If this is poor, I've scraped dirt

[MissSeetonFan]

Modern Poverty Includes A.C. and an Xbox - By Ken McIntyre - The Corner - National Review Online

So what do you think?

I know part of it is because the poverty level keeps changing. And part of what defines poverty is some sort of metric where they survey American households to see what is common among them and if you have less than that, plus money below the line - you are considered poor.

I do remember being a college student. I worked. I paid my tuition - nice and cheap. And I paid for my groceries, apartment and transportation (usually a bus pass). I never exceeded $7000 in one working year for at least 4 years. I never considered myself poor.

[Shelli_wnj]

Yep. Guess I'm poor, too!

[Imarachne]

I'm really poor---I don't have an Xbox !!!

[bumplett]

what I find even more interesting than the article itsself are the comments about it.

wow.

[greekislandgirl]

Interesting little chart they have there.

Of the stuff they listed, DH and I did NOT have the following this year:
stove and oven (we had a hot plate & toaster oven), microwave, air conditioner, at least one VCR, more than one television, cable or satellite television, clothes washer, cordless telephone, clothes dryer, ceiling fans, non-portable stereo, answering machine, more than two televisions, internet service, video game system, computer printer, more than one VCR, dishwasher, separate freezer, more than one DVD player, big-screen television, more than one refrigerator, photocopier, or jacuzzi.

The ones we did have were: refrigerator (waist-high w/ shoebox freezer), television (10" with 1 channel), DVD drive in DH's computer, cell phone, coffee maker, personal computer (2 laptops).

I guess we're desperately poor by American standards. So why do we still feel like we are rich when compared with 90% of the planet?

[mh3rdwheel]

I am poor also, my son has paid for his own Xbox, the ac came with the apartment because it gets really hot in here. my extra tv was given to me and is at least 12 years old, but still works.

I went to the DHHR (welfare) office yesterday and a lot of people there have cell phones, nice clothes while me I have little clothes, manicures etc.

I say that these ones should get a job.

[nuisance26]

I know part of it is because the poverty level keeps changing. And part of what defines poverty is some sort of metric where they survey American households to see what is common among them and if you have less than that, plus money below the line - you are considered poor.

~I can agree with this from personal experience. I grew up in an 'interesting' old house in a family of 7. I knew we didn't have as much as most of my classmates at the private school I attended but I didn't feel poor. Why? Because my neighbors were 'poor'.
Our neighbor kept his hot water heater unhooked and the girls of the family(family of 8) boiled water on the stove whenever they needed it. They owned one tiny television with an antennae. They didn't have a vacuum, they swept the carpet with a broom. The house had only two bedrooms and one bathroom for all those people.
The article only tells part of the story. Last night I had to remind myself of some things mentioned in the comments. I saw a young man out in front of a shopping center last night. It was pouring rain. He had a nice umbrella, a new looking raincoat and backpack and a sign that said "Need work, Hungry, Please Help". I immediately felt skeptical of the clean shaven young man with the nice things(even I don't have an umbrella and coat like that!)that needed help. But then I thought, maybe he really does need help. Maybe he takes really good care of the things he has and has had those things for years. Maybe he gets his razors free after rebate.
The appearance of comfort or convenience doesn't mean someone is doing well. It could just mean they haven't lost all hope yet. ~

[Telephus44]

I think that the point this article misses is that there's something wrong with defining poverty by material posessions. As other posters here pointed out, just because you have or don't have X doesn't MAKE you poor or not. I think we use material posessions as a proxy for standard of living and that really doesn't tell the whole picture.

The other reason I hate picking on the posessions that the "poor" have is that often they're gifts. I might give my old Xbox or A/C unit to a struggling family. It's not that they could afford a new gaming system or that they are wasting grocery money buying a new A/C unit.


It's the same reason I hate using income guidelines for poverty levels. Someone who lives in a small paid for house can live very cheaply in a rural area and be under the poverty live, but not poor - similarly someone in a HCOL with major debt can make 4 or 5 times the poverty line and still be poor.

[shoiji]

Definately something to think about. When I was working I was able to accumulate items. Now that I am on a very limited budget had I not saved and taken care of the items I definately would not have many of what is listed. Still do not have an xbox though. (Don't want one.)

I realize I am fortunate for what I do have and that there is a roof over my head and food to eat. But I have worked very had to keep it that way by spending my money wisely. People do give you things, especially if they are upgrading, moving, or decluttering. I also can't tell you how many items I have been able to get for free because it was by the dumpster or side of the road.

When ever I start to feel weary of constantly watching and taking active measures to save money, I just remind myself that I could be living on the streets. Then I just sit back and see how lucky I have it.

[MissSeetonFan]

These are all good points. We are currently looking for new housing and I looked in to low-income housing where income restrictions apply. Despite being a family of 5, we make too much for these apartments. Yet we are struggling a bit. We need a place with lower rent so we can stay on budget and pay down bills. So we either have to choose between a bad part of town & poorly maintained places, or less money to pay down debt.

The other funny thing about the income-restricted places is that their rents are on the high end of our budget range. I think it is because they expect people to have Section 8 or other housing help from the government to help pay for it, so it is higher rent.

[Early Bird]

This article gave me a lot to think about:

We aren't poor, but we don't spend the money for cable tv.

We spent a lot of time as students. Maybe we were 'technically' poor at some point, but, so was everyone else we knew! And it's fine to be temporary-poor while you're working for something better.

If it's true that the average poor person in America has more living space than the average non-poor European, that seems to indicate that our perception of 'poor' might be skewed.

[mh3rdwheel]

These are all good points. We are currently looking for new housing and I looked in to low-income housing where income restrictions apply. Despite being a family of 5, we make too much for these apartments. Yet we are struggling a bit. We need a place with lower rent so we can stay on budget and pay down bills. So we either have to choose between a bad part of town & poorly maintained places, or less money to pay down debt.

The other funny thing about the income-restricted places is that their rents are on the high end of our budget range. I think it is because they expect people to have Section 8 or other housing help from the government to help pay for it, so it is higher rent.

You can go the way of private housing that is based on your income. I have lived in two of these places. They are usually in the same place in the yellow pages as the public apt.

[frugalwarrior2]

Well,just what would they do w/ us!lol.
I have 2 of about everything listed but bought it at 50-90% off at garage sales,estate sales and such. It's about values,priorities. I have never gotten to take advantage of any social prog. not free lunch or food pantries,financial aid for college,housing incentives and on and on. So while my DH makes a good salary we stuggle. We have always just made ends meet.
So in my mind we aren't poor but we always have to be careful and find alternative ways to do things. The words values and priorities just keep bouncing round my head.

[dwnloom]

Just my 2cents worth......I make great money, but because of dr bills for hubby - knee replacement and son - ulcerative colitisis....we struggle.......and we have great insurance.....I dont know how people do it without good insurance or good income.....

[flashyMcGee]

I agree that the comments are far more interesting than the actual article. No xbox here but I've got a Wii.