97 million in the US considered poor

[227melissa]

A report today on MSNBC, a new study says 97 million Americans are now considered poor that's roughly 33 percent. I believe it's more than that.

[Lady_V]

Is this the report you are talking about?

U.S. News - 'Dismal' prospects: 1 in 2 Americans are now poor or low income

[227melissa]

Heard it on Chuck Todd's show, but it may be based on that study.

[MissSeetonFan]

I have been reading several different reports and blogs about the poverty line. Part of how they assess poverty has changed to a moving line of poverty definitions rather than an absolute definition. It used to be "anybody of family size X making less than Y" was under poverty. That number did get adjusted from time to time but now there are many more factors in consideration.

The new definition increased the number considered in poverty. It probably includes people in the past who made just barely too much to qualify for needed assistance. These people will be happier that they can get some help to get on their feet. But it also includes many who would not consider themselves in poverty. My family for instance. We may be living close to the line as we work on getting out of debt but we would not consider ourselves in poverty but the new definition puts us there.

One of the things talked about in the reports and blog posts I have read about having this roving definition is that it will ALWAYS keep the same number of people in poverty by definition. As opposed to the old definition which people could climb past much more easily.

[nuisance26]

~Other countries are incredulous at what we let our media and government define as poverty. It makes me angry. How condescending to "consider" 1/3 of the country poor. And then they have to point out that the rich are getting richer. Is this an Occupy article? But what they never point out(to protect their own jobs no doubt) is that those with less willingly and eagerly fork over what they have to the rich. The rich aren't robbing them, they provide services or products that everyone just "has to have". Go to a movie? You just made Brad Pitt richer. Get some mall jeans? You just made Gap execs richer. Buy a home too big for your actual needs? You just made the bankers richer. Got a loan for your new car? You just made a bunch of CEO's and stockholders happy.
People's decisions are the only poor things I usually see, the family in the video included. The teen girls tv, laptop and internet access in the face or foreclosure reminded me of an outrageous conversation I heard on the radio this week. During a call-in Santa program and very young(6 yo)girl was deemed by Santa to be a good girl. When asked what she wanted I was relieved to her her lisp "Just one thing". Unfortunately that one thing was an IPod Touch. I think even the Santa was shocked. How far we've come from the days of Abe Lincoln borrowing a book to read from his neighbor. And when it was ruined through his fault he fessed up and worked of the debt for three days. As a kid.
After two 3% raises this year my family of five will finally be above an income of $40K a year for 2012. We live and thrive within our means. I think we're pretty rich.~

[Nishu]

The rich aren't robbing them, they provide services or products that everyone just "has to have". Go to a movie? You just made Brad Pitt richer. Get some mall jeans? You just made Gap execs richer. Buy a home too big for your actual needs? You just made the bankers richer.

Bofa sucks at running a business. They are dishonest and incompetent and nearly destroyed their own company. This girl won't go near them. Guess what? They still got my money via tarp and a billion other tax funded programs.

The airlines suck, and I'm careful to do business with one that isnt inherently evil, and guess what? They still got my money.

I have used cars that are paid for and nearing 100k miles. And guess what? The auto makers still got my money.

Mcdonalds is all kinds of bad, and they are being subsidized through grain subsidies. Their most profitable menu item is dirt cheap because our government funds it through the back door.

I don't give a crap about the gap, or apple, or whatever other company the anti OWS people want to point at to illustrate what hypocrites OWS is. What I do care about is companies milking the federal government through sweetheart deals. For the past ten years or so we've been hearing that that it's none of our business what CEOs make because the free market decided it and the job is hard. That's awesome, that's lovely, that's a heartwarming story of hard work and success, UNTIL that same CEO runs his own company into the ground and the asks for my money to bail them out, AND THEN most of those same CEOs walk away with a huge bonus as reward for their incompetence.

