Healthcare and other issue's....

**suki** · 06-12-2008, 05:22 PM

Originally Posted by Greebo

No, I'm sorry, but you're thinking of FSA's. HSAs roll over year to year and are portable.

Correct... I confused the two.

At $5,400 per year... would've taken 22 years to save up enough to cover the medical expenses I've had in the last 5 years. Oh, but wait, they're only available IF you have insurance?

**Greebo** · 06-12-2008, 05:31 PM

Apparently so - but the HSA's are investment accounts, or can be, which means if a young married couple today invests the max in a mutual fund based HSA, by age 60 they could easily have a few million dollars saved up.

HSA's are a long term solution, obviously, and probably a good one, except for the must have insurance requirement. :/

**suki** · 06-12-2008, 05:39 PM

Seems like a bandaid, not a solution.

**Moor** · 06-12-2008, 06:35 PM

suki,
i want to make something clear to you. all my childhood, and some of my adult life, i have been without insurance because we were just too poor to afford it. my dh has a good job with good insurance, but even with that, i have several things wrong, that we are not able to afford the medication for. i know what it's like to go without my meds so that my family can eat or get things that they need. what my whole post was about, was the abusers of programs that are in place now, who refuse to do the things that are needed to get off of those programs. i pay taxes so that those people can sit on their butts and breed and bring up children who will do the same thing. and before you or anyone else brings up that i am talking about one race of people, i am talking about all races. this is not about race, it's about people who abuse the system period!
i know that having a job does not mean you can have affordable healthcare. that is not what i am talking about. i am not talking about people who try and use the said system's like they are meant to be used. again, it comes back to the people who abuse the system.
you told me that it was wrong to think that this proposed healthcare system would mean taking care of everyone. isn't that what it is proposed to do? give everyone affordable healthcare? but again, my original post and what i am talking about is people who abuse the system.
and as i stated, i was not talking about people who have tried and are trying to make things work and can't get the health care that they need. as others have posted, they know people who abuse the system. it's because of people who abuse the system that make me and others who feel the same way, feel like we do.
i am not omnipotent. it has just been my experience that if there is a universal healthcare system put in place, there will be people who abuse it so that those that really need help will not be able to get it.
not everyone out there is a leech. i feel and would love to be able to help those that can't afford health insurance. there should be a way to get the help that we need, but without the government stepping in. plain and simple. because they will screw it up!

Okay, maybe I am the one that doesn't get it. Healthcare is fine and dandy, the solution is out there already and everyone who is having difficulty with it just needs to buck up, work harder and fix it themselves. Nevermind if you've got MS and can't work anymore... figure it out! Nevermind if you can't afford medical coverage, work harder, move somewhere so that you can get higher pay and take care of it because we sure aren't gonna fix your problem for you.

Thanks for straightening me out
when you make statements like this, you are not getting my meaning! plain and simple. i was and am still complaining about the people who abuse the system so that those that really need help can't get it. i have stated that over and over. let me say it one more time, just to make sure that you have read this.....

my experiences have made me very jaded about our current propesed universal healthcare system. i FEEL that it will be a system that will be abused so that people who really need help will not get it. i FEEL that my taxes will be raised to help those ABUSERS. i FEEL that our government needs to stay out of it.
can you understand that??????

**suki** · 06-12-2008, 06:47 PM

I understand... I just don't agree. Thanks for your explanation.

*** edited to add:
I'm truly sorry for being snarky. I took the tone of your post which singled me out, perhaps in the wrong way. I disagree with your premise, but I thank you for sharing your thoughts.

**LuvMyHubby** · 06-12-2008, 06:57 PM

Originally Posted by Greebo

I challenge you to find one post in any of these threads that has suggested they are. (Except for the one where I flat out curse those people who carelessly, negligently, SHAMELESSLY bring children they can't afford into the world, on purpose, into a cycle of destitution, in which I am targeting a very SPECIFIC subset of the financially differently abled)

Huh? I never accussed and/or suggested that anyone was saying that. My intention was to point out that while there are flagrant abuses, there are also people who do what they have to do, get their lives in order and move on. To be honest, I didn't even see your post when I originally posted this morning so I certainly meant no disrespect to you.

**Moor** · 06-12-2008, 06:57 PM

thank you for that.

**Dad_of_4** · 06-12-2008, 07:04 PM

Originally Posted by suki

Seems like a bandaid, not a solution.

If we allowed everyone to have a health savings account with no insurance requirement, everyone could save for their medical care like they do for retirement. Saving as little as $200 a month would result in over $500,000.00 by the time most are 55.

Now less compare this to another government program. Social security. Social security was designed as a supplement to retirement but it grew into the only income for some retirees. Now the end of the line is in sight for SSI and people are starting to save for their retirement. People in their 30's or younger will never see SSI pay off. We will retire on our savings.

So we went from retirement provided by the employer to government run retirement savings to personnel savings for retirement. How about we just skip the step when the government is in change and go straight to personnel savings for medical care?

**Greebo** · 06-12-2008, 07:11 PM

Originally Posted by suki

Seems like a bandaid, not a solution.

It won't help those in dire straits now, I agree.

But think of what it will mean to the 20 year old today, who in 40 years, after maxing out his contributions, has a quadruple bypass?

This is the kind of solution that helps people do it themselves, and its the kind of solution we need more of.

**Greebo** · 06-12-2008, 07:14 PM

Originally Posted by LuvMyHubby

Huh? I never accussed and/or suggested that anyone was saying that. My intention was to point out that while there are flagrant abuses, there are also people who do what they have to do, get their lives in order and move on. To be honest, I didn't even see your post when I originally posted this morning so I certainly meant no disrespect to you.

My apologies - I've had one too many people put words in my mouth on this subject, so I'm over sensitive to it at this point. I misunderstood you and apologize for it, whole heartedly.

**LuvMyHubby** · 06-12-2008, 07:20 PM

No problem Greebo, it's cool.

**suki** · 06-12-2008, 07:30 PM

Greebo and Dadof4, your models both assume that one would remain healthy until reaching an older age and there's no accomodation for catastrophic illness for those under the age of 50... sorry, life just doesn't work that way. It's not a solution.

**Russ** · 06-12-2008, 07:36 PM

Originally Posted by suki

Greebo and Dadof4, your models both assume that one would remain healthy until reaching an older age and there's no accomodation for catastrophic illness for those under the age of 50... sorry, life just doesn't work that way. It's not a solution.

No plan is perfect.

**Greebo** · 06-12-2008, 07:59 PM

Originally Posted by suki

Greebo and Dadof4, your models both assume that one would remain healthy until reaching an older age and there's no accomodation for catastrophic illness for those under the age of 50... sorry, life just doesn't work that way. It's not a solution.

You're right - there will be exceptions to every circumstance. Its not a solution, its a tool.

But if it fails to work for 5%, or 10% or even 20% of people who use it, and the other 80% find great benefit in it, its still a good tool for people to use, and its a no-lose option because anything you put in you can use for health issues, any time.