Healthcare and other issue's....
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    Registered User Moor's Avatar
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    Default Healthcare and other issue's....

    there seems to be a lot of people telling us that we need a universal healthcare system, a system to feed the poor, to help the needy and all other sorts of things. well, i have a few things to say. it may offend some, but i am about tired of hearing everyone spout off at the mouth when they have not really enjoyed our national programs to begin with!

    let me begin with a little bit of background:
    my dad died when i was five. i was the youngest. there were still two boys living at home, 15 and 9. so because of our national SS, we got 4 checks a month. one for each one of us kids and my mom got a widow's benefit. but that is all that we got. there was no medicaid program back then. we are talking the 70's. and those 4 checks were not enough to get a place to live, buy food, get my mom back and forth to work, get us clothes, the needed things like toilet paper, toothpaste, those sort of things. but yet we made too much money to get food stamps! we moved in with my grandparents, who lived in a 2 bedroom house. my grandfather was disabled, but with all of the checks combined, we were still living off of wish sandwiches (bread, mayo, lettuce, tomatoe, jammed together, wishing i had some meat). still could not get help for food, we made too much money. but we could not afford to move, because, once a month paycheck, too much month. because we were paying for all healthcare, dental, food, housing, utilities, and such.
    yet, almost every month when we went to the grocery, there would be people with several carts paying for them in food stamps.
    give a little example, one woman three carts. one full of alcohol, one full of canned foods and such and the last one full of STEAKS!!!!!
    we were in line behind her. she paid for the first two with food stamps, the last one, she paid for with cash, from a roll about as big around as my arm. tell me that is not an abuse of the system, when here i am standing in line behind her, and i can barely afford to buy what i am, because i have to budget for everything to make sure my money last's until the end of the month. and it really burns my britches when i hear her tell her friend, if there are any food stamps left over you can buy them. this was back when food stamps were really food stamps!

    another example, when medicaid is first implanted on our society, we were still in the same boat, but now my mom is disabled. i watched her almost die before we could get help to her. sitting in the waiting room of the er, but because of her symptoms, she was not treated right away. it was only when she collasped *SP* that they rushed her back. they were too busy taking care of all of the medicaid people who were using the er as a dr's office to give two figs about a woman who was paying cash!

    so that is what i have witnessed out of our government run programs. i could give you numerous stories of all the abuses i have seen, been denied because of certain things, told by the workers who were suppossed to be helping us, that if our skin was a different color, then we would be able to get help. *NOT MY WORDS,THE SOCIAL WORKERS WORDS!!!!!*

    so yeah, if one more person tells me that i HAVE to help, i am going to scream. i am sorry, people just need to take care of themselves. i know that there are some who really need that help. they should get it. but not the ones that believe our government owes them everything. that is what is wrong with today's society anyway, we feel that the government owes us. sorry, but we owe ourselves!~

  2. #2
    Registered User Frugal Nurse's Avatar
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    Kudos.

    And dear god! Miss Moor- you brought back memories. We must have grown up together- cept there were 10 of us!! Where you living in my house too?

    Wish sandwich!! I LOVE that name for it!! We used to have bread and press it in the sugar. YUMM. and! Lettuce and Mayo YUMM!! never got tomatoes though.

    I could see steam coming up from your ears with that story about the 3 carts. damn!

    I have seen abuse myself. I worked for a public agency that in order for you to participate.. you must be on public assistance. It was a betterment program.. Oh yeah!! When it was time to come in for their stipends, oil credits, rent credits... they drove up in cars that were shiny and new.. I saw corvettes,a porche and mercedes. I was LIVID! .

    But what can I do.
    I really wanted to report them. But couldn't... I wasn't 100% sure if the cars were there's.


    .



    Thank you for sharing.

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    Registered User PrairieRose's Avatar
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    I see abuse of the system here too. We have immigrants who have landed good jobs in our area and then they and their wives get 'divorced' after they get here (and have applied for or gotten around the green card/citizenship challenge) so she and the kids qualify for food stamps and all the other 'programs' and still live with their dh's who have the great paying job, driving the newest, fanciest cars in town.

    I know we need some form of 'reform' but in my mind it should come in the way of insurance reform. It seems to me to be the insurance companies who are raping the consumers, making it so that so many can't carry it, qualify for it, afford it. I understand the income/cost ratios but even when you have insurance sometimes you can't get them to pay for 'covered or allowable' expenses. It's just highway robbery. Anyway, I feel for ya Moor, I hear where you're coming from.