Go ahead and keep telling yourself that you're not worried. Go ahead and tell yourself that it's not your problem because you're not giving them money. I have news for you folks, when our dollar collapses and our military is all over the world and we can't afford gas to bring them home, it isn't going to matter who was smart enough not to buy gap jeans. We are all going to pay for this just the same.

[Nishu]

And ftr, the OWS has spawned many side movements that support buying local, buying American made, and moving to local banks, so I really don't see what you're going on about.

[Nishu]

Gah! This stuff frustrates me so much. I'm sorry I get to be such an @$$ in these threads but I just dont understand why were so determined to tear down these protestors when their primary concern, to stop business from running the government, is something almost every single one of us can agree on. And if you don't think it's a problem, you need to get cozy with a newspaper.

Income distribution is a big problem. The great depession was caused in a large part due to the lack of buying power among the middle class. Even the most conservative news sources have been trying ring the alarm over the disappearance of the middle class. This is not an imagined problem. Just because you know someone who is on welfare and wears nikes doesn't mean that the lobbyist for the poor are somehow exaggerating the problem. And a six year old asking for an iPod? Yeah, that's what six year olds do. My 7 year old wants a big giant puppy for Christmas. Dont read too much into it. Christmas is for dreaming.

[nuisance26]

~I guess that all was directed at me? I think you read that as my opinion about Occupy when it was not. I know very little about the OWS movement and have seen no media on it until this week when I carved out some time to look into it. My comment wasn't in favor or against the movement or anything related to it. The article just seemed like it was echoing the sentiments of the 99% arguments I read. I haven't learned enough yet to form an opinion.
I absolutely agree that that the government shouldn't be subsidizing, funding or bailing out businesses. People should be speaking up about that and voting accordingly. But when calling in and voting doesn't get you the result you want(I'm a conservative in NJ, I never get my way!) and the government does something else you still have choices you can make about who gets your money. Buy used jeans!
What I'm going on about is entitlement and simplicity and an understanding of what actual poverty, not comparative poverty, is. The level of luxury people expect these days is insane.~

[Nishu]

Yes it was, and I hope we can all leave this thread and not worry too about our disagreements if it's not too much to ask.

Yesterday I got in a girly slap fight with some girl on Facebook who, aside from being generally hateful, is always making comments about Seattle protesters and what lazy morons they are. SHE works for a living and doesn't expect handouts. Yesterday she complains about school budget cuts and says that her 4 year old special needs child sits on the bus for an hour and a half because of budget cuts. Her four year old, who isn't old enough for mandated education, is going to school on the taxpayers dollar, and that includes transportation. When I pointed this out, she went on about paying taxes or some nonsense. Does it matter that OWS would loved to work against the budget cuts at her educational center or that the bleeding of the government that OWS works against is partly why it happened to begin with? Of course not. She's just hateful. That has nothing to do with you, but it might explain my frustration.

I just want people to really pay attention to what's going on in our government and to really think objectively about these protests. Some of them might be leftists, but there are a lot of right wingers too. Veterans, libertarians, free market prophets, anti-Fed activists... They're all there, and all of us will benefit from their work whether we like it or not. They've accomplished a lot all ready, believe it or not. The corruption that has polluted the government is still there, but the conversation about it hasn't stopped. I hope that OWS keeps putting it in our faces, because until we address it, the middle class is going to keep disappearing.

[Nishu]

And I can't believe I'm about to post this, but I am really warming up to Sarah Palin now that she's not threatening to become president.
Palin: Congress, stop lining your pockets ? USATODAY.com

This is why people are angry, and it's why we can't get congress to do their darn jobs.

[oheoh's momma]

wow . I don't even want to open my mouth... I feel very sorry for the poor who are truly disabled mentally or physically...

