Looking for suggestions....

**cmdarlin** · 08-19-2008, 06:28 PM

to help motivate one of the students in our culinary class.

There are four of us, full time students in class. The mornings, from 8:25am to 10:50am, we spend in the classroom. The afternoons, 12:15pm to 2:40pm, we spend back in the kitchen cleaning, etc. to get it ready for when we start cooking.

Two of the 'adults' are young girls who are barely 18 (just graduated in May 2008) and we're having a hard time getting them to do any work. They stand around complaining their tired, or that they think its not fair they can't work on their homework (we have alot) and have to help clean. The past few days, I've been told to seperate them as they tend to just stand around and talk.

Today one of the girls was assigned to wrapping silverware for an upcoming event. We spent 15 minutes showing her how to fold the napking around it and tie it with a ribbon bow. She got 1 package of 25 napkins done in two hours! The teacher wasn't happy.

She's a sweet girl but has been 'babied' all her life. She seems to be fairly smart but extremely slow in doing anything. She even didn't know how to pack a lunch for herself. We've been told that she is subject to having seizures but so far she's been ok in that department.

The teacher has mentioned if we can't get her motivated, she may have to drop her from the class. I hate to see that happen so any ideas on ways I can help her would be greatly appreciated.

thank you!

Debbie

**alarosalpn** · 08-19-2008, 06:36 PM

Have you tried talking with her away from the group and explaining that cleaning is part of the class? When you graduate and get into the real world, you will be cleaning and you need to know how to do it properly.... Can you tell her that it is part of her grade?

**cmdarlin** · 08-19-2008, 06:41 PM

Originally Posted by alarosalpn

Have you tried talking with her away from the group and explaining that cleaning is part of the class? When you graduate and get into the real world, you will be cleaning and you need to know how to do it properly.... Can you tell her that it is part of her grade?

She's been told that repeatedly by the teacher. The other day she was responsible for taking bowls off two shelves and wiping it down and restacking the bowls on it. Took her all afternoon.

Debbie

**madhen** · 08-19-2008, 06:54 PM

Sounds like the "lead a horse to water" syndrome. I guess I'm wondering, if they've been told what is expected of them, and they don't want to do it, why they shouldn't be dropped from the class. Sounds like those of you remaining might enjoy it more without them around!

I was in a class of approximately 28 students, and we had one young girl similar to that, who BARELY passed the written tests and put a half-hearted effort into the rest of it. In her case, the written tests were actually very difficult for her, and it was a case of her getting scared and tightening up, forgetting it all out of stress, rather than being too lazy to study. A group of us got together and spent time with her almost daily, going over the notes and such, and her grades came up - not A's, but at least high C's. If you really think these girls are worth it, maybe spend some time outside of class working with them on the things that they don't do well, teaching them how to streamline and do things efficiently. If they aren't willing to do that, perhaps they aren't cut out to be in that line of work?

**prftstrngr** · 08-19-2008, 09:21 PM

If she has always been babied is it going to be a good thing to continue that? She needs to realise she HAS to work as hard as everyone else. Or is that just the speed she works? Is one of them holding the other one back? Hard when they are young and never had any responsibility....but they must have gotten in to the course somehow....so they should have some idea what needs to be done!! Good luck!!

**ChristopherJ** · 08-22-2008, 11:33 PM

Wow, Part 1 of Dale Carnegie's book "How to Win Friends and Influence People" would totally help out in this situation. She needs motivation...she needs to feel like what she's doing makes a difference or matters. She obviously doesn't care because she doesn't see any value in what she's being told to do. There's no incentive for her. Apparently getting a passing grade simply isn't something she's interested in, sounds like she's only there because someone told her she has to do it or be there.

Only way to get here to cooperate is to get her to want to do it.
"If there is any one secret to success, it lies in the ability to get the other person's point of view and see things from that person's angle as well as from your own." -Henry Ford
Don't criticize her or come down on her negatively. Give honest and sincere appreciation for things that she does even if they're small at first, and find a way to create a desire in her to want to succeed. Basic three principles in handling people and influencing them into cooperation.

**Lady_V** · 08-22-2008, 11:44 PM

I think it's wonderful that you want to help this girl... but with that being said, why has the burdeon of keeping her in class fallen on your shoulders?

I was surprised to see "The teacher has mentioned if we can't get her motivated, she may have to drop her from the class."

Again, it isn't on you to keep her motivated. No one is forcing her to stay and I think it's unfair to put the added pressure on others. You are not in a supervisory role.

