about $25,000. We get food help from Angelfood Ministries and have cut out all non essential spending. Our rent is $800 a month. Heat is $150 (we live in a drafty, 60 year old brownstone) a month. Electricity is about $90. Phone/Internet is about $100. (Internet is a necessity for me to keep my freelancing business going). Renters insurance is $30 and I need to put aside $160 a month for taxes plus I pay $120 a month on my student loan. We pay $30 a month for a food box from Angelfood Ministries which helps a lot. The payments on our credit cards (7-4 in his name only, 2 in my name only and one joint) total about $650 a month. Without Angelfood we spent about $90 a week on groceries for us and our two cats. With Angelfood we've gotten it down to $45 a week) We haven't used them in quite awhile. Before the lay off our goal was to pay them off and our motto has been "if we can't pay cash we can't afford it." Our total monthly income right now is about $2000.

I am doing all I can to pick up more clients and find something part time. My husband is working hard to find a job. He spends 6-8hrs a day searching, sending resumes, making phone calls, etc.

We applied for state health insurance. Denied. Applied for food stamps. Denied. They say we make too much. There is a voucher program in our state that if you qualify will pay for you to go to school and be trained for a new career. My husband has 22 years experience in legal office support so he applied for the voucher for Paralegal training. Denied. He tried for the Office Administration one instead. Denied. Both times they said he didn't have enough experience. He's gone to resume and interview workshops, job fairs, etc. He is doing everything he can think of.

We called our C/C companies (Cap 1, Discover, Chase, and HSBC). They all refused to work with us. Cap One and Chase jacked up our interest rates in September. The letter said it was due to "current economic conditions.

We've gone to credit counseling and they said bankruptcy may be our best option. We have no home, land, car, property, nothing. No assets or anything of any real value, except maybe my husband's baseball cards, which he is going to try and sell. The only valuable jewelry we have is our wedding bands and my engagement ring. We just have nothing.

Finding some place cheaper to rent is not an option. This is NYC. Neither my parents or my husbands are wealthy so they can't help. I haven't even told my parents about how bad things are as they live 300 miles away and I don't want to worry them. My mom has multiple health issues and has enough to deal with. I'm their only child.

My husband's mom is supportive but can't help us either. My husband's brothers are both very well off but when we sent an email explaining we would not be able to afford gifts for anyone this year and why, we were completely ignored. We confided in some friends about our situation and they ignored us too. We are slowly accepting the fact that no one cares and we are pretty much alone.

Let me say we know the debt we have is our fault and our responsibility. We hate not being able to pay it but we never imagined my husband would get laid off. 3 weeks before they let him go they gave him a raise! We're not deadbeats, lazy or have entitlement issues.

We are just a married couple who ran into more bad luck then any two people deserve. Since January we've had the lay off, my husband had a cancer scare, my miscarriage, the news that one of my husband's uncles is dying of leukemia, another is in very poor health, my parents have had multiple health issues, my MIL has had two surgeries, I've lost clients and had hours cut, and more I won't bore you with.

I've had clinical depression and an anxiety disorder most of my life and I'm really struggling now. My husband is starting to get depressed as well. We have our faith in God, our love for each other, our health, and little else. We are doing everything we can with no real support system or shoulders to cry on. We just don't see any other options or anyplace else to turn. We would be fine with Chap. 13. In fact we'd feel better knowing we would be able to pay back at least some of our debt.

Sorry this was so long. I haven't had anyone to talk to. Thanks for listening.
 
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#2 ·
First of all BerryWriter, you're not alone. So many people that I know and love are going through the same thing. My husband and I are also looking at bankruptcy and it stinks. But if we don't file we will lose EVERYTHING. I feel your pain about reaching out to family and friends and getting no response at all. Same thing here. It's not like you're looking for a handout. I'm starting to think that people do care, but when they are confronted with the reality that someone close to them is struggling like you guys are, they just shut you out because it's hitting close to home. I don't know if that makes any sense, but that's how I have come to view it.