[lisaflex]

i thikn it all depends....jmho

what is poor/poverty? thankfully, we have never lived either but we have hit huge bumps in the road but thankfully were able to recover very very quickly...in regards to class...imho, when this whole recession/depression is over, there will only be 2 classes..the wealthy and the poor.

but, we are all in chage of our own destiny...not anyone else to include the president.

partly because so many people are getting handouts that are able bodied to work (now, no bashing as i understand it all depends on where you live) where we live, there are lots of places hiring..and, i for one, if need be, would be more than happy to go work at starbucks serving my friends if we needed the $$, but some people just dont have that train of thought.

another reason, again, my own personal opinion, is too many people depend on others to find them work...why not start a business of some sort..do what you love and make $$ at it? we know plenty of people who have done this and are raking in the dough! we are both self employed also. so, we make our own $$...no one pays us.and we pay a HUGE nut for health insurance... so, sometimes peoples thoughts rub me the wrong way...there is opportunity out there, its just having the resources to find them. whether it be school or other...

and, as we all agree here, it also is about living below your means....dont buy iphones or itouches or ipods or big flat screen tv's the list goes on and on...if you cant pay your phone bill or your electric bill..common sense....so many americans fall into that trap...that is the main reason our country is in such a disarray right now...and it saddens me!

who cares if someone wears gap jeans? not like they are $190 jeans...you can get them for around $45 i think..or buy them at your local SA or GW...dont complain that others have them. you dont know their story.

in regards to the occupy thing...well, i have my own thoughts on that and will keep them to myself!

i know this is a cliche and overused...but, thinking outside the box sometimes is just the answer you have been searching for.

and, what is considered weathy? a family of four that makes $80K or $500K? funny, people dont always know what people did to make that money and never bother to ask but are okay bashing them for having more than they do....we personally dont think that 200K is wealthy..it is making a decent living where we live. so, that being said, who can put the label of poor/poverty/wealthy on anyone?

sometimes taking a chance can prove to be the smartest decision one has ever made. you know, good old fashioned leap of faith...never know til you try...at least you would have tried...

i agree w; nishu...we are all going to pay somehow someway....and it aint gonna be pretty.

[ncarr]

Thanks for the article Nishu-- it was really interesting.

I sometimes find some of the classifications for "poverty" in America odd. Poverty is defined as "the state or condition of having little or no money, goods, or means of support; condition of being poor." I think we over use the word. Having a low income is not synonymous with being destitute. I'm not saying that life is easy on a low income-- just that "poverty stricken" might not be the correct label. Like someone said earlier it is challenging to raise 5 children on a $40,000 but not impossible. To me poverty means unable to sustain oneself. Just some food for thought.

[nuisance26]

~Girly slap fight. Never been in one of those, don't plan to be, don't consider this to be one. But it's a funny mental image!
I'm used to agreeing to disagree. I think growing up in a larger family of opinionated people trains you for that.
But I don't think we're actually disagreeing here. I don't think we generally do when the talk turns to politics, but I don't post too much on those threads because I don't like having to come back, like this, and write up a life philosophy to explain why I said such and such and I didn't mean it that way, blah blah blah. Debating is annoying but I do like reading everyone's opinion. So if I offended anyone with my comments here and they would like me to explain what I meant then feel free to ask.
I should think it would be clear by now that I'm not an evil person. I am a tired homeschooling mama who is trying to wrap up her life in NJ and preparing for a huge life-hanging move to CO. So my replies are rather stunted and erratic these days.
I stand by my Santa story though. Christmas may be for "dreaming" for some kids but why aren't those dreams for a doll, dress up clothes, a train or a soccer ball? Even a Leapster wouldn't get me too riled. The brainwashing and cultural norm of an IPod for a small child is just sad to me. Owned items are symbols of a person's responsibly and place in the world. As responsibility,age and place go up, the items acquired have increasing worth. If you start a child out with fancy baubles and they think or come to believe that their place deserves them, what will they graduate to at each step up? That's where I'm coming from on that.
Ok, I think we've derailed this thread enough. ~