Financial Infidelity

**LakeMtn** · 10-21-2011, 12:12 PM

I'm new here and this is my story.....
I married my wife 27+ years ago and because of her financial infidelity I wish now that I hadn't. When we got married I told her no credit cards as if we couldn't pay cash for something we didn't need it that bad. Well as time went on she opened various credit card accounts with out my knowledge and I started to notice we didnt have funds to pay for even the basic's. I wanted to trust her but I couldn't turn my head and ignore it so I started some snooping and found out she had multiple credit cards and they were all maxed out. I was furious but most of all just very hurt. We managed to get a consolidation loan and we paid those off. This first time was about 15 years ago and debt was 10k.....but this continued to repeat itself ..20 K the next time 30 K the next and then 60K which I had to borrow against our home to pay off. Try as I could I couldn't control her even though my names were on all the bank accounts and had the checkbook. She even went so far as to open her own account without me knowing. Lately it has been better as except for our home we'll be debt free next year. Because we borrowed against the house we probably owe more on that than its worth. I told her last night that if this ever happened again I was going to divorce her as I can't take this any more. Basically my heart is broken, I can't trust her with a dollar and sometimes I wonder whether I shouldn't just divorce her now. There's many more details to this story but thats the nuts and bolts of it.

I would very much like to chat with someone that has been through this experience also. I'm just at my end right now. I'm tired of it.

**krbshappy71** · 10-21-2011, 12:32 PM

Originally Posted by LakeMtn

I'm new here and this is my story.....
I married my wife 27+ years ago and because of her financial infidelity I wish now that I hadn't. When we got married I told her no credit cards as if we couldn't pay cash for something we didn't need it that bad. Well as time went on she opened various credit card accounts with out my knowledge and I started to notice we didnt have funds to pay for even the basic's. I wanted to trust her but I couldn't turn my head and ignore it so I started some snooping and found out she had multiple credit cards and they were all maxed out. I was furious but most of all just very hurt. We managed to get a consolidation loan and we paid those off. This first time was about 15 years ago and debt was 10k.....but this continued to repeat itself ..20 K the next time 30 K the next and then 60K which I had to borrow against our home to pay off. Try as I could I couldn't control her even though my names were on all the bank accounts and had the checkbook. She even went so far as to open her own account without me knowing. Lately it has been better as except for our home we'll be debt free next year. Because we borrowed against the house we probably owe more on that than its worth. I told her last night that if this ever happened again I was going to divorce her as I can't take this any more. Basically my heart is broken, I can't trust her with a dollar and sometimes I wonder whether I shouldn't just divorce her now. There's many more details to this story but thats the nuts and bolts of it.

I would very much like to chat with someone that has been through this experience also. I'm just at my end right now. I'm tired of it.

Oh NO!!! I am so sorry you are going through this! Are you going through some marriage counseling to try and work things out?

I personally wouldn't throw away a marriage over money, but I would for sexual infidelity so we all have our absolutes when it comes to what we can and cannot handle.

Communication sounds like a huge part of this and not just on her part. My personal recommendation, as just an "average jo" person, is that you both see a private counselor and then also come together for joint sessions. I know its tempting to just bail and say screw it but it seems to be if money was all you had together, you wouldn't have lasted this long in a marriage together.

I know you have your financial goals and this is a HUGE breach of trust on her part, I know there must be so much anger and hurt feelings. Counseling can really help each person dig deep into it all as well has learning healthy ways to cope with it now that its done and to trust again in the future once that trust is earned back. Both of you have made a few mistakes along the road, communication-wise. But that is in the past now, I do think counseling could help save the future. Also, have you checked out Dave Ramsey's Financial Peace University? It seems very aligned to what you were trying to do with your finances and offers the personal side of it as well for couples trying to do their money together.

**madhen** · 10-21-2011, 12:36 PM

I haven't been through it, but I *was* hooked up with a cc-crazy partner for seven years of my life. When we went our separate ways, he took the car payment and I took all the cc debt, and considered it a fair exchange for my freedom.

