My Life is Becoming the "Maury Povich Show"

[Daisygirl]

Have you ever flipped through the channels and caught a bunch of people screaming on the TV about who the father of some poor innocent baby is?

I never thought I would be involved in such a thing, but thanks to my departed ex-husband, I find myself refereeing the Canadian version of the show.

Now, this is confusing so bear with me.

X had dating this woman, M, for 3 years. They broke up 2 years ago. Within a month he moved in with S.

Two months after he moved in with S, he cheated on her with M.

M got pregnant. X was still living with S.

Initially M told X the baby was his. The baby was born, they had a huge fight and she told him the baby was not his. They argued back and forth for 2 months, ending up with him asking for a DNA test and M refusing. Then X died. I'd like to add that M gave the baby XMIL's name as a middle name. That would take some massive cojones if it was not X's child.

My children were on the sidelines of all of this, initially all excited that they were having a sister, then devastated to learn that the baby was not their sister.

M called me when X died, just to talk. She wanted my girls to come over and spend time with the baby. I politely said no because my girls were dealing with a lot of trauma and we don't even know if the baby is their sister.

This week M called asking for a DNA sample from one of my daughters. She is on welfare and she is required to prove paternity for support of the baby. Here we have what they call "orphan's benefit" which would give a small stipend until the child is 18. Of course, she also seems to think that there is money in the "estate". Bwaahaahaaahaaaa....... I had to buy the man a tie to be buried in. There is NOTHING except debt.

So, this is a dilemma for me, morally.

My XFIL does not want the test to be done. He is very angry with M for causing X such distress over the baby - it was truly awful.

My daughters have mixed feelings about it. They would love to have a little sister but they, too, lived with the arguing and anger between M and their dad.

I am having trouble saying "Tough luck", though. An innocent child is involved. If she is truly X's baby, doesn't she deserve to receive that financial benefit? Doesn't she deserve to know who her father was? I always got along okay with M and am pretty certain that I can negotiate some visits between my girls and the baby.

I've prayed about it and pondered it all week. I think it is ethically and morally wrong to just say no. We may be compelled by the courts to provide a sample anyway, so why not be nice about it in hopes that a relationship could occur? Whatever the case, the child is innocent of any wrongdoing. Maybe she could aid in the healing for the entire family.

I'd love input, if you all were able to follow this messy situation. I bet you have to read it twice.

[Nishu]

I would let your daughters decide whether they want to donate their 'sample.' Given the fact that your daughters are older and this is basically between your X, your daughters, and M, I'm not even sure it's your right, morally, to decide this matter.

There's not any obligation toward this child. They don't have an estate to split, they don't have to acknowledge her or be her sister if they don't want. All there really is to gain or lose is knowing or not knowing. It might also be their last chance to know definitively.

Also, your XFIL shouldn't have any say. I don't know why he's so upset anyway, because if this woman is telling the truth, she lost the father of her child as well and she's well within her rights to try to prove paternity. It would be in the best interest of the baby.

[Daisygirl]

Nishu:

I agree, the decision is up to the girls. However, they are looking to me for guidance. I'm trying to provide them with the pros and the cons of the whole thing. As 10 and 16 year olds, they don't possess the maturity to see the entire picture and I don't want them to make a choice they will regret later.

My XFIL is the executor of the estate - or lack thereof - which is why he is involved. Hopefully at some point, if the girls decide to give samples, he can be at peace with it.

[Spirit Deer]

Whose name is on the birth certificate? If it's your X's, then he's probably legally considered to be the father. Case closed. If M didn't list X as the dad when the baby was born, then why is it your problem to fix now? Ditto if she listed someone else and now regrets it. It sounds to me like she messed up and now it's become your problem.

It sounds like your mind is made up. What I'm reading in your post is you would not feel right not to have the test done. So go for it, but be prepared for the can of worms it may open up to include this child in your family. You don't know what the future is or how that child might impact your family or what may be expected of you later. I hate to say it, but while this may be an innocent child now and you get along with the mother, that can change in the future. Your first obligation is to your girls, not this child.

OTOH, everything might be peachy keen forever, so overlook my skepticism. But M had two years to fix this herself. Why didn't she? Why is it suddenly important to her now? So important she has to drag your kids into it, while before she did nothing to prove paternity. You said X was willing to do a DNA test and M refused. IMO, she lost any claim she had right then and there. IMO, it looks like that child is a pawn she's using to get whatever she wants at the time, manipulating people (X) or now, money.

Whatever you do, don't let anyone guilt you into doing anything that's not in the best interests of your kids.

[madhen]

I guess if you can get your XFIL on board, your family loses nothing by allowing M to get the paternity test done. If S=you (wow, I feel like I'm back in algebra class), then wouldn't the estate, if there were any, fall to you?

