Neighbors looking for advice...

[mombottoo]

Our neighbors are a really nice couple, 3 kids 12-17. They have had major issues and have existed on hopes and pipe dreams for as long as I have known them (about 10 years).

Things have been coming to a head for a long time and I think they are on a downward spiral. The wife is sinking into depression due to recent and not so recent events and after days of seeing & hearing her hubby I called her last night and told her I was picking her up to take her for icecream...didn't give her the option of declining and she jumped at the chance. I gave her an opening (in case she wanted to vent/talk) which she took...my heart hurts for her and her family.

IMHO her hubby much as I may like him would be a dead man if he were married to me...well either dead or single take your pick. How can I help my friend without stepping over the line? I know what I want to tell her, but they've been married over 20 years and that's a lot of water under the bridge. Her hubby is hard headed and has an extreme case of tunnel vision...he is so bitter and angry at where they are that he can't see that he is a major part of their problems. He hasn't worked to speak of in over 6+ years, but it's her fault that they don't have any money because she was supposed to be able to get a teaching job after earning her degree (jobs for teachers are slim pickings around here).

When it became apparent the teaching wasn't going to pan out, they decided to open their own business without having the funds necessary to carry the business or to even live. Needless to say the business failed after 9 months and they had to close down within the past couple of weeks (which is why she was hiding under her covers). Now he seems to think that he should leave and live a nomadic life and that she should be willing to stay here, take care of the kids and life is going to be honky dorey.

There was a heck of a discussion going on here last night after we got back to my house. I pointed out that two people making minimum wage would be making $14.30 an hour after he started slamming people who work at Wesco or fast food places (their kids don't need a sitter)...which is better than what they have now which is 0. However, he seems to think he is worth no less than $12 an hour by himself (okay...insert sarcasm here)...

What can I tell my friend to at least give her hope?

[Greebo]

Are you sure you wouldn't be giving her false hope?

They need counseling. They're on a course for disaster. If he's in denial of reality, what are you going to give her hope to do - continue to be an enabler?

It sounds very much to me, in the 3 minutes I read this, that what you're getting into is an abuser/enabler relationship. Not abuse in terms of physical or emotional or sexual - just ... I'm missing the right word - but he's in denial of reality, and she's allowing him to live without the consequences of his actions - enabling his self-fantasy.

Aside from the book Boundaries, I'm not sure what else you can recommend, aside counseling and possibly a separation so he can figure out for himself what being a grown up means...

Sorry to be so harsh but... it really sounds to me like you want to help her continue to maintain illusions about reality, and that's something I can't do.

Edit to add: If this joker thinks he's so blameless, she might really BE better off w/o him. He's not exactly doing wonders for their financial future here...

[perSue]

this is a difficult situation.
i would be very forthright and open with my friend.
take her out for another "icecream" or whatever... tell her you've really been thinking about her (and her kids) health/safety.
she needs to get a better job... heck, even one or two of the kids could get part time jobs to help with paying for stuff (lots of places hire high school age kids!).
she also needs to understand that having her OWN life is as important as her hubby wanting one of his own too.

just offer support... and help out what you can.
she'll come to you for what she needs - eventually.

if the hubby is abusive, report it. i dont know the details (and dont need/want to). if he's got a serious problem, recommend support groups... and perhaps a good lawyer too. (depending on the case.)

otherwise, just TELL her, so she knows, someone is there for her. she probably feels alone and stuck and perhaps even fully responsible for the family's situation.
we all know that's not true... everyone makes choices, not "one".

i wish you good luck and patience.

[ladykemma2]

hubby needs to get a J-O-B ?

[mombottoo]

Are you sure you wouldn't be giving her false hope?

They need counseling. They're on a course for disaster. If he's in denial of reality, what are you going to give her hope to do - continue to be an enabler?

Sorry to be so harsh but... it really sounds to me like you want to help her continue to maintain illusions about reality, and that's something I can't do.

Edit to add: If this joker thinks he's so blameless, she might really BE better off w/o him. He's not exactly doing wonders for their financial future here...

I know they are on a course set for disaster and yes she probably would be better off without him JMHO, but like I said they have been married a very long time. By "hope" I meant "what can I say to let her know there is always light at the end of the tunnel if you are willing to do what is necessary to get to that light"...do you get what I mean? Nothing is ever without hope, sometimes you just have to look a little harder...I have learned this from dealing with things after our son's accident. If you believe that things are hopeless what's the point of trying to change them? Every one needs hope, more so when things are really falling apart.

