Wachovia & changing the terms ..I'm done (LONG)

**NikoSan999** · 02-25-2010, 01:23 PM

Originally Posted by Greebo

Can you qualify for a Chapter 13? If you're $2k/month behind, and a Chap 13 can repay your creditors eventually but slower than originally expected, that might be the route to take. I doubt you're at 7 status, but I'm not sure of the means test on either.

Regardless - hang in there Niko - you guys have been doing the absolute best you can, and you know we're all behind you.

We could probably go either way. But we don't want a 7 if at all avoidable. As I've said before the business is first priority. It's our only income and there's nothing else to be had here.

His concern is that they would MAKE us do a 7. I don't think so but can't swear to that. The means test isn't only based on income solely. There are IRS based "needs" that are also taken into consideration, like food, vehicle expenses etc that come off the income level. So while it may look like you make to much for the 7, you really don't when those things come off the top. We're slightly over the top.

So we want a 13. And since we don't want to keep/can't afford to keep.. the house, it would free up more money for the payback. Unfortunately the debt is $750,000 ballpark minus what principle has been paid back in last year. Full payback on that would be ballpark $12,500 a month. That's not going to happen...if could do that we wouldn't be filing.

Greebo, thank you, I know that had to be hard. You DO have a heart...I knew it...I just won't tell anyone.

Crap Wachovia is on the phone.....

**NikoSan999** · 02-25-2010, 09:11 PM

Ok, to anyone following this or ever read anything I ever posted that said PLEASE, READ EVERY LINE, EVERY WORD, BEFORE YOU SIGN, I'm going to tell you one more time...Please

That was Wachovia on the phone to see if we had received the papers. I pretended like he was gone and she said that was fine she could talk to me since I was guarantor also. WTF!!! Sorry...I said, Excuse me, I'm only on there as able to sign checks. She said no I signed as borrower right along side with hubby. I told her that's not what Katrina said when she had us sign them. She didn't know what to say and I didn't press it as I didn't want her to have a clue what was going on. I said that's fine but could she fax the loan papers over since I couldn't find ours and he would want to know what was going on. She said yes and did. She also said the credit risk people would need them. She said they were sent out every year and I said this was the first time period since the loan was taken out and she tried to tell me no it wasn't. Sorry, yes it was. This I would have remembered.

Oh my God, The reason they wanted all the information that I said on the first post is because in the mass of papers should there be a default or if they call it in ( which stated in the papers they could do at any time for any reason ) all that stuff is collateral. ALL real and personal property, not just business related, both houses, insurance policies, 401K's, any retirement, vehicles, equiptment, jewelry, furniture, any paper/cd's, money markets etc. They have the legal right every year to update what we have and add to their collateral.

In other words they own us. Lock stock and barrel. And we signed this. I believed her because she was "nice" that I was just signing for rights to sign checks etc. So I signed as guarantor but I didn't sign the note. Not that at this point it makes a difference.

So, they are really anxious to get it signed now even tho it dosen't go into effect until April 27th. I wonder why the hurry....

I hope they all sit and spin on a sharp object, naked in an ice storm in the dark

**frugalfoster** · 02-25-2010, 10:54 PM

OMG!!!!! Get a lawyer.....one who knows how to deal with this type of matter!!! This is CRAZY!!!!

**dcompton** · 02-25-2010, 11:05 PM

It almost sounds like we don't just need to read every line, but retain a lawyer to read every line of every paper before we sign. And have him read it two or three times, just to be sure.

That is totally evil. Change your names and move to Argentina if you have to to escape a company like that! I won't tell a soul where you've gone.

**NikoSan999** · 02-25-2010, 11:35 PM

I think Wachovia/Hells Fargo is trying to out do Bank of Hell for the #1 top most hated bank in the US...wonder how many other people they've written that stuff up on.

Bank of Hell is still #1 but Wachovia/Hells Fargo is a close second and gaining ground. Kind of like watching a horse race to see who gets to the finish line first.

Bank of Hell...ahead by a nose...Hells Fargo is gaining ground...they're running neck to neck...Ahh..Hells Fargo stumbles...getting back up...Bank of Hell thumbs nose...and the winner going to the circle for the #1 place of Satan would be...stay tuned and we'll be back after this commercial

**Palooka** · 02-25-2010, 11:45 PM

Niko, ask yourself what's the worst they can do to you?

If you think the worst, they/we/everyone has laws to protect you one way or another..

They won't be able to touch you anymore.

I hope your business can continue.

**Michelle68** · 02-27-2010, 05:32 PM

I'm so sorry this is happening, Niko. Nothing, NOTHING is worth the health of your family. You have each other, and that's the important thing. Be there for each other, support each other. No one can take that way from you. We are all here for you.

**frugalfoster** · 02-27-2010, 06:05 PM

Just wanted you to know I was thinking of you and hoping things were looking better...

**NikoSan999** · 02-27-2010, 06:10 PM

Just got home a little while ago from the lawyers office. Will update when I get some coffee and wind down. Hoping MauiM is ok...