If you want the marriage to work, can you find counseling for both you and your wife? Specifically, counseling that addresses her obsessive need to spend and its underlying reasons?

**frugalfranny** · 10-21-2011, 12:49 PM

No help here, but just hugs that you are going through this.

Originally Posted by madhen

Specifically, counseling that addresses her obsessive need to spend and its underlying reasons?

FOR SURE!! And if two people aren't on the 'same page' about money there will always be some problems.

Good luck in working things out..............

**OOwl** · 10-21-2011, 01:33 PM

Wow, just heartfelt compassion.

My son used to spend money "under the radar" of his and his wife's family budget (and ask me to "loan" him money when he ran short, not telling his wife about either) but since they started Financial Peace University, he has totally quit doing that. The class really helped their marriage, too. It's very empowering to BOTH partners and allows both to feel a measure of dignity and control without feeling like they are subordinate to the other. It teaches daily, weekly, lifelong communication skills, as well. Might try that as well as traditional marriage counseling. Sounds like your wife has a few issues to work out. Hoping the best for you. . . .

**Sumacaroni** · 10-21-2011, 05:03 PM

I'm really sorry this happened for both you and your marriage's sake. I'll definitely say that I do know how much the financial infidelity hurts.... it is THE number one reason I found this forum back in January. My Mister didn't use credit cards (thank goodness!) but I suspected he was being very dishonest about his commission income for the past couple years and then one early morning back in January I found a cashed check receipt to the tune of $1400 and yet, oddly enough, I did not have any idea what it was for or where that might be??!! My suspicions were not unfounded, he was basically taking large sums of money for himself and hiding/lying about them - not mentioning it, not putting it in the family account -spending it on things for himself and wondering if I'd notice, hoping I wouldn't, I suppose.

Fast forward several hours to nightfall, I made it very very clear that, to me, this dishonesty was as bad to me as my cheating physically would be to him. Since I manage the bills and budget and he knew I was struggling to make ends meet, I was very hurt that he would let me carry all that around all by myself and even make things worse by not putting ca$h in the coffer! Fast forward again to now, 10 months later, we've got things better communicated and we're on the right path - gosh, it sure is a LOT easier with his FULL income.

And like you said, there's quite a bit more to the story but I won't bore everyone with the details. Just suffice it to say that Financial Infidelity does VERY VERY serious damage to the foundation of a relationship. Yeah, I think some of it is communication, some of it is control issues and, from what I have heard, if there were a Financial Peace University offered in my neighborhood or nearby - I would try my best to clear our schedules and attend!

**LakeMtn** · 10-21-2011, 06:15 PM

Counseling...........ah yes.......... one of those details. I set up counseling with both a credit counseling service AND marriage counselor......nope she wouldn't go because she "promises not to do it again". I ended up going to counseling to deal with my anger and hurt....didn't help much. I'm just tired of getting drop kicked.

Sumacaroni is right......its like I caught her in the sack with the banker only its worse....at least I could kick the crap out of the banker if it was physical. We'll see.......I'm just trying to love her as much as I can right now, but when you can't have trust its tough. Divorce would be hell too. The house we have I built her with my own two hands, I would likely lose that....then part of my retirement pension would likely get dinged.......then there's alimony. Also she's diabetic and thankfully I have good insurance so she gets the medical attention she needs. Losing that would adversely affect her health.......so in sum I'm torn.

It really comes down to the old Ann Landers question-all " are you better off with him (her) or without him (her)". Sometimes for better or for worse is just worse.

**HappyMama** · 10-21-2011, 06:24 PM

I am so sorry, only when someone wants to change or has consequences will they. Just thought I would send you hugs and blessings.

**ml2620** · 10-21-2011, 07:11 PM

At least if she was in bed with the banker, it wouldn't cost you every month. Paying off this debts like catching her in bed once a month!