You will find lots of support and advice here. Some people may try to tell you that you should never file for bankruptcy, etc., etc., etc. But in these times we do what we need to do that's best for our families. Nobody walks in your shoes except you. Ya know?

Even if you don't want to worry your mom though, you should still talk to her. Maybe not tell her everything, but just talk. I feel the same as you, my mom has serious health problems, but sometimes I just need to talk to her and tell her stuff anyways and she does want to know. Even though she can't help me financially, she's still my mom and cares about my well-being.

Anyways, hope to hear from you more and will be praying that your situation improves. You're going to love this site.
 
#4 ·
I'm sorry you are going through this. Since you pay $120 a month on a student loan, could you get a deferment on it for awhile until things get better?
 
#5 ·
welcome to the village...we are not going to scold or be-little you here in any way shape or form...especially since we know your story...

now if you said "when we got home from Europe (our 3rd vacation just this year), and found out the mercedes needed some x-tra work..and then there was the new tires for the sportscar coz of all the miles we had been putting on it just trying to keep ourselves busy and occupied during these trying times and to make ourselves feel better."... then i think you better be ready to be in for a good lashing...coz the good people here would sure give it to you....

but you have done nothing wrong but try to stay 'alive' for the past 10 months...noone could have predicted all this (well i think the gov't probably knew more than what they were telling...but they were not going to share it with us..after all...when have they ever had OUR best interest anyway)....

i am going to be one of those that says try to hold off on the bankruptcy....i know..it's easy for me to just 'say'....but when all this blows over i still believe we are going to be a big 'credit-based' society and one day you may need to access that credit...(i am talking about for a home, or other 'essential loan'...not boats, cc's, etc).....

right now you see no light at the end of the tunnel...i know its dark & dreary and you are spending your entire days holding your breath and its getting quite painful.... but by being here your post will become 'flooded' with all kinds of advice that you will most likely be able to use... there are lots of people here that HAVE been in your shoes and they are more than willing to help you out...some of the advice might be new, some not so new but with a new twist... just listen to it all...take what you can use...DO NOT be afraid to ask questions or have it explained to you AGAIN.....and most important...KEEP YOUR HEAD UP....

in the end...money has no 'real' value...but your health, family, friends are what is most important and while it seems like the end of the world is here...your world... it's going to be ok..'you' are going to be ok.....and one day you will be able to look back on all this and see and understand what you have learned and it will all be in the past and another something that you had to live thru to grow into the great person that you will have become....

take care... (and hold on...coz here come the troops)......
 
#6 ·
I'm not sure that bk is the answer. Your bills are fairly reasonable for NYC.What you have reported here without the
CC cards is about 1540 which just means that your company has to bring in a little bit of something to make things work. Of course that is without the CC.
I would ask about the Student Loan deferment. Would you consider a roommate? I don't know how much room you have in the brownstone. An before anyone says anything, 800 a month in rent on ANYTHING in NYC is great. You must have a rent conttrolled apartment.
Then I would set up a plan to deal with the credit cards. They get a piece of what you have left and nothing more.
 
#7 ·
I will be praying for you and your dh situation. No condemdnation from me. I understand that you were living your life paying your bills and then hit with all these things in a short period of time. More than most people could handle.

It is good to hear that dh is looking so diligently for something, anything. So many just give up.

As far as credit cards go and student loans, you have to eat and have a place over your heads. Keep the household running and food to eat. Without those two you will be in much worse shape.

That just sounds so wrong that the credit card company would raise your rate now, but that is what they do and they are a buisness and are trying like everyone else to scrape together any money they can get out of people. Seems that if they lowered the rates more people would continue to pay or at least try and not just throw in the towel to a no win situation. If you don't have the money for the regular payment how are you ever going to afford to come up wtih more.

I am sure you will get lots of ideas here at the Village hope it will be helpful to you.
 