**mauimagic** · 02-27-2010, 06:24 PM

Mahalo - I am okay - just getting caught up with you!! What I tell everyone is that you must take care of your health and family first!! That's it!! Please let us know how everything is going - we are all learning too!!

**alotofgooddeals** · 02-27-2010, 06:29 PM

Seriously.... the things that i have been through the past year or so lead me to tell you...let it go...After losing my dad and my daughter being very sick...nothing and i mean nothing matters more than your family and their health. It sounds like your family is at their breaking point... stay in the house for as long as you can and save save save and when the time comes you have to leave you will have the money needed to find a new home... Hard decision and I wouldn't give people that advice unless there was no other way... Seriously though your family sounds like they are at their breaking point and family and theirs and your health are really all that matters...

Take care and you are in my prayers and thoughts....

**NikoSan999** · 02-27-2010, 06:30 PM

Originally Posted by mauimagic

Mahalo - I am okay - just getting caught up with you!! What I tell everyone is that you must take care of your health and family first!! That's it!! Please let us know how everything is going - we are all learning too!!

Girlfriend I was so worried about you. I'm so happy you're safe. Please be careful

More later

**mauimagic** · 02-27-2010, 06:41 PM

You are an amazing person - mahalo for thinking of me - especially with all that you are going through!! Sending prayers and aloha your way!!

**Russ** · 02-27-2010, 06:55 PM

Originally Posted by alotofgooddeals

... stay in the house for as long as you can and save save save and when the time comes you have to leave you will have the money needed to find a new home... Hard decision and I wouldn't give people that advice unless there was no other way... .

remember what I said about cash Niko....

**NikoSan999** · 02-27-2010, 07:35 PM

Ok, update on the day
Today was the lawyers appointment. We had the worksheets filled out but there are tons more to fill out. You would think that there would be less filing a 13 than a 7 but no.

He said we could file a 13. No one could make us file 7 in which all debts are wiped out unless you want to reaffirm your house or keep paying on your vehicles. We could file a 7 if we wanted and could probably pass the means test even letting go of the house.

But that's not what we want hugely because of wanting to keep the business etc. He said he didn't see any way the trustee would want to take it especially since we were willing to make whatever payments to the trustee to disburse back to creditors. Payback is based on your assets and not on income. I couldn't explain it again so won't try.

In Florida in a 13 you are allowed $5000 each personal exemption so a couple would be $10000. Not including house. Our vehicles are paid for and have been for several years. We may have to buy one of them back out which sucks but can live with. The equiptment, most of it at hubbys work is paid for with the exception of a truck and a forklift which will be reaffirmed and continue to make payments on as we have been all along. So the paid for equiptment will have to be bought back out also. But all the bought back items are are yardsale or depreciated cost so can live with that also. We'll see if it goes as he says on that part.

We had decided to ask whether it might be beneficial for him to file and leave me out of it. We would try to keep up on the house and my credit cards and if we found down the road that we couldn't then I could file at that time after giving it a shot in the dark. We had already stopped paying on his awhile back so we could continue to make mine on time. Now it's hard to even do that without his. It would salvage one of our credits at least. By the way, the cost for one to file and a couple to file are the same price so he wasn't making more by me filing. Probably more of a headache for both.

He looked at the Wachovia papers and said his biggest concern was with that. Thank God I answered the phone that day and sweet talked her into faxing those papers that they never gave up copies of. ( see above post ) He said Whoa...this could be a real problem right here pointing to my signature on the guarantor section. I said but I'm not on the note. He said it wasn't the same as on a house. He explained the difference and again I couldn't start to repeat it back to you all. So all remember that. On a loan it dosen't matter that you're not on the note in most all circumstances. Some are different but it's a real touchy situation. He said if I didn't file also they would most definitely put a lien on this house. No doubt about it. And since this house had depreciated to about the amount of the loan, $125,000, they could probably do something there since I, myself don't have anything else.

When I told him I was only supposed to be signing to be able to sign checks etc and that's what she said it was while she kept talking and talking...he started laughing. It wasn't a nice laugh. It was a pissed laugh. He got kind of a hard look to his eyes and said that's what they do. I have to say, I think this lawyer is out of the ordinary. A few months ago he talked us out of filing. He said wait and see what happens, maybe you won't need to. He's a keeper. I think. Being nice was what screwed me with the Wachovia lady.

So bottom line there was if I don't file also it dosen't do any good for him to go alone. So I will be also.

Now to get the rest of the papers filled out. I hope to get them done by the end of this week or end of next week at the latest. Like I said there's a ton and a lot of looking back at other stuff and tracking things down.

The next round of credit cards are due in a few days which would've been late anyway so I expect the phone calls to start getting worse which will drive me crazy at his work. Wish I could change that number. None have the home phone. The house payment is due the first and I have $319 in the checking with next unemployment check not coming until 2 weeks. I had electric and insurances due out of the last one and his paycheck. So I guess this starts the not paying the house that I thought was going to happen last month. I sold my stuff last month to delay one month what was doomed to happen anyway.

Will update as things progress or drive me crazy to where I have to vent or scream...That shouldn't take long...