Need help talking to dh about money...

[Valerie in WA]

I need some suggestions of actual words to use. Right now all that comes to mind is: "It really makes me angry how you p*ss away money." I realize that that isn't very constructive. So I'm asking for some help.

Here's the situation: My dh is self employed and works pretty steadily. Every two weeks he writes a check from the business and he deposits it into our household checking account. I take care of the household finances.

In looking at his P & L (profit & loss) statement, there is no reason why he shouldn't be able to make that payment, even when he has slow times. I have done the math based on him working 46 weeks a year (which is about how it ends up), and accounting for his expenses (as indicated on his P & L). This math shows me that he should be able to 'pay the house' (as we call it) $1500 every two weeks, plus have $150/month for spending, plus $75/month for extra groceries he picks up along the way, plus $167/month to set aside for retirement.

He does NOT set aside money for retirement.

Furthermore, right this very minute, he 'owes' the house $1500 and the IRS $1932 (quarterly payment) and he only has $1,800.

I'm angry. I'm frustrated. I'm slightly scared. Last year, when tax time came, his business owed $5500, plus $2000 for the new quarterly payment. I paid the $5500 out of the household money, and he paid the $2000 out of the business. Right now, I have $1100 in the EF and I do have $1000 set aside that I don't count as savings. That is the money for the utility room remodel that he plans to do in the next couple of months.

I DO NOT consider this a time to use the EF. These are anticipated expenses that he has not prepared for.

How can I talk to him about this without accusing, belittling or yelling? I really feel like I bailed him out last year at tax time and I don't want to do it again.

BTW, in his defense, part of the reason he's short on cash is that he recently had a slow time: about six weeks working only about half his usual hours. During that time, he did NOT 'pay the house' his usual amount. Two of the checks were only $1000, instead of $1500. I made up the $1000 deficiency ($500 x 2) by working extra. HOWEVER he SHOULD have adequate money to cover this, based on my math, KWIM?

TIA for your suggestions.

[midwestgal]

Boy, this is always a tough one. It seems that in most marriages, there is always the "nerd," the one who likes to keep an eye on the bottom line. Dave Ramsey talks about this too. He is the nerd, and his wife is more of the "free spirit" in the marriage. The nerd wants to reign in the free spirit, and the free spirit thinks the nerd is too rigid. Perhaps you could persuade your husband to your way of thinking a little at a time. Would he be willing to add the $167 retirement fund when he pays the house? In this way, after a time, you could show him how this fund has accumulated. This might make him more cognizant of where all the money is really going and how it is spent.

I don't really have a pat answer for this! Finances are one of those areas in which couples need to compromise, negotiate etc. It can be pretty tricky!

[midwestgal]

PS That should be "REIN in the free spirit" above. Whoops! I sometimes wish there was a way to edit what we have already written!

[frugalfoster]

Is it possible to take over his books? If you have the type of mind that works well with figures then maybe he would be relieved to have you take care of those duties. Some self-employed people are great at making money but not so good at accounting....sounds like you could help him out greatly....tread lightly though because sometimes it can become a control issue.

[ewokgirl]

Does he have an accountant, or does he do all the work himself? It sounds like he's handling all the accounting himself, and perhaps that's just not his gift. If you have the time (as in, not another job outside of the home), perhaps you could broach this by saying you'd like to have a hand in his business and alleviate some of the burden from his shoulders. Let him know that you would like to handle the accounting, then lay out your plan. That's just scary that he's not saving for retirement. You might point out that you'd like to see him able to retire someday, and with your plan, he can do so. Make it about helping him and making things easier for him. Hopefully he will respond well to that.

[missymomof3]

I learned that using "I" statements instead of "you" like "you always" or "you never" tend to be less negative and the other person responds better. Perhaps you could try that(even though i still have trouble doing that myself....)

[peanut]

This might also be a time management issue. He may be spending more money on things in his business to 'save time', or to build contacts. Ie. he may want to give contacts his business, even though things cost more through them. But the time issue can be big. If you're busy, you just pick up the first thing you see that you need. You don't comparison shop. Maybe he needs help in this area?