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    Registered User Momto2Boyz's Avatar
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    I'm on the other side of the fence experience-wise. I grew up with both parents working stable jobs and enough money to put food on the table and keep the household going. However, as an adult, DH lost his job and we had no insurance and we did qualify and take the state health insurance program for a while until we could get back on our feet. We were making enough money to (literally) get by, if we lived the extreme frugal way, but we had enough to shop at Aldi's and put food on the table each week. May have been ramen or PB & J, but we had food.

    Becuase we took the assistance, we were automatically enrolled in food stamps, which in my opinion we didn't need. It took me forever to get us out of the food stamp program. They were shocked that I was turning it down, I guess.

    Anyhoo, I do think we need some systems for assistance in place. However, I do think the systems in place don't work for the betterment of families and communitites. We were lucky to have the assistance when we desperately needed it, but we are hard workers and as soon as we pulled ourselves back up, we got off of it. Unfortunately, I know there are alot of people out there who believe they are entitled to it, and that once they are on it, see no need to get a better job or better life, becuase they are getting "free money".

    Around here, the big thing is having more children to qualify for more assistance. I actually had a friend who had her fifth child becuase she needed the boost in her assistance. Once the child was born, she received more food stamps, more WIC and more housing assistance...as well as free daycare, if she chose to work. It's unfortunate, but the abuse is out there and I'm sure it's everywhere!

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    Registered User suki's Avatar
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    Yes, there are abusers of the system... any system.

    Yes, "the system" is broken.

    No, I don't think in the discussion of affordable healthcare/universal coverage anyone is expecting "the gov't to take care of them". All that is expected is for healthcare to be AFFORDABLE and AVAILABLE to all. I've no idea where this forwarding of the idea that universal healthcare coverage means relying on the gov't to take care of folks originated, but it's wrong and meant to throw the entire discussion off-track.

    Do we not believe that in this great nation of ours we can create a solution that means everyone has access to affordable healthcare?

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    Registered User PrairieRose's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by suki View Post
    Do we not believe that in this great nation of ours we can create a solution that means everyone has access to affordable healthcare?
    Oh I believe we can create a solution of sorts but it's never gonna be completely affordable to everyone. I think that's the sad reality of it. I also believe we can make huge improvements and even if we don't attain the perfect state of 'affordable healthcare for everyone' we can make it much better all the way around.

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    Registered User JanieD's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PrairieRose View Post
    Oh I believe we can create a solution of sorts but it's never gonna be completely affordable to everyone. I think that's the sad reality of it. I also believe we can make huge improvements and even if we don't attain the perfect state of 'affordable healthcare for everyone' we can make it much better all the way around.
    Anyone know how to get the ball rolling on this? Many have said the government shouldn't be involved (in other healthcare/insurance threads) due to the current issues aka broken social security, medicare, medicaid & other type programs. I can't see the health insurance companies making changes that would cut into profits or help anyone but themselves. Honestly, something has to change soon or not only will many be underinsured, but will have no health insurance at all.


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    Registered User Holly's Avatar
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    I have no coverage , so its a simple solution.
    ( when I'm sick I don't go to the Dr.)
    If I have a cold I drink fluids and take aspirin, When I
    cracked my ribs I kept going just a little slower.
    I think people run to Dr's for every sniffle because they have medicaid is plain stupid.
    I have arthritis but I have to live with it..

    I used to have medicaid and I just refused to use it unless
    I was having problems with my heart.
    I can't get health insurance because of my heart problems.

    With that being said I have no clue how the system can be fixed ,but as long as the insurance companies and the pharmaceutical companies are lobbying all the politicians
    there never will be a fixed system.
    JMHO
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    Rude and Vile Master Greebo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JanieD View Post
    Anyone know how to get the ball rolling on this? Many have said the government shouldn't be involved (in other healthcare/insurance threads) due to the current issues aka broken social security, medicare, medicaid & other type programs. I can't see the health insurance companies making changes that would cut into profits or help anyone but themselves. Honestly, something has to change soon or not only will many be underinsured, but will have no health insurance at all.
    Health insurance companies have to compete for business just like anyone else. Competition is what keeps prices low. A single supplier means a single source.