#8 ·
You say your monthly income is 2000 a month and your expenses are from what you said 1660 a month with gives you 340 extra a month. Could you ignore all the credit cards and just pay one with the extra 340? Then when one is paid off move on to another card. Then when winter is over you can put some of the money from your heating bill towards the credit card debt. You said your home is very drafty have you covered your windows we do that and it helps a whole lot. I know your situation seems dire but I don't think you need to declare bankruptcy. I think if you sit down and work the numbers a little and just concentrate on one bill at a time you and your husband can get out of this debt. I wish you the best!
 
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#9 ·
When you're in the midst of a financial crisis, the last priority is consumer debt. Yes, you owe it, but you can't pay it now - food, lights, shelter, transportation and clothing come first. So - the CC companies can wait. Do what must be done for your family first, and keep looking for new opportunities. They're out there - just keep digging!
 
#10 ·
You can defer the student loan, or just ignore it. Sallie May can't do anything to you that being behind on the CCs hasn't already done.

I know from experience that Chase and HSBC will screw you any way they can. Absolutely DO NOT believe anything they tell you about payment plans or getting the account "up to date" unless you get it in writing (which they will refuse to do).

You can write them and request that they only communicate with you by letter. That will stop the phone calls.

Can either of you pick up part time minimum wage work (would you like fries with that?) to help make ends meet?

I know it sounds hopeless, but you guys are due for a break, and it will come. I've been in exactly your position, DH was out of work a couple years ago, for 11 months. It was the toughest thing we ever faced together.
 
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#14 ·
About 4 yrs ago my dh lost his job and was unemployed for 18 months! It was indeed the most challenging time in our lives and our marriage. I was scared, and there were times I would close my bedroom door...and cry. We have 2 kids so I knew I had to keep it together for them.

The one thing I regret is not asking for help. We would have qualified for the free lunch program, food stamps etc...but I was too proud to take it. I work FT but it was not nearly enough to cover rent, utilities, food etc....so we went into debt BIG TIME...lived on credit cards for 18 months to pay for the very basics...but 18 months is a looong time.

He now has a job, but it's in an entirely different field. He was in the automotive business for 23 yrs and making a decent salary. He now is making 1/2 of what he used too.

Lean on your faith...HE will protect you and guide you. I now can look back and see how HE gave us what we needed exactly when when we needed it most.

Don't give up hope...keep looking and praying. You have gotten some excellent advise. You can trust the people on here.

Just want you to know you are not alone.
 
#17 ·
Thanks so much everyone!

I must have missed an expense because we don't have anywhere near 340 left at the end of the month. It's more like 100 or so. I forgot to mention a medical loan ($49 a month) and the fact I am still making payments on the credit card in my name ($20 a month). Since most of our debt is in my husband's name I am trying to keep up with the stuff in mine.

We don't eat out ever, don't go to the movies or sporting events or anything like that, and we don't spend on anything we don't have to. There's always something that comes up though it seems. Like a few weeks ago we got hit with a fraudulent charge on our checking account. It wiped us out and we ended up overdrawn. It was dicey for a few days but we talked to the bank and got our money back and the overdraft fee reversed. We don't buy anything but necessities. Okay that isn't 100% true-a few days ago I was miserable with period cramps and stress so my husband went out and brought me home a Hershey bar! :) But that is as far as any "splurging" goes.

Every 90 days I have to spend $30 on meds for my allergies and asthma, and yesterday we had to go buy cold medicine because we are both sick. It really wouldn't make sense for my husband to get a min. wage job because whatever he makes would be deducted from his unemployment check each week. I am looking for something PT to supplement my freelancing. I can't stand on my feet for extended periods as I have a bad knee that will need surgery once we get medical insurance again. I'm certainly able to do office work and am looking for something. Taking in a roommate is not an option. We have a small 1 bedroom apartment so there's no room, and even if there was it's prohibited in our lease. BTW our apartment isn't rent controlled, we just got lucky.

I know things will get better eventually. The economy is supposedly turning itself around and the job creation outlook seems to be slowly improving. We are blessed in many ways despite this. If we have to give up our apartment my husband's parents will take us in so we don't have to worry about being homeless. We don't have to worry about where our next meal will come from and we have warm clothes. I count our blessings everyday.

