now is a good time for that carry permit you have been putting off - Page 4
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  1. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by redhead68 View Post
    Reacting with equal force is escalation, whether or not you want to admit it, and your detailed description of how you would respond indicates to me that you have a deep need to prove your physical prowess, a trait that is likely to land you in a hot water. Carrying a weapon also creates an nearly irresistible temptation to use it. It's a classic example of the Law of the Instrument (i.e., Maslow's hammer): When the only tool you have is a hammer, it is tempting to treat everything as if it were a nail.



    Nobody is asking you to do so, but you also have the choice to avoid situations that put you at risk for such a confrontation. I am not opposed to the 2nd amendment, but I think it's important to recognize that carrying a weapon may give you a sense of invulnerability that leads you to take unwarranted risks. There are other effective ways to protect yourself, and your posts lead me to believe that you will dismiss them prematurely because it's faster and easier to pull your weapon.
    Escalation is reacting with a higher degree, not equal. I have no desire to prove anything. I hate violence, and have never been in a fight I started. I carry my weapon because it is common sense, and I hope I never have to use it. I do avoid situations where I would have to use a gun, I go about my daily life, not taking more risks than I normally do. I have no sense of invulnerability, and served a tour in Iraq in 2004, so I kind of know what I am talking about in reference to escalation and using weapons. There is no other effective means against an armed assailant than carrying a weapon and being good with it, trust me, I have done plenty of research. I do not dismiss any options, and would love to be diplomatic with anyone I meet, but I will meet force with force. If someone comes at me with a gun or knife, there aren't any other options. Almost all other carry permit holders feel the same, and I will do what it takes to not have to shoot anyone, but I will if I have to, and I have done it before.


    I do not have a nearly irresistible temptation to use my weapon, and everyone else I know who is armed feels the same. If anything, I do not want to use it. My detailed response is how I have trained, and is the simplest, most effective method for the reaction to the scenarios. As far as the "hammer" thing goes, my gun is the absolute last option to be used. I have nothing to prove to anyone.

    Your analyzation of me is completely wrong, which isn't surprising, considering I have heard the same liberal milkspew out of countless mouths over the years. Most gun owners are responsible people, moreso than the average population. They just recognize that there are times when the only option is a quick and deadly response. I hope you never are at the mercy of a rapist or mugger, because people like that have no sympathy. If someone attacks me, they already proved what kind of person they are.
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  2. #47
    Rude and Vile Master Greebo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by redhead68 View Post
    Greebo, I find your abrupt dismissal of my opinion disheartening, so I will leave the last word for you and AB27. Enjoy.
    Why would I give credit to an opinion that's arguing about a straw man?

    You picked one statement from my post and twisted it to your meaning when I'd just spent an entire post explaining what the violation in question was.

    Any argument based on false premises is a false argument. There is no need to go past the premise in such cases.

    If you want to try to explain how the threat of force against an individual is NOT a violation of the individual threatened, I'll be happy to hear it out, but don't insult my intelligence by misrepresenting me then chastising ME for not dancing the straw man dance, please.
    If you could kick in the pants the person responsible for your problems, you wouldn't be able to sit for a month.

    Did you know that a 4 year student paying $20,000/year who finances their education graduates with over $103,000 in debt to start? But a student who works and pays cash and takes 6 years to graduate ends with $6,300 in their pocket! So much for "getting a head start by financing!"


    Greebo
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  3. #48
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    Shouldn't this thread go in the Debate site.
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  4. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by redhead68 View Post
    Greebo, I find your abrupt dismissal of my opinion disheartening, so I will leave the last word for you and AB27. Enjoy.
    Typical response, leave when you are faced with facts. Everything you have stated is emotion based, and has no grounding in reality. Would I like everyone to respect everyone else, and be nice? Sure I would love to, and I will give people the respect they give me. If someone attacks me, they have shown they are willing to kill me to get what they want, and my life means nothing to them.
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  5. #50
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    Quote Originally Posted by mhope View Post
    Shouldn't this thread go in the Debate site.
    It didn't start out as a debate, merely a common sense reminder. Then the anti's showed up and wanted to argue with facts, and they got hammered with reality.
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  6. #51
    Rude and Vile Master Greebo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mhope View Post
    Shouldn't this thread go in the Debate site.
    Probably, and I'm breaking my promise not to get into debates here...so I'll step out now.
    If you could kick in the pants the person responsible for your problems, you wouldn't be able to sit for a month.

    Did you know that a 4 year student paying $20,000/year who finances their education graduates with over $103,000 in debt to start? But a student who works and pays cash and takes 6 years to graduate ends with $6,300 in their pocket! So much for "getting a head start by financing!"