I agree that you should talk to your kids, but I would try to stay as objective as possible and keep emotions and past history out of it. Personally, I'd probably encourage them to give the sample, if they are leaning that way. The baby would benefit, because M could prove the father is deceased and get the stipend; your children would know if they have other family out there; and your XFIL will have gained a grandbaby. If M is asking for a DNA sample, it sounds like SHE is pretty convinced that the baby is related. Worst case, it sounds like she tries to get money from the estate and possibly tries to get you and your family to help her with support, but she can do that anyway right now.

BTW, I found out six years ago that I have a half-sister living in Korea. It is funny how just knowing, even though I've never met her and can't speak the same language, that I have another sister out there makes me feel a little more secure in my place in the world. Hard to explain, but my family is pretty small and (so I thought) isolated to one area of the country. Now that I know about my half-sister, and her three kids, I feel a little better that our lineage is not as much of a dead-end as I thought it was!

[Nishu]

IMO, your guidance should be to encourage them to give the sample, without a doubt. Her request isnt unreasonable and there's no reason to be afraid of the results. There's nothing to lose.

What could possibly be the cons? They may or may not gain a sister and this innocent child will later know that x was or wasn't her father. Her motives, her character, her timing, I don't see these as relevant in the slightest.

And the executor of the estate is entitled to his opinion, but I don't see how his opinion should mean anything more than anyone else's. If I recall, his parents aren't exactly a holy beacon of reason and good judgment.

Put yourself in the place of his woman. She's not trying to get anything from you. If what she says is true, her child's father is dead and that entire side of the family is refusing to acknowledge the child or to form a relationship with her. Its heartbreaking.

You and your family lose nothing. There are no cons. If the test comes back denying paternity, you know. If the test comes back and says your girls are her sisters, then there's no money to lose. You and his family can still be angry with her and refuse to acknowledge her. It's a personal choice.

[Libby]

Something doesn't sound right to me. I'd pass on this and let nature run its course. The baby will get the help it needs regardless if its through the Orphans Benefit or general welfare. Sounds like she's applying for any money she can get.

The other thing to think about - if your girls did do the test and its proven that this baby is the girls half sister - does this woman expect you to babysit so all the girls can 'visit' with one another - while she gets to go off galavanting? Does she expect support from YOU b/c you're the half sisters' mother? I hate to say this but cover yer butt here, if the girls do want to do the test - write up a document and have her sign it and get it notarized stating that she is not allowed to ask you for ANY sort of support - financial, material etc associated to the fact that you're somehow now related. You know what it takes to raise/support TWO children and you're doing a wonderful job. But why is it all of a sudden your job to now raise/support a third? KWIM?

[Missourimom]

It's simple for me, I wouldn't think twice about having the test done. I really don't understand what the big deal is. This little girl deserves to know who her father is.

[mh3rdwheel]

DaisyGirl, Here is my appinion.

I grew up knowing that I have brothers and sisters that I never knew, I could pass them on the street and not know them. I regret not being able to know them.

My x-hubby, one we separated we had a daughter D, he started to see another girl that at the time I did not know about, we were trying to work it out for our DD, then we got married in May 1990, in Oct-Nov of that year x showed me a picture of a baby that he said might be his, the mother was on welfare and welfare forced her to say who the father was or they would cut her benefits (they tried this with me also), she named x, he said he would not voluntarily do a DNA (because he would have to pay for it), the state then paid for it and it was found that x was the father, x refused to have anything to do with baby.

The baby looked the spitting image of my DD, then I had a son, my children saw their sister and her mom, we all get along except for their dad.

The daughter and mom moved to Florida and through Facebook, we were reunited, the kids are invited to go to Florida next year to stay with them, and me and my DH also. My kids are very excited about this.

The mother is a wonderful person, at first I didn't think so, now I consider this girl my daughter also. My x put out the word that he died, and the daughter thought that this was true. What a thing to do, we told them otherwise.

[lottaLove]

Do you have to pay for this test?
The only reason I can see for the test to even be required is if she did not put him as the father on the BC. Why didn't she? There must have been some reason.
Yes, there is an innocent little girl involved. But your children are equally innocent.
I am just trying to put myself in this situation. If something happened to my X, and he had an undeclared child, and for some reason this person came asking me for a DNA sample from my DS to prove the paternity of her child, I think I would say no. I would do it under court order of course, but just thinking about being in that situation and handing over a sample of my son's dna to prove paternity of someone else's child makes me very uncomfortable.

