First real post here concerning water treatment

[Larry G]

Since I have spent to last 20 some odd years operating or supervising municipal water treatment systems, I thought a few folks might have some interest in this document. It provides some guidance to drinking water.

Since I tried to submit the document URL, I see that it is not allowed. Oh well......

[shortstack]

You need to have so many posts before it lets you post a url. Pm me with it and I'll post it for you
Andrea

Since I have spent to last 20 some odd years operating or supervising municipal water treatment systems, I thought a few folks might have some interest in this document. It provides some guidance to drinking water.

Since I tried to submit the document URL, I see that it is not allowed. Oh well......

[Larry G]

You need to have so many posts before it lets you post a url. Pm me with it and I'll post it for you
Andrea

sent the URL. Thanks

[shortstack]

http://www.drum-runners.com/Water%20...0Treatment.pdf

[shortstack]

The URL isn't working.
Andrea

[Contrary Housewife]

Somewhere along the line the url got abbreviated, see those ellipses .... in the middle there?

Anyway, this looks like a link to a commercial site that sells survivalist equipment. Those who want to see it can type out the first part of the url, up to the .com. The link to the water treatment article is on the left side, down a bit.

[Larry G]

Somewhere along the line the url got abbreviated, see those ellipses .... in the middle there?

Anyway, this looks like a link to a commercial site that sells survivalist equipment. Those who want to see it can type out the first part of the url, up to the .com. The link to the water treatment article is on the left side, down a bit.

yes, the parsing of the URL (the dots) makes it unusable. It is in Acrobat pdf file format, I thought it would be more useful this way. Your suggestion just to navigate to the page and pick what you want from the document & links list is probably the best way to go.

I do sell a few things on my website, mostly to pay the expenses of keeping it up, but aside from water storage equipment, bug out bags and a few used ammo cans; there isn't a whole lot to buy! The real purpose of my site is an free information library.

This website started out, a couple of years ago, mostly as an informational site for my family & coworkers for H5N1 bird flu preparedness. Seems that it has grow a bit since then. I'll keep adding good info & links as they become available, at least till the time comes that we begin a bird flu pandemic.

[Denvergirlie]

Larry G - I see you are in Arvada.... what's the likeihood that Denver water would ever stop treating the water with cholramine and go back just normal chorline?

I live in a rental, so can not install a whole house water filter and the shower filters on the market can not take out cholramine... grr...

We do use a Berkey filter for drinking and cooking water, but since we shower in the same cholramine and flouridited (sp?)water we just continue to pollute our skin and lungs with these awful toxic chemicals.

[Larry G]

Larry G - I see you are in Arvada.... what's the likeihood that Denver water would ever stop treating the water with cholramine and go back just normal chorline?

I live in a rental, so can not install a whole house water filter and the shower filters on the market can not take out cholramine... grr...

We do use a Berkey filter for drinking and cooking water, but since we shower in the same cholramine and flouridited (sp?)water we just continue to pollute our skin and lungs with these awful toxic chemicals.

Hi. Denver water will probably never revert to straight chlorine disinfection again to my knowledge. Customer complaints about the chlorine smell and controlling THMs was most likely the driving reasons.

One simple solution for the shower issue would be to buy and install a screw-on type activated carbon filter onto the shower head. This effectively removes the chloramines, THMs and other trace pollutants. These can be bought at Lowe's, Home Depot or even WalMart for a reasonable price.

[Denvergirlie]

Hi. Denver water will probably never revert to straight chlorine disinfection again to my knowledge. Customer complaints about the chlorine smell and controlling THMs was most likely the driving reasons.

One simple solution for the shower issue would be to buy and install a screw-on type activated carbon filter onto the shower head. This effectively removes the chloramines, THMs and other trace pollutants. These can be bought at Lowe's, Home Depot or even WalMart for a reasonable price.

I've never found a shower filter that can take out chloramine, only chorline. I've searched high an wide all over the internet and in store, the only thing the one's I can find will take it out is a full house filter.

According to the research I've done regular carbon and KDF will NOT remove chloramines. From what I understand a more powerful full house filter that allows greater exposure to carbon can do the trick, but the shower filters are not "powerful" enough to screen this from the water int he shower. A special type of "catalytic carbon" has been developed especially to remove chloramines. This is the only thing I know of that will remove it.

Some sources say that the Vitamin C filters will address this issue, but I have found dueling information on this as well.

Any other information that you might have would be greatly appreciated.

[Larry G]

I've never found a shower filter that can take out chloramine, only chorline. I've searched high an wide all over the internet and in store, the only thing the one's I can find will take it out is a full house filter.

According to the research I've done regular carbon and KDF will NOT remove chloramines. From what I understand a more powerful full house filter that allows greater exposure to carbon can do the trick, but the shower filters are not "powerful" enough to screen this from the water int he shower. A special type of "catalytic carbon" has been developed especially to remove chloramines. This is the only thing I know of that will remove it.

Some sources say that the Vitamin C filters will address this issue, but I have found dueling information on this as well.

Any other information that you might have would be greatly appreciated.

Well, I'll take some quotes straight out of the plant operations manuals after a couple hours of research:

Chloramines (Ops Manual)
1.) "Chloramines have proved effective in accomplishing the following objectives;
- Reducing the formation of trihalomethanes and other disinfection by-products
- Maintaining a detectable residual throughout the distribution system
- Penetrating the biofilm and reducing the potential for coliform regrowth
- Reducing taste and odor problems
- Killing or inactivating heterotrophic plate count bacteria"

2.) "Although chloramines are nontoxic to healthy humans, they can have a weakening effect on individuals with kidney disease who must undergo kidney dialysis. Granular activated carbon and ascorbic acid are common substances used to reduce chloramine residuals. All special water users should be notified before chloramines are used as a disinfectant in municipal waters."

Activated Carbon (Ops Manual)
1.) "The surface area of granular activated carbon may range from 500 to 1400 square meters per gram. This large surface area is responsible for the high degree of effectiveness that can be achieved with this substance.

2.) As water passes through a field of activated carbon, contaminants are adsorbed onto the carbon's surface and internal pore spaces. This process will continue until the activated carbon can no longer adsorb the material."

Water Tech quote
"A cost effective technology to degrade and remove chloramines from potable water is activated carbon filtration. Activated carbon removes impurities by transferring the impurity from a liquid phase (water) to the solid phase (carbon).

There are two methods of transfer:

* Physical adsorption; and
* Chemi-sorption.

Carbons also have reduction-oxidation (redox) functionality and act as catalysts to enhance certain chemical reactions. This catalytic functionality is a necessary ingredient in the removal of chloramines by activated carbon.
Physical adsorption

Physical adsorption holds impurities within the pores of the carbon particle by weak van de Waals forces called London Dispersion Forces. London Forces are similar to gravitational and magnetic forces that pull and trap the impurities on the carbon pore.

Adsorption is the primary method for removing trace amount of organic impurities.
Chemi-sorption

Redox and other chemi-sorption reactions occur on the surface of the activated carbon. Unlike physical adsorption, redox and chemi-sorption change the impurity’s chemical structure.

For example, the result of chemi-sorption on chlorine is its reduction to chloride.

Chloramines are degraded by a combination of redox and chemi-sorption reactions with the activated carbon’s surface oxides chemistries. "

IMO, a screw-on AC filter, depending on flow rate and if it is constructed of granular or powdered activated carbon, will probably reduce, but not altogether eliminate, chloramines in the water. If total elimination is the target, you may have to go with an in-line GAC unit before the shower outlet.

I cannot not comment on a vitamin c filter since I have never heard of such a device.