We're not 100% sure bankruptcy is our best option. We know our credit will be wrecked either way (which worries me because I know many employers do credit checks, which I think is discriminatory, since having bad credit doesn't mean someone is stupid, untrustworthy, irresponsible or would make a lousy employee.) We're carefully investigating all our options to be sure we make the right choice. We want to be fully educated in all the options and their consequences. We don't live in a community property state and that seems to be a positive thing.

My biggest worry is being sued/judgements made against us or having a bank account frozen/seized. We have two checking accounts, both jointly held. One is our main house account and the other is used only by me for my freelance business. Mine is the one that I'm worried about as my husband's is protected-per NY state law they can't touch the first $2500 because it is from protected deposits-in his case, unemployment benefits, and we haven't had more than that in the account in months.

Mine however seems to be fair game and they can take 50% of the balance I believe. What really worries me is that my bank account is with HSBC-and my husband has two credit cards with HSBC, which has me worried that they might just dip into my account. They refused to take my husband's name off, saying it's against the law and I have to close it and open a new one in just my name. I may end up doing that, although it's a hassle and they do a credit check which may prevent it from being approved.

They give you notice before freezing/garnishing a bank account, don't they? If so that makes me feel better because then at least we could have a chance at making a payment plan or something.

Thanks again for listening. We desperately want to do the right thing-we just aren't sure exactly what that is yet, but we're getting there. We have an appointment with a lawyer on Monday (free consultation) and we speak to our credit counselor (we use Novadebt-they were highly recommended to us) regularly.

Oh and also on Monday my husband has a job interview! Fingers crossed. He is also waiting to hear back about a temporary assignment he's up for. Either would be a lovely Christmas gift.

Gifts..ugh! We feel so terrible about that, especially where our 4, 6, and 10 year old nephews and niece are concerned but they know we love them. The parents of the two older ones ignored our email (they live out of state) explaining and apologizing so I don't know if they are angry or what. I'll see them next week at the family Christmas party and I'm a bit scared. We get along really well with them and are fairly close so it seems odd.

The other set of parents we figure are definitely angry with us. They are pretty much wrapped up in their own world. When we lost our baby they never called, emailed, or said a word. Ignored the whole thing. They are well off and brag about all the things they buy. To them its all about what connections you have and how much money you have. The more you have, the better a person you are. It's something I've never understood. Oh well. If they are angry we'll have to deal with it. If we had the money we'd spoil everyone but we just don't.

Both my parents and my husband's understand and have been supportive. They've had their own financial hardships so they truly understand the place we 're in right now. It helps. (My parents don't know how bad things are but they know we don't have a lot of money.)

Everything sucks right now but we have faith that it will get better. There are definitely worse things in the world that having a lousy credit rating. We'll probably never get a house anyway (way way too expensive here in NYC) or a car (I can't drive because I am blind in one eye. My husband doesn't have his license. When he was in his teens he was hit by two drunk drivers within an 18 month span. Both times they ran up on the sidewalk and ran him over (he was walking with friends). He was badly hurt both times, and still has screws and plates in his leg. It really turned him off driving and I can't blame him.

Frankly I prefer living on cash now. It's simpler and in the long run, cheaper. I hate credit cards. The fees and rates can be downright abusive and I honestly believe that CC's can be addictive. Makes you feel like you have free money. Ugh! If I don't have the cash for it I can't afford it/don't need it and that's fine. I know credit checks are done sometimes when applying for a job or renting an apartment, and we'll just have to deal with that somehow until we get back on our feet and everything straightened out.

Anyway, thanks again for letting me ramble on!
 
#30 ·
We're not 100% sure bankruptcy is our best option. We know our credit will be wrecked either way (which worries me because I know many employers do credit checks, which I think is discriminatory, since having bad credit doesn't mean someone is stupid, untrustworthy, irresponsible or would make a lousy employee.) We're carefully investigating all our options to be sure we make the right choice. We want to be fully educated in all the options and their consequences. We don't live in a community property state and that seems to be a positive thing.
IMO you have no need to declare bankruptcy *unless* you actually are sued.