    I happen to work for, at present, one of the middle man companies in prescription drug benefits. I can assure you that there are smaller fish out there in the pond coming up every year that are more than willing to cut some costs to be competitive to get new business, and that means better rates for the insureds.
    If you could kick in the pants the person responsible for your problems, you wouldn't be able to sit for a month.

    Did you know that a 4 year student paying $20,000/year who finances their education graduates with over $103,000 in debt to start? But a student who works and pays cash and takes 6 years to graduate ends with $6,300 in their pocket! So much for "getting a head start by financing!"


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    Registered User nodmicks's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Moor View Post
    there seems to be a lot of people telling us that we need a universal healthcare system, a system to feed the poor, to help the needy and all other sorts of things. well, i have a few things to say. it may offend some, but i am about tired of hearing everyone spout off at the mouth when they have not really enjoyed our national programs to begin with!

    let me begin with a little bit of background:
    my dad died when i was five. i was the youngest. there were still two boys living at home, 15 and 9. so because of our national SS, we got 4 checks a month. one for each one of us kids and my mom got a widow's benefit. but that is all that we got. there was no medicaid program back then. we are talking the 70's. and those 4 checks were not enough to get a place to live, buy food, get my mom back and forth to work, get us clothes, the needed things like toilet paper, toothpaste, those sort of things. but yet we made too much money to get food stamps! we moved in with my grandparents, who lived in a 2 bedroom house. my grandfather was disabled, but with all of the checks combined, we were still living off of wish sandwiches (bread, mayo, lettuce, tomatoe, jammed together, wishing i had some meat). still could not get help for food, we made too much money. but we could not afford to move, because, once a month paycheck, too much month. because we were paying for all healthcare, dental, food, housing, utilities, and such.
    yet, almost every month when we went to the grocery, there would be people with several carts paying for them in food stamps.
    give a little example, one woman three carts. one full of alcohol, one full of canned foods and such and the last one full of STEAKS!!!!!
    we were in line behind her. she paid for the first two with food stamps, the last one, she paid for with cash, from a roll about as big around as my arm. tell me that is not an abuse of the system, when here i am standing in line behind her, and i can barely afford to buy what i am, because i have to budget for everything to make sure my money last's until the end of the month. and it really burns my britches when i hear her tell her friend, if there are any food stamps left over you can buy them. this was back when food stamps were really food stamps!

    another example, when medicaid is first implanted on our society, we were still in the same boat, but now my mom is disabled. i watched her almost die before we could get help to her. sitting in the waiting room of the er, but because of her symptoms, she was not treated right away. it was only when she collasped *SP* that they rushed her back. they were too busy taking care of all of the medicaid people who were using the er as a dr's office to give two figs about a woman who was paying cash!

    so that is what i have witnessed out of our government run programs. i could give you numerous stories of all the abuses i have seen, been denied because of certain things, told by the workers who were suppossed to be helping us, that if our skin was a different color, then we would be able to get help. *NOT MY WORDS,THE SOCIAL WORKERS WORDS!!!!!*

    so yeah, if one more person tells me that i HAVE to help, i am going to scream. i am sorry, people just need to take care of themselves. i know that there are some who really need that help. they should get it. but not the ones that believe our government owes them everything. that is what is wrong with today's society anyway, we feel that the government owes us. sorry, but we owe ourselves!~
    Excellent post!

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    Registered User The Muse's Avatar
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    people just need to take care of themselves. i know that there are some who really need that help. they should get it.
    I completely agree! When I was 7, my parents divorced and decided they had better things to do than take care of their children. I grew up a ward of the state and knew that I wanted a better life than what I had.

    I worked my butt off in high school and managed to get a merit scholarship to a state university. I worked multiple jobs to support myself while I was in school. I graduated Magna Cum Laude and have built a successful career.

    I didn't have any advantages early in life, but I turned it around. It was scary and difficult, but I knew that I alone had to make a life for myself. I never thought I was owed anything by anyone, except for my parents, but that's another story.

    Having been through the struggle myself, alone, I resent having to hand over a portion of my hard earned salary to support others who feel a sense of entitlement without obligation. Unless you're physically or mentally impaired, help should be a temporary bridge while you regroup and get things in order.

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    Registered User Moor's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by suki View Post
    Yes, there are abusers of the system... any system.

    Yes, "the system" is broken.

