Keeping Your House Clean....

[Pepper]

I have always been organized and kept a spotless house, mind you we have no children, so that makes it easier on me. Growing up, my parents house was always clean.

My sis, who is 6 years older than me lives in a pigsty!! No exaggeration. When you go to her house if you want to sit down, you have to remove trash, clothes, shoes, etc out of the chairs. Her dining room table is loaded with trash. You cannot see her floors. Her bathroom is repulsive. I have yet to go in to the bathroom and there not be feces and urine all over the seat!!!! I cannot bear to sit down and go to the bathroom, I will clean it up, but I just can't go!! There are plates of food, bowls w/dried food and used q-tips in them in her living room. The dishes in her cabinet are not clean, they are covered in grease and stuck on food. And what really got to me tonight was in her bathroom, on the shelf was used pads. Not wrapped in tp or in the wrapper and just laying all over the shelf. There is a trash can right beside the toilet!!

I have helped her clean before numerous times, and it always is back to the mess within a week. I just can't see going down there all the time and cleaning her house! I'm fed up!

She has kids and that is not a healthy environment, for them or her and her dh. Dh gripes and complains all the time, but it does no good. He used to try cleaning up on his day off of work, but it never seemed to put a dent in it! Her laundry room floor is covered with dirty clothes, mounds upon mounds of them. She washes what they all will need for the next day and that is it. Then she has the nerve to tell me that she is exhausted cause she did a load of laundry!!!

I don't understand how she can live in that filth, and she does not care who comes over and sees it!!!! I would be so embarrassed. Tonight for instance, her dirty panties were in the kitchen floor, and she just kicked them over by the stove as she was heading to the laundry room to get the clothes out of the dryer.

She is not teaching her kids anything by doing this. They will get a can of pop and leave it on the floor, spilt. When they open food, they just throw the wrapper on the floor. Anything they drag out to play with etc, will still be in the middle of the floor months later.

I'm sorry to be going on and on, but I am just so disgusted. Is it possible she doesn't see the mess? She knows how to clean, we all had chores growing up! I can't seem to say anything to her because she just gets mad and practically screams, I'm tired I have worked all day. Mind you the house was the exact same way when she stayed at home!

She wants me and dh to come down for Christmas dinner, but there is no way dh and I would eat at her house! I don't even know how to tell her we won't be coming as she will be upset. Should I cook everything dh and I want to eat and take it with us? Should I take their presents down on Christmas Eve, with some snacks and tell her dh and I want to spend Christmas by ourselves this year?

Any advice would be appreciated.

Chey


Sorry, I just realized this probably should have went in Family! Feel free to move it, and again sorry about that!

[Englishlady]

Chey,

You say your sis is NOT fazed or embarrassed by her filthy home? but yet, you fear she may be UPSET that you don't want to eat in her filthy midden?

Surely, if she has not taken on board any previous hints or tips, that you are too scared to eat there, SHOULD be the wake up call she needs?

IMOH she sounds like she needs a bit MORE in the way of hints that will work!, that said she may have other issues ( given that she is leaving VERY personal stuff around)she may even need professional help?

Any way if it were me, NO way would I eat there, even taking my own stuff! the not eating at here place might just be the wake up call she needs, and if it isn't, then she really DOES need outside professional help.

I hope you have a nice Christmas, anyway!
Karen

[Early Bird]

Pepper, it sounds as if there might be more going on than just an unwillingness to clean.

1. How old are the children? Are they old enough for chores, or are they high-maintainance age? Do any of them have special-needs which drain the family's energy?

2. What is overwhelming her? Is it too much stuff? Alcohol? Surfing all day long? Exhaustion from dealing with kids? Sleep deprivation?

3. You might introduce her to Flylady. www.flylady.net. Flylady has some wonderful wisdom:
"Housework done incorrectly still blesses your family."
"Declutter for 15 minutes/day."
"5 minute room rescue."
"USE A TIMER."

Flylady also writes about the way that Perfectionism can curse