Any how, you are definitely wrong about me wanting to help her maintain illusions...I have no clue where you got that from. I want her to realize that she is a worthwhile human being and that as humans we sometimes make poor decisions when it comes to career choices etc., but that you have to buck up and do what needs to be done in order to keep yourself from drowning either financially or emotionally.

[stinkbug]

Your neighbor and my oldest dd sound like the same person! What we have determined is her dh is her *drug of choice* and she chooses to stay with him no matter the circumstances or what it does to their children/family. She whines and complains and *leaves him* but always goes back within a few days because "he's really trying this time, he promises"
Men like this make me

[Greebo]

I know they are on a course set for disaster and yes she probably would be better off without him JMHO, but like I said they have been married a very long time. By "hope" I meant "what can I say to let her know there is always light at the end of the tunnel if you are willing to do what is necessary to get to that light"...do you get what I mean? Nothing is ever without hope, sometimes you just have to look a little harder...I have learned this from dealing with things after our son's accident. If you believe that things are hopeless what's the point of trying to change them? Every one needs hope, more so when things are really falling apart.

[
Ah, that clarifies things - I was definitely misunderstanding what kind of hope you meant.

[prftstrngr]

You mentioned he wanted to leave and live a nomadic life....maybe she should tell him to go ahead but give him the choice...you go...dont come back and Im not looking after you only myself and kids. Either that...or you stay and help. Its not an easy situation....I guess I would suggest counselling and if he wont go she should go herself anyways. If teachers jobs are scarce can she get her foot in the door so to speak by doing substitute teaching like if someone is sick? I dont know....Im just throwing suggestions out there! I hope she is ok and it all works out. God Bless you for wanting to help her!

[cab54]

I agree with those who say if he wants to 'leave and be a nomad'----he should go. Bye. Don't hurry home.

She could get a job doing anything at all right now, till a teaching job opens up, and the kids can help by getting jobs. They'll all be better off in a non-toxic environment.

I don't know if I'd tell her that, but I would ask her 'leading questions' till she comes to that conclusion herself.

[Ceashels]

Perhaps you need to have a brain storming event with her over a cup of tea. "What needs to happen to make things work for YOU, the KIDS and eventually the Idiot? Both parties need to get jobs. If he thinks he is worth $12/hr and not less then why don't employers see that? He has to start somewhere and if it is only minimum wage then that will at least help keep food on the table and a roof over their heads. He has responsibilities as a married man who has children. She does too.

If her kids don't need day care, can she tutor or clean houses (little to no upfront costs) Can he do the same? (he can make more than $12/hr cleaning if he has the gonads to do it.) But unfortunately, from what it sounds like is he is a eunuch.

She needs to lay out a plan if he isn't going to be of assistance in the helping of making a plan. He needs a good boot to the head and some serious counseling.

Offer her support, friendship, kindness, an ear and a shoulder. Help her come up with ideas that will educate her without being overbearing. She will get thru this. It might not be the way she would like but she will make it.

[Jskell911]

Unfortunately from my past experience, a woman like this needs to be able to determine for herself that the current situation is one she needs to be rid of. You are doing the best thing you can do: Being a friend, being honest, and just being there. THAT is hope! You are, by doing what you are doing asserting to her that she is worthwhile.

Hopefully, through gentle guidance, she may see in the end that he needs the boot. But from all I have lived through and all I have seen, SHE has to WANT to give him that boot.

Until then she is just enabling the situation. I know that sounds harsh, but it's true. I did the same thing with my first husband, and we had a 14 year history.

[mombottoo]

Thanks everyone! Many of your suggestions are things I have already thought of...which means they must be good ideas right? !

Greebo...I knew you misunderstood what I was saying because I have read most of your other posts ...so I know you are a fairly well rounded man...yes, that's a compliment .

I happened to be on a local job site today and came across an opening that would be perfect for her since she loves the theater. I called and told her what I happened upon and I actually heard "hope" in her voice for the first time in a long time. She is in the process of tweaking her resume' and plans on applying pronto.

Thanks again!!!!

[Frugal Nurse]

Persue... You said it right here..

By "hope" I meant "what can I say to let her know there is always light at the end of the tunnel if you are willing to do what is necessary to get to that light

That is all she needs to know. As well as having your friendship.
Only offer advice if it is asked for.
If you get too involved in her relationship - you run the risk of being ousted should she decide to work things out (if that wasn't your avenue you suggested - I am only giving an example here)

But... just what you said - is great comforting advice. (and a cup of tea as well.)

[dwallyfam]

He needs to get a JOB or hit the road. She needs to think about herself and the kids and move on.