I haven't had this happen exactly, but discovered my husband owed the IRS over 100k three months after we were married. Four years later we are on a better path, have a beautiful baby girl and a happy life. That said, it's the card I hold in my hand every time we have an argument.

I have different advice for you, and some will disagree. You wife has done this three or four times now? If youkve let it happen more than once you have to take responsibility for your part in letting this happen.

We went to marriage counseling and it was a big milestone to be able to tell myself that I went into our marriage with nagging suspicions I did not address and I didn't do the hardwork necessary to build a solid marriage foundation. I was lazy, didn't want to deal with the emotion of confrontation and was afraid to walk away. I knew this was a problem, didn't know the scope. You need to acknowledge that their were reasons you turned a blind eye the second and third time and as a result you bear so responsibility for the debt..

Next, closing your bank account and open one in just your name so you know you can cover the basic bills. Until trust is regained (but you will always have to be vigilant.

Get a copy of your credit report free online from each of the major reporting agencies and see what else might be there that you don't know about and notify each one of cancellation or possible fraud (if she signed your name to credit apps she has committed fraud). Run your report regularly to see what might have changed. You'd have to check the law, but you should put a note on your credit report that your wife has attempted to open credit in your name and to double verify a credit application. This is identity theft. It might be worth talking to a divorce attorney or debt attorney about, a free consultation.

Tell her the counseling is not an option, you will otherwise sell the house to pay off the debts and cut off her health insurance and have her charged with credit fraud and identity theft for signing you up for credit cards. Those are the cards you now hold. Say it nicely, not with anger, it's just a fact, blackmail if you will.

I've been there (sort of. If he did it again, he knows hed be gone so fast his head would spin) I'll be thinking of you.

**mndtrp** · 10-21-2011, 09:00 PM

Jeez, threatening to blackmail your wife. That should go over well.

**craftypam** · 10-21-2011, 11:22 PM

I'm not sure how Lakemtn "let it happen" and he should take responsiblility.
How do you stop an adult from getting charge cards and using them behind your back? I don't know if all states makes both parties responsible for charge cards, but in our state if the wife opens a charge card I believe the husband is still responsible for it. And when someone has a problem spending money they don't have and they don't fix the problem what is to stop them?
Trust is VERY IMPORTANT in a relationship and I fully understand Lakemtn's wanting to give up; especially because she doesn't seem to be interested in fixing them problem (going to counseling). Hugs to you Lakemtn and I hope you find a solution so you can be happy.

**frugalwarrior2** · 10-21-2011, 11:45 PM

Is there any chance your wife is bi-polar? This kind of obsessive spending is a symptom.

**ml2620** · 10-22-2011, 05:56 AM

Originally Posted by craftypam

I'm not sure how Lakemtn "let it happen" and he should take responsiblility.

If he had run his credit report regularly after the first time, he might have caught this long before the bills got so high.

I agree, the blackmail was a bad idea I was just angry on your behalf. I apologize, it was not good advice. Hardball did not work well with my husband.

But a husband and wife's credit is separate, at least that's what our tax attorney told us. I have excellent credit, while DH hasn't been able to get any credit for several years. So what she did was identity theft and credit card fraud, and those are crimes.

Also, over the years of raising us, my mom had a credit card my dad didn't know about on which she ran up about 30K in charges. She had to tell him at some point and it was devastating to him as they were just starting to come up for air financially after raising four children. All four of us kids gave them money towards the debt as we could afford. Not sure how they dealt with it emotionally though. Her reasoning was that for a long time, the cc prevented alot of money arguments and made life easier for all of us, and she thought she could pay it off without my dad finding out.

**xtena** · 10-22-2011, 11:17 AM

Did Lakemtn say she took the cards out in HIS name? I didn't see that part in the original post. If they were only in her name they would not show up on his credit report.

**Telephus44** · 10-22-2011, 05:25 PM

I haven't been though this, but for me I would have been out of there by the 3rd time, if not the second. It's one thing to run up the cards once, have a heart to heart, promise never to do it again - and another thing to do it FOUR times and still refuse to go to counseling.