What you can tell the creditors is this:
"I'm sorry - we wish we could pay you - when we're back on our feet, we will begin repayment. In the meantime, you're going to have to wait - I mean you could sue us, but if that happened, then we'd be *forced* into bankruptcy, and then you wouldn't get anything. Neither of us want that, I'm sure, right?"

My biggest worry is being sued/judgements made against us or having a bank account frozen/seized. We have two checking accounts, both jointly held. One is our main house account and the other is used only by me for my freelance business. Mine is the one that I'm worried about as my husband's is protected-per NY state law they can't touch the first $2500 because it is from protected deposits-in his case, unemployment benefits, and we haven't had more than that in the account in months.
Sued possibly. Judgments - if sued, definitely. Garnishing - possible but it sounds like you're paying all you can to the creditors already. Seizing/freezing? Not unless it's IRS debt, I think but I suppose it varies by state.

Again - IF you get sued? Then you go bankrupt. In the meantime you keep reassuring the creditors you do intend to pay them as soon as you can.

They give you notice before freezing/garnishing a bank account, don't they? If so that makes me feel better because then at least we could have a chance at making a payment plan or something.
They can't garnish w/o a judgment, and they can't get a judgment w/o a suit, and you will get notified in the case of a suit. And if that happens, you call a bankruptcy attorney.

Thanks again for listening. We desperately want to do the right thing-we just aren't sure exactly what that is yet, but we're getting there. We have an appointment with a lawyer on Monday (free consultation) and we speak to our credit counselor (we use Novadebt-they were highly recommended to us) regularly.
Prediction: The lawyer, if he's a bankruptcy lawyer, will recommend bankruptcy.

Prediction: The credit counselor will recommend you work with them.

Me: You aren't bankrupt yet and debt plans do nothing YOU can't do for yourselves more diligently - and >50% of those credit plans are scum. Dunno about Novadebt.

Good luck to DH on the job interview!
 
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#18 ·
Oh about our heating bill (gas-also used for cooking). We've been on the balanced budget program which means our bill was always a flat $150 a month all year. (It works out better-otherwise you get billed every two months and it's horrendous) This year's program just ended and we will have to wait until the next bill to see what next years rate will be. They figure it out using your previous years usage and fortunately our usage this past year was much lower than last years (we actually have $14.00 in credit for overpaying!) so HOPEFULLY that will mean a lower rate!
 
#19 ·
I am so sorry you are dealing with all of this! My husband and I found ourselves in a similar situation last year when he lost his job. His company stopped doing business in our state all together. He also carried our insurance and we have a son that is "uninsurable" . We had to choose between being able to afford insurance and our second vehicle. We were so upside down on the vehicle that we couldnt get rid of it without owing thousands. We did file bankruptcy earlier this year and we surrendered the car. It hasnt been easy but we had searched for other ways around it and realized we would lose control of everything if we didnt do it. I am not saying its the only solution to your situation, but I am saying that we have been there. Wishing you good luck on what ever your decision is!
 
#21 ·
Can you take the money out of your accounts and just use money orders so they cannot freeze them?

My dh has his own cons business. Things were slow last year and he saw it continuing again the beginning of this year. He was on the computer putting out resumes all day. He did finally get a job; very little pay and working midnights. He also did some of his cons business during the day. Just to let you know you are not alone in this economy. It's touching everyone. Some people are just getting hit harder than others.

My problem with bankruptcy isn't whats happening to you. It's the people who think they are entitled to all this stuff and both have jobs; run up their charge cards and then file bankruptcy.
 
#25 ·
BerryWriter said:
Mine however seems to be fair game and they can take 50% of the balance I believe. What really worries me is that my bank account is with HSBC-and my husband has two credit cards with HSBC, which has me worried that they might just dip into my account. They refused to take my husband's name off, saying it's against the law and I have to close it and open a new one in just my name. I may end up doing that, although it's a hassle and they do a credit check which may prevent it from being approved.
Seems illegal to me. Noone is allowed to dip in anyones account just because you gave them your debit card number/checking account. They are not authorized.