Another consideration is he may need help at the workplace thinking ahead or planning ahead. That also saves time and money in the long run. Does he have time to do this? Does he do it? These are areas you may be able to help him with, depending on your current relationship with him.

I agree that offering to help might alleviate a lot of difficulties. Or asking him where he sees he needs help. Or what he sees as his strengths and weaknesses in the business. Or what he likes to do and what he doesn't like to do. In short, engage him in conversation about his business, how it's going, and how he feels about it. If he's open, bring up suggestions or offer your assistance...or suggest hiring out whatever is causing problems.

Another thought might be he may not have proper systems set in place to save time and money. Does he have a proper chain of command? Does he have a recycling system set up? Does he have a routine schedule for getting paperwork and banking done, and is his office set up to do it efficiently?

HTH and gives you some ideas.

Jean

[Valerie in WA]

He spends about half a day, twice a month, doing his billing and mileage records, etc. I just asked him if he'd like to teach me to do it, to save him time. But he declined. I really think it would be faster if he does it himself.

We use an accountant only for tax time. 99% of the time, my dh is working as a sub-contractor for a larger general contractor. He bills them hourly. He does not buy materials.

Jean, while I appreciate your wise comments and the time it took to type them, the problem isn't business spending. It's recreational spending. I guess I didn't make that clear. He takes all of his discretionary money out of the business (as an owners capitol draw). If there's money there, he spends it, not considering that he will have a large expense the next month (such as the $2000 quarterly estimated tax payment).

What I think he needs is an 'allowance', but when I've mentioned it in the past, he's balked. I have pointed out that his discretionary spending is well over $200/month. And mine is $40/month.

[Valerie in WA]

After I made the original post yesterday, I did the math and figured out what he would need to deposit to "freedom accounts" to stay level each month.

For example, the accountant fee is about $450-500/year. So if he sets aside $40/month, he'll have the money at the end of the year.

I use this system to manage household money for curriculum, van maintenance, home maintenance, medical, clothing, household furnishings, vacation, gifts and kids' lessons. It's been working well for me since the beginning of the year.

I'm going to show him my system and ... suggest...beg...ask...that he use a similar system.

[Sari]

No advice, just wishing you good luck. DH and I have issues with money that we're trying to overcome right now.

[Libby]

Valerie, just wanted to wish you luck. Finances/spending is a very tough subject to disucss with a significant other especially when yer both not even close to being on the same page. Perhaps suggest/beg (as you said) trying your method/way for a trial period of 3 months - that way he can see the benefits - not just after a month but he will see that its consistent?

Keep us updated - and GOOD LUCK GF!

[peanut]

Oops! Sorry Valerie. Glad you've hit on something to try anyhow. Next time I'll know to ask for clarification!

Jean

[Valerie in WA]

I'm dragging up this old thread because the same thing happened this year. We owed $3100 on taxes & the new quarterly payment due was $2750, plus it was the week for dh to pay the house it's $1600. My dh had only $1400 to his name. I had to bail him out by completely emptying our Freedom Account, which puts us in a bad spot. *sigh* That's three years in a row.

I'm building up to have a big talk with him on this topic, next weekend, spreadsheets, graphs & snowball charts in hand. I think I'm going to insist that we agree on a budget for ALL our money & must both agree on any expenditures beyond that.

He agrees about our goals: getting out of debt, getting 6 months savings set aside, and buying some investment property in 3 - 5 years, but on our current track, it won't happen. I have to make him see that.

[Darlene]

Just wanted to cheer you on Valerie!!

[peanut]

{{{HUGS!!!}}} Valorie. I hope it works out well. Maybe if the 'carrot' at the end of the tunnel is something recreational that he wants, he might go for it?

FWIW, we called it an allowance. But when DD#1 tried to implement the system in her marriage her DH had a real problem with the word "allowance". He felt he was being treated like a kid and restricted. Like she was trying to control him. What worked for them was to change the name of the money. They call it "blow money" because they can blow it on whatever they want. She writes down their goals and keeps them someplace where they can both see and review them weekly...along with a chart to show their progress.

FWIW, I'm thinking of picking up this idea here. I could use a chart for a few things. I think DD#1 keeps hers on the computer.