Warning VERY long - do I expect too much?

[katybug]

So creating a new tradition fills the void..

That was an excellent suggestion!

[Dutchie]

Thanks everyone for your thoughts and advice.
I wasn't able to be on the forum till now so I have been reading all of your answers in one sitting.

A few things are on my mind about the whole situation with our son and I feel that I need to explain some more and answer some questions.

Yes, I am having trouble getting used to the change and I know that more change will come with the other kids at some point. With the first it is always the most difficult I think.

This son only left home a couple of years ago.

I do like his choice - his girlfriend is a nice girl.
She too was very late in leaving home and is 2 years older than my son.
When she left home it was only a change of address for her - she works for her father and mother and sees them every day for most of the day - even in the weekend.
Don't get me wrong - I am not jealous. I just don't think it is a healthy relationship.
On saying that I do not know how things will be with my daughter because you are all correct - it is different with a daughter.

The trouble that I have with them not being here on Dec. 24th is complicated but I do understand that I have to let them/him go.

This Christmas Eve would be the only occasion that we are all together at all (with the exception of my 50th birthday and Christmas Eve last year) since he met her 2 years ago.

Even on our 30th wedding anniversary last year (party/dinner in a restaurant with friends/family etc.), they weren't there because she had already made dinner arrangements with her parents - as they do every Sunday - so they both went there. This was a very important day for us and it still hurts.

Believe me I am very grateful that he has been welcomed into her family because I know that this can be very different.

The trip to Africa is an extra from her parents for Christmas and is just a vacation for them like the many other exotic vacations they have been given this year.
I know that this would be a trip of a lifetime for most people but they will be going to another part of Africa in March with their entire family for a vacation and a safari to celebrate the wedding of her brother.
I am not jealous of the fact that her parents can give them so much. I am delighted for them that they don't have to, or ever will have to, struggle with money. We would NEVER EVER even try to compete with her parents - this is not how/who we are.
We are comfortable and have given our kids I believe everything that they needed and a few wants too but never in excess.

Her family is so completely different to ours.
We are a LOT of people and we laugh and joke and tease each other a lot of the time. I feel that she isn't used to this.

In the last 2 years they have found a reason to avoid most of the celebrations connected to our house - birthdays of any of us (there was always an excuse), Easter, mother's day/father's day (celebrated by both of them at her parents because that is what she always did before she met our son) plus any other organized things like BBQ's etc. and to be quite honest, when I heard about this coming Christmas Eve, it was the straw that broke the camel's back for me because that is the only thing that was left over. BTW, it is not only us, it is our entire side of the family, grandparents, aunts, uncles, etc.They don't see them anymore either.

The rest of the kids also feel that they are losing their brother and don't have any patience with him.
I try to be diplomatic about it all but they say exactly what they think.

One thing that happened on Sat. is that when he told a couple of siblings that he wouldn't be there on Christmas Eve, they said in chorus - well that saves us some money - not there - no gifts.
He didn't know what to say.
I think that they are joking but I can't be sure, we haven't talked about it further yet.
One of the other boys, when he heard that his older brother wouldn't be there on Dec. 24th, he just shook his head and walked away.

I just have the feeling that they are pulling away from our entire family completely.

However (I don't even know if this is on the plus side) on Sat. DH and I had been asked to help clean out their old house before it was put on the market for sale. Dh and I and a couple of siblings were there to help out.
His girlfriend was in the city shopping with her parents.

I got the feeling that we are good enough to help when help is needed but further not at all.

This may all sound like sour grapes and maybe it is but that is how I feel at the moment.
BTW we will be having our celebration on Christmas Eve without them.

Just one more thing I would like to add. Our daughter's 18th birthday is coming up in 2 weeks. They are of course invited. I just hope for our daughter that they turn up. They didn't come to our son's 21st birthday party in June.

[Dutchie]

That was my whole point. He knows how you feel, so you should just drop it, before he feels alienated.

Just want to mention that except for the fact that we spoke to him a few months ago about this subject (mentioned in my first post) and when he called me to tell me about Christmas Eve and I said that I was disappointed, I haven't said anything about it to him. I wouldn't do this because as you said rightly I do not want to alientate him.

I have been discussing it with DH and here on the forum.
I am so grateful that I can write on here and air out my heart and at the same time get extremely valuable advice which I am taking to heart.
Thank you all.

[Denvergirlie]

The only thing you can do is tell your son how much you miss him and wish he would make more time in his life for you and your family.
You can tell him you are really happy that he has someone important in his life, but that you really are hurt that you don't see him as much anymore. Tell him you know that you have to "cut the apron strings", and that he has to live his own life now.
DO NOT bring up specific situations, do not point out your rational, just let him know how much it hurts. Tell him you love him and will always love him, but that you wanted to tell him how you feel. Do not blame him for your feelings, he has no control over your feelings and thus can not accept blame for them.
Have you tried to formally invite them for these family "obligations". Don't just assume that these dates are eteched in his mind and a formal mailed invitation to him and his girl might help highlight the date to them as a couple.