    No, I don't think in the discussion of affordable healthcare/universal coverage anyone is expecting "the gov't to take care of them". All that is expected is for healthcare to be AFFORDABLE and AVAILABLE to all. I've no idea where this forwarding of the idea that universal healthcare coverage means relying on the gov't to take care of folks originated, but it's wrong and meant to throw the entire discussion off-track.

    Do we not believe that in this great nation of ours we can create a solution that means everyone has access to affordable healthcare?
    you totally missed the WHOLE point of my post. right at the moment, the way that i feel, is that if you want affordable healthcare, get a job. i know that there are people who are working and taking care of themselves who can't afford it, that is not who i am talking about.
    let me tell you something, even mcdonald's offers healthcare. MOST employers do. i know that there are some who don't, and to those that don't shame on them, as they could buy into a program and get it.
    there is health care out there. there are just some people who are refuse to give up driving the best cars, giving up cable, eating out, buying the newest clothes, or even getting a job to get said healthcare.
    i work for a temp agency and they offer healthcare.
    so my big issue with government healthcare is, it's going to raise my already high taxes to pay for a system that is going to benefit those who refuse to do what is necessary for their own, and that's just not right! why should i have to pay more taxes to take care of someone else?


    I've no idea where this forwarding of the idea that universal healthcare coverage means relying on the gov't to take care of folks originated, but it's wrong and meant to throw the entire discussion off-track.
    but you really don't get it!!!!! we will be taking care of everyone. i don't want to pay for another failed government program. and that is what is going to happen. it is not wrong to KNOW that i will be expected to pay higher taxes. it is not wrong to KNOW that there will be people who will abuse the system. it is not wrong to KNOW that people will not get the healthcare that they need, even though the program is in place. you are wrong in believing that the government will fix it. you are throwing my discussion off track!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Momto2Boyz View Post
    I'm on the other side of the fence experience-wise. I grew up with both parents working stable jobs and enough money to put food on the table and keep the household going. However, as an adult, DH lost his job and we had no insurance and we did qualify and take the state health insurance program for a while until we could get back on our feet. We were making enough money to (literally) get by, if we lived the extreme frugal way, but we had enough to shop at Aldi's and put food on the table each week. May have been ramen or PB & J, but we had food.

    Becuase we took the assistance, we were automatically enrolled in food stamps, which in my opinion we didn't need. It took me forever to get us out of the food stamp program. They were shocked that I was turning it down, I guess.

    Anyhoo, I do think we need some systems for assistance in place. However, I do think the systems in place don't work for the betterment of families and communitites. We were lucky to have the assistance when we desperately needed it, but we are hard workers and as soon as we pulled ourselves back up, we got off of it. Unfortunately, I know there are alot of people out there who believe they are entitled to it, and that once they are on it, see no need to get a better job or better life, becuase they are getting "free money".

    Around here, the big thing is having more children to qualify for more assistance. I actually had a friend who had her fifth child becuase she needed the boost in her assistance. Once the child was born, she received more food stamps, more WIC and more housing assistance...as well as free daycare, if she chose to work. It's unfortunate, but the abuse is out there and I'm sure it's everywhere!
    Thanks for sharing your experience.

    I thought the welfare "reform" passed back in the 90's put a life-time limit of 5 years for most welfare recipients. Am I mistaken on that? Anybody know for sure?

    Back when Reagan was talking about Cadillac driving welfare queens, a local reporter investigated the "average" welfare recipeint. The "average" in my area was a white female 20 to 25 years old with two children under the age of 5. They were on welfare less than 2 years. Most had previous employment history. The most common reason sighted for applying for assistance was that they couldn't afford day care.

    Of course there are people who abuse any system (even our local food pantries get a few people who don't really need the help). But I bet most are more like you -- honest, hard working, and just needing a boost.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Moor View Post
    i work for a temp agency and they offer healthcare.
    so my big issue with government healthcare is, it's going to raise my already high taxes to pay for a system that is going to benefit those who refuse to do what is necessary for their own, and that's just not right! why should i have to pay more taxes to take care of someone else?
    I sympathize with you about taxes. How much do you pay for health insurance now? Do you think your taxes would go up more than that amount?

    Anyway -- there are many ways to provide/reform our health care system without creating some bloated poorly run socialized government medical program.

    You sound so frustrated. I hope things get easier for you.

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    Super Moderator Darlene's Avatar
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    Wasn't room or icon to thank you for your first post Moor but I do.

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