    Greebo
    (Nerd Spender): Loving and extremely patiently tolerated husband of ceashels.
    WARNING: Y Chromosome behind the keyboard. Adjust your listening filters appropriately!

    Three
    Two mortgages, two one no car loans, one no credit cards, and a partridge in pear tree!
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  7. #52
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    Quote Originally Posted by Greebo View Post
    Probably, and I'm breaking my promise not to get into debates here...so I'll step out now.
    Yeah, I don't like debates either, especially when you argue with people that don't use logic.
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  8. #53
    Registered User MomToTwoBoys's Avatar
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    The thread's entire purpose doesn't include frugality or any other aspect of life surrounding our particular lifestyle. I fail to see how its existence here in the first place was necessary.

    You post something that you know is going to end up becoming a debate, especially in terms of the haves and have nots. You're also tossing political undertones in many of your responses, which has also been known to cause unrest in a forum community that really doesn't need any.

    We have bigger things to worry about than a debate about gun ownership, permits, etc. I fail to see what purpose this entire thread has, other than for getting people upset over something that's really not up for debate. Perhaps if this included anything about saving money, ways to reuse items or budgeting, then that's another story all together.
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  9. #54
    Registered User redhead68's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ab27 View Post
    Typical response, leave when you are faced with facts. Everything you have stated is emotion based, and has no grounding in reality. Would I like everyone to respect everyone else, and be nice? Sure I would love to, and I will give people the respect they give me. If someone attacks me, they have shown they are willing to kill me to get what they want, and my life means nothing to them.
    I think it interesting that you characterize my tactical retreat (i.e., de-escalation) as defeat. There's irony in there somewhere.
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  10. #55
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    Quote Originally Posted by redhead68 View Post
    I think it interesting that you characterize my tactical retreat (i.e., de-escalation) as defeat. There's irony in there somewhere.
    The irony is the fact that you used the word "tactical" when it is obvious from your posts you have no idea what this means in a military or weapon sense. You haven't posted any facts on anything, if you actually had a point to talk about, I wouldn't have had a problem with you responding, but nothing you have said has any basis in reality, and shows that you know nothing about gun owners.
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  11. #56
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    Quote Originally Posted by MomToTwoBoys View Post
    The thread's entire purpose doesn't include frugality or any other aspect of life surrounding our particular lifestyle. I fail to see how its existence here in the first place was necessary.

    You post something that you know is going to end up becoming a debate, especially in terms of the haves and have nots. You're also tossing political undertones in many of your responses, which has also been known to cause unrest in a forum community that really doesn't need any.

    We have bigger things to worry about than a debate about gun ownership, permits, etc. I fail to see what purpose this entire thread has, other than for getting people upset over something that's really not up for debate. Perhaps if this included anything about saving money, ways to reuse items or budgeting, then that's another story all together.
    Because the ability to live your life without harmful interference is the BASIS of everything we do, everything we work for. Gun ownership and the associated rights are the very foundation of this country. The basis of this thread was just a reminder for those getting their permits. As far as getting upset about guns, the only ones doing this are people who have no idea what they are talking about. I wasn't getting into a debate, but I will respond if someone just talks without knowing what they are about.
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  12. #57
    Registered User redhead68's Avatar
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    Ah, contraire, but my familiarity with military operations is not up for discussion. More to the point, a valid definition of tactical is calculated. My usage is correct.

    And, for the record, I am not opposed to the second amendment, something that was apparently lost to all of you.

    I'm out. Enjoy yourselves.
    Last edited by redhead68; 07-22-2009 at 02:14 PM.
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  13. #58
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    Quote Originally Posted by redhead68 View Post
    Ah, contraire, but my familiarity with military operations is not up for discussion. More to the point, a valid definition of tactical is calculated. My usage is correct.

    And, for the record, I am not opposed to the second amendment, something that was apparently lost to all of you.

    I'm out. Enjoy yourselves.
    The issue was you trying to talk about guns and defense when you had no idea about either, that was the problem I had.
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  14. #59
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    We don't have it here yet, but I have been planning to take the test so all I have to do is apply when it's passed. I agree with your reasoning. I'm a small girl and live alone in what's not the best neighborhood (lots of bars and machine shops and just outside milwaukee which is very violent) and am concerned about what will happen 4.4 million people run out of unemployment soon. Good reminder...and it started out as a good thread...lol.

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  15. #60
    Registered User redhead68's Avatar
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    I could quote Sun Tzu until my fingers fell off, but you still wouldn't give my opinions a fair shake.
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