Of course they won't take your husbands name off of it because that gives them two people to go after, instead of one.
 
#31 ·
Seems illegal to me. Noone is allowed to dip in anyones account just because you gave them your debit card number/checking account. They are not authorized.
That actually depends. I'm sure you've read some of my PSA's about not letting companies debit your account--but to always use your bank's online bill pay. The reason is in all that little fine print/legal mumbo jumbo that you have to agree to before allowing a company to withdraw money from your account whether it's by ach or your debit card, there is almost always a default clause in there. Meaning they were given access once, but in the event of default, they can try to debit your account for either the past due or the full balance owed. I've seen it happen quite a few times when I worked at the banks and it's messy. People aren't expecting it, because honestly, how often do we read all that fine print? Then bam, the money is gone, if they don't notice they can overdraw the account. There was a customer at a bank who couldn't buy groceries because the cable company did this to her.

Berry--I would suggest that if you've ever allowed any of the companies you are currently past due on do an auto-withdrawal or a direct debit from your account, that you close it and open a new one. It could potentially save you a lot of headaches and hassle in the long run.
 
#27 ·
QUOTE. I can't drive because I am blind in one eye. UNQUOTE
_________________________________________________
If your other eye is normal , then you should be able to drive in NY.

My husband is legally blind in one eye and has a CDL class B lisense. He drives for a highway dept so that means yes, a BIG truck. He does just fine. He wears glasses to protect his good eye. He only needs glasses to read. When he takes his eye exam to be renew his lisence, he does not wear his glasses.
The newest law says a CDL driver has to have a medical exam every 2 yrs now. If you have a medical problem it goes on your lisense as a restriction but that only means you cannot drive out of state for hire. His regular lisense had no restrictions of any kind even though he has been blind in the one eye since about age 10.
__________________________________________________
Your checking acct , you can just stop putting money in it, and then open one up in your name alone.
__________________________________________________
 
#28 ·
Honestly, I am with her on not drivng with only one good eye in NYC. Way, way too much is going on on those streets to have any, even minor, handicap while driving.
Look at your unemployment regs carefully Every state is a little different, but in NJ I am allowed to earn 20% of my unemployment before it affects my check. I do more than that because I started just before the downturn and am a teacher who knew I was probably going to be out a full school year by the time I applied and I wanted to stretch out my payments. In NJ at least, if you have money reduced from your check it stays in your "claim account" and you can get it later. NOw that Obama has added enough extensions to make it two years, maybe it isn't as important. Although it also makes my resume more consistant. The thing to watch for is working more than 31 hours. If I work work 32 hours it is considered full time and I lose my entire check for the week. At the rate I am working, it makes a difference of about 300 a week. I try very very hard to work less than about 30 hours. It also allows me to have enough time to search for jobs where I can meet my budget.
About the bank account. Hogwash. I don't see how they can make you keep his name on the account or even why they would want you too. If he is a credit risk, I would have thought they would want you to remove him. However, you probably need to have him there when you do it,so he can sign the papers. If they are still fussing about this, find another bank for your business and if you think best leave this account open with just enough to keep it open.
Everyone's thoughts and prayers are with you. It is a hard time but things will have to get better, won't they?
 
#32 ·
Just sending you hugs. You've gotten some good advice. Hang in there, it will get better.
 
#33 ·
Many good thoughts from here too! One of the things I'd be doing as pt work if I lived in/around NYC is being a "first reader" for some of the publishers. I can't because we live too far away. If your DH could p/u mss at publishers, do you have the credentials for that? Do you know one genre of fiction/nonfiction well enough to be a first reader? It isn't much, but it might bring in some more needed $$$.

Also, I don't know if your DH has tried this, but has he asked the local legal aid people if they need help, know of someone who does, who'll pay??? That may be something that you thought of long ago, or is inappropriate, but it's an idea.

Good luck!

Judi
 
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