**ladykemma2** · 08-23-2008, 06:19 AM

Originally Posted by cmdarlin

to help motivate one of the students in our culinary class.

There are four of us, full time students in class. The mornings, from 8:25am to 10:50am, we spend in the classroom. The afternoons, 12:15pm to 2:40pm, we spend back in the kitchen cleaning, etc. to get it ready for when we start cooking.

Two of the 'adults' are young girls who are barely 18 (just graduated in May 2008) and we're having a hard time getting them to do any work. They stand around complaining their tired, or that they think its not fair they can't work on their homework (we have alot) and have to help clean. The past few days, I've been told to seperate them as they tend to just stand around and talk.

Today one of the girls was assigned to wrapping silverware for an upcoming event. We spent 15 minutes showing her how to fold the napking around it and tie it with a ribbon bow. She got 1 package of 25 napkins done in two hours! The teacher wasn't happy.

She's a sweet girl but has been 'babied' all her life. She seems to be fairly smart but extremely slow in doing anything. She even didn't know how to pack a lunch for herself. We've been told that she is subject to having seizures but so far she's been ok in that department.

The teacher has mentioned if we can't get her motivated, she may have to drop her from the class. I hate to see that happen so any ideas on ways I can help her would be greatly appreciated.

thank you!

Debbie

seems like this is the teacher's problem, and not yours. i would tell the teacher that i was becoming "concerned" that i am doing more than my share of the work, and that the girls are not functioning. this behavior will not be tolerated in a "hop to it" professional kitchen.

passive aggression comes to mind. "i don't want to be here so I'll do it badly or slowly."

if i were the teacher i would nip this in the bud.

edited to add: tell them the sooner they get the chores done, the sooner they can get to the homewrok. make it a game. competitive?

**Greebo** · 08-23-2008, 06:33 AM

I agree. This is a problem between the teacher, the student, and whoever is paying her tuition. You can tell her your opinion, you can tell her the facts, "If you don't do the dirty work you won't keep the jobs", but in the end, she is not your problem, nor your responsibility. She has to take responsibility for herself, and you have to limit your taking of responsibility to yourself.

If she's been babied all her life, you, some crazy ***** from her class (this is what will be in HER mind), aren't gonna change her attitude. Someone else (parents) is currently undoing any possible good you might achieve.

**ladykemma2** · 08-23-2008, 06:42 AM

me again. i teach 17-18 year olds high school chemistry. sometimes a well placed call to the parents is what is needed. they will either give a "swift kick" or the parents will not know what to do either.

**rachelj** · 08-23-2008, 06:50 AM

I teach part time for some colleges like forHisglory. The one school I taught at this past spring the students drove me crazy. They had trouble with the concept that we had tests covering 4 chapters at a time. A good majority of them failed the first test. So I allowed them to correct their wrong answers for partial credit. You see, this was my class teaching for this community college and I was apprehensive that I was "too tough".

They complained to me wanting me to have a test each week, wanting a study guide, wanting help on their paper, wanting a HUGE curve in their grade. I started getting very frustrated with about 90% of these students.

They wanted the grade without having to work for it. (most of these students want to transfer to a 4 yr school and will be kicked in their little behind when they only have a midterm and final to make up their grades) I am sad to say that it was mostly my younger students that behaved this way. My "older" students worked hard.

I am not teaching for this college again - I worked harder for those grades than they did.

Don't you work harder for their grade than those 2 girls are willing to work. You will not do them any favors "helping them". If working in a "real" restaurant kitchen is anything like the TV show "Hell's Kitchen" then they will have a lot to learn

They will have to fail on their own. Obviously their parents never let them fall on and scrape their knees.

I think that for many of this generation a work ethic is becoming a thing of the past.

**ladykemma2** · 08-23-2008, 07:06 AM

Originally Posted by rachelj

I teach part time for some colleges like forHisglory. The one school I taught at this past spring the students drove me crazy. They had trouble with the concept that we had tests covering 4 chapters at a time. A good majority of them failed the first test. So I allowed them to correct their wrong answers for partial credit. You see, this was my class teaching for this community college and I was apprehensive that I was "too tough".

They complained to me wanting me to have a test each week, wanting a study guide, wanting help on their paper, wanting a HUGE curve in their grade. I started getting very frustrated with about 90% of these students.

They wanted the grade without having to work for it. (most of these students want to transfer to a 4 yr school and will be kicked in their little behind when they only have a midterm and final to make up their grades) I am sad to say that it was mostly my younger students that behaved this way. My "older" students worked hard.