[Dutchie]

Have you tried to formally invite them for these family "obligations". Don't just assume that these dates are eteched in his mind and a formal mailed invitation to him and his girl might help highlight the date to them as a couple.

We invite them informally each time. They never have to assume anything about a date. They are always called/emailed and invited for all gatherings.

[katybug]

Dutchie: I see there is more history and more going on here then you originally said. That changes things!

I'll just simply state our family's issue. We live in town with my parents, not because my parents live here, but because my husband got a scholarship to the University here in town. We have been able to see them TONS the last 4 years. We will probably be moving soon, I would like to stay in Oregon, but we are looking at Washington. We will not be moving to California, we can not afford it and I don't like the climate of Southern Cali, too hot!!!!

My In-laws live in Southern California (we live northern Oregon) and to see them we would have to fly (expensive) or drive (not an option after my accident, I can't drive for more then an hour without freaking out). We can't make it for every birthday/holiday plan and simple. We can only get together really once a year. They don't like it, but they have to live with it, as neither of us can afford it.

Just as a comparison Oregon is 98,381 sq miles and Netherlands is 16,033 Sq miles. California is like 2.5 times bigger then Oregon. Much easier to see people when they are in the *area* kwim?

We have family issues too, but I'm not avoiding them simply to avoid them.

Like I said before, I amend my answer because it seems like there is more going on here then I originally understand.

[pip]

When we first married, both sides were very competative and expected us to choose one side over the other. We started having kids and it just got worse... hard feelings, snide comments, plus with small children it's difficult to have to shuttle them all over the place in one day. I finally decided that we needed to try to split up the holidays evenly... Thanksgiving at my parents, Easter at his mom's. Christmas Eve with my side, Christmas Day with his. Luckily everybody lives in town, so it was easier to work out. The mothers still tried to mess the schedule up, but we stuck to it and it finally was accepted and pretty much people are satisfied. Now.... I have older children and I see them wanting to spend time at their friends/girlfriends homes, and I know holidays are next. I have two boys and one girl and I have the feeling that my boys will choose their girlfriends' families because it seems that happens more often with boys. I know that I will be disappointed and hurt, but I also understand how it feels to be on the receiving end of pressure to spend time with only one side of the family. I know that my boys love me and that they are not really choosing someone over me, but they are growing up and there are new, important people in their lives. There should be room for all. I'm thinking that I will continue to tell them how much I love them and would love to see them over the holidays, but I understand how busy and full their lives are. I think the less pressure that is put on someone, the more they are apt to want to see you! I hope your holidays are still wonderful with the rest of your family, even if your son is not there.

[QM]

You are expecting too much. As adult children grow up they make their own traditions and their own family. As you have made yours... right?

He is going to Africa for the holiday. He is not going to the in-laws. So this is not a pissing contest to see who gets who for the holiday.

I would NOT postpone gift giving date so they could be there, that is selfish on your son's part. go on with your tradition on the 24th...

I completely agree with the above statements.

I, too, would continue on with the 24th tradition and enjoy the family that can make it. I've been married for 9-1/2 years (and am 30 years old) and know that it can extremely difficult to make both sides of the family happy. We do our best to accomodate both sides, but in the end we have to make the final decision and hope our parents can respect our decision. I'm sure it's hard because they're both set in their traditions and ways, but we do what works best for us while trying to be fair. KWIM?

[shadowfax]

When I was about 21 I made a choice to no longer celebrate any holidays. I chose a religion that does not.

This was hard for my mom to accept because the holidays are important to her. While I understand and sympathize with her I also have to follow my own heart and my own conscience.

In time I came to discover that I have and have never really had a relationship with my mom. All that family stuff was holiday stuff. Holidays are too often held to be a you must spend time with and love and give gifts to family. But I find this to become so phony in some cases. It certainly was in mine. it was done simply because that is how it is done. Because we felt obligated to continue a tradition in spite of our personal feelings toward our family members. Something you feel obligated to do because of tradition or it is just what you do becomes resented. It becomes Jaded. What value is in a gift given out of obligation rather then sincerity?

All children grow up. Most get married and have families of their own, make choices that their parents do not like or agree with.

Don't allow something like this to cause you to loose or weaken your relationship with your son. Why do you need a holiday or birthday or special occasion to spend time with family and tell them you care or to give a gift? Just because your son chooses not to join in those things is not necessarily an indicator that he does not wish to be a part of your life.

Be glad he is still a part of your life and let him grow up and be his own person. Make his own mistakes. Stand or fall on his own. And accept those things and support him. Be someone he wants to be around and spend time with... on his own terms.

"That is why a man will leave his father and his mother and he must stick to his wife and they must become one flesh." Gen 2:24

I live over 500 miles from my mom. I rarely talk to her. About once a year at tops. I have not been home in 10 years. I have no plans to return. Sometimes this bothers me.Usually not since my mom is virtually a stranger to me.

Don't push your son away because of a silly tradition.