[bonnotsm9]

Could your ex have threatened or intimidated her not to put his name on the birth certificate? It seems like the best thing to do would be give the sample without court order. If the child is his, your daughters may want to have a good relationship with her. Refusing to give the DNA sample could cause some hard feelings in the future for the little girl. One day she will be a teen and how will she feel about it that her sisters (if they are related) had to be forced to provide the DNA rather than just giving it voluntarily. jmo

[LuvMyHubby]

I think that if it is something your daughters after considerable thought wish to do, you should do it. If they for any reason don't wish to unless court ordered than no.

There is no money so in that respect it isn't as though this woman is going to gain financially except for some small benefit to the child and if she isn't related to your daughters then it is over and done. If she is and as long as this woman isn't expecting you to be finacially supportive then your daughters have a sibling they have a right to know and know about. I just think that denying it could come back to bite in the butt as a few years down the road one of your dd's decides that she herself as an adult wants to follow up with the child and do the testing and it turned out she is your ex's daughter, your daughter's could resent you for possible time lost with a sibling.

[shoiji]

Sounds like M probably got around. Why else would she refuse the test in the first place. That said. You are right about the baby being innocent.

Really see how it is a difficult position to be in. Would be hard to tell your daughters that they could not see their half-sister since you really do not know the intentions of the mother other than needing a sample.

You may be able to nudge the fil to think of the baby. He may eventually change his mind. But the mother of this baby really needs to find some professional help.

[mommy2krj]

Daisy,

From the sounds of it you are my Canadian twin!

We are going or rather we went through something similar. My 16yr DD's father passed when she was 10...so that's 6 years ago. She has a little brother that she knows and she sees as often as we can get them together. He's an adorable little boy.

However, at the time her father passed...he had been in the process of divorcing her brother's mother. He had been dating one doosy of girl who had her own host of issues.

We found out that she was pregnant when I was going through the house for his family. (They lost many family members in a very short period of time so out of consideration for his mom and remaining brother I took care of the house for them.)

Now, this girl sounds similar to the one you're dealing with. She would leave her own kid with him and disappear for days on end do who knows what. So when we found out she was pregnant none of us believed it....add in the fact that he was incredibly ill and taking drugs that leave you sterile. She also wouldn't take a paternity test. There are a bunch of other things that I won't go into here....but it was terrible.

My DD knows about the baby. I was asked if she wanted to meet her "other little brother" by some friends who are also friends with her. Always, my answer is no. Not until she proves to us that he is in fact her little brother. My daughter has dealt with enough trauma to have to deal with that as well.

If she did in fact come to us and ask for DD to share her DNA to prove that they were related, I don't honestly know what the answer would be. This child would be 6 years old already. I do know that I would sit down and have a long heartfelt conversation with my daughter and go over all the pros/cons of the entire situation. But ultimately, in the end, I think it would be her decision.

I don't think some people really stop and think about what their actions do to other people. I know this girl definitely didn't. Makes me feel really bad for that little boy and the fact that he may have an older sister out there that would absolutely adore him!

Good luck with your decision and huge HUGE hugs to you and to your daughters.

[Daisygirl]

To answer a few questions asked during the thread:

~ The test will not cost us anything. It is through the welfare office on behalf of the baby.

~ M and I always got along fine when she and X were together. My girls really loved her too. I was saddened when she and X broke up, but I understood, because he had cheated on me too, which is a big part of why I left him.

~ There is no father listed on the birth certificate. During the big argument preceeding the birth, X threatened to take M to court and prove her unfit, thereby claiming custody of the baby. In that case I would have left him off the birth certificate too.

~ X had been preparing for the baby. When I went to clean out his house I found a crib, a bunch of baby clothes, diapers, and a baby bathtub. Before they had their final blowout, he had told me and the girls about the baby and seemed pretty certain she was his.

~ Through the fact that X had all that stuff for the baby, I have to think he intended to care for her and be in her life.

~ The girls are really going back and forth on the subject. My oldest, in particular, feels a lot of resentment towards M because she was living with her dad through all the arguing and saw how upset he was. My youngest really loved M and would like to see her again.

~ A difficulty we may have is one girl wanting to know and the other one not wanting to know.

~ After X died both girls asked me about a DNA test to see if the baby was their sister.

~ M has invited the girls over several times since X's death but I have declined since we don't know if it is truly their sister.

~ As far as M is concerned: I don't think she is a "bad" person. I think she is very easily influenced by those around her, and if they were all telling her that X would take the baby, she likely acted on that advice. She is nice but not the sharpest knife on the cutting block.

~ As far as I am concerned, I'm willing to help support a relationship between the three girls if that is what they want. Will it be an inconvenience? Maybe. Will it cost me money? Not really, if you forget the odd Christmas and birthday gift. Will it be uncomfortable? At first, but I'll get over it.

I hope I answered everyone's questions. If not, I'm sorry I missed it!