I am not teaching for this college again - I worked harder for those grades than they did.

Don't you work harder for their grade than those 2 girls are willing to work. You will not do them any favors "helping them". If working in a "real" restaurant kitchen is anything like the TV show "Hell's Kitchen" then they will have a lot to learn

They will have to fail on their own. Obviously their parents never let them fall on and scrape their knees.

I think that for many of this generation a work ethic is becoming a thing of the past.

i teach 17 - 18 year olds. i don't give them study guides. it's so "special ed". i tell them that they are about to enter the real world, and they don't get "Do-overs". I don't allow re-tests or extra make up work either.

were the kids snowing you?

**cmdarlin** · 08-23-2008, 07:07 AM

Thank you for the advice. I really appreciate it. I only posted the question because in a way I am in charge of getting the all day students of getting their work done in the afternoon while the teacher teaches the afternoon students. I'm her work/study student.

We had our first test on Thursday and it was a total flop for this poor girl. The Wednesday before we got to sit in for the test review during the afternoon class and she was called three times for answers and she just sat there and didn't make an attempt. To start things out, she didn't even pull out the chapter to go over, she was doing other homework. There honestly wasn't any excuse to not be able to answer when your allowed to have the papers in front of you. She failed the test with a 17%. The teacher has sent her to the Assistant Director of the school to talk to her. Hopefully he can get thru to her. She did do better in the kitchen doing clean up over the past few days, though it took her 5 hours to clean 8 stove racks. She worked and didn't wander around.

Yesterday was hard for everyone. Our teacher didn't show up. I had to go to the office and talk to the school Director and they tried calling her for three hours. They finally got ahold of her husband who went home and found her laying on the floor breathing but unresponsive. She was flown to St. Louis for emergency surgery as she had a brain aneurysm. I pray she comes thru it ok. My Dad suffered one two years ago and he was very lucky but then he didn't lay there for hours before someone found him. I also pray the substitute won't be too big of an adjustment. We were all getting use to our regular teacher.

EDIT: We have four other adult students besides myself in the class. I talked to last years Work/Study student (she does the same Farmer's Market as I do) and she said out of her group of adults, she was the only one who stuck it out. I think being older, we want it more therefore we pay attention. I imagine once we get in the kitchen, it will make or break them. Just a shame that their parent's paid their tuition when they won't put forth the necessary effort.

Thanks again for your help.

Debbie

**ladykemma2** · 08-23-2008, 07:28 AM

Originally Posted by cmdarlin

EDIT: We have four other adult students besides myself in the class. I talked to last years Work/Study student (she does the same Farmer's Market as I do) and she said out of her group of adults, she was the only one who stuck it out. I think being older, we want it more therefore we pay attention. I imagine once we get in the kitchen, it will make or break them. Just a shame that their parent's paid their tuition when they won't put forth the necessary effort.

Thanks again for your help.

Debbie

i hear that culinary school is brutal. you have to be able to multi-task, which a lot of people can't do... (edited to add: you cook and clean and feed the staff all day long, physical labor, then you have to go home, study, and write a paper on how to clean a fish, cut up a cow, food safety, or gardemanger...)

if she is special ed, with the seizures and all. what is "reasonable accommodation"?

ok, so YOU are the boss. hmm......(LK goes off to ponder)

edited to add: it seems this course IS the "weed-out course". like at my university-- chemistry was the "weed - out" course. let nature take its course?

**rachelj** · 08-23-2008, 07:40 AM

Originally Posted by ladykemma2

i teach 17 - 18 year olds. i don't give them study guides. it's so "special ed". i tell them that they are about to enter the real world, and they don't get "Do-overs". I don't allow re-tests or extra make up work either.

were the kids snowing you?

No, I was told by one of dh's employees who attends there that one class he NEVER read anything. The "teacher" would lecture for most of class (met once a week) and then test over what he just taught on.

He said that most classes were similar. So, I was "hard core" compared to most of the other "profs". I even saw one prof EVERY WEEK tutoring the SAME student at noon while he ate lunch! These students want high school again only getting an Associates.

Dh's employee is really smart and transferred to the community college from a 4 yr college when he realized the 4 yr school couldn't give him the degree he wanted. So he is just getting credits to transfer. Which is smart but man I wouldn't recommend people to go to this campus if none of the profs expect college level work.

They didn't ask me back to teach again...I think "I" brought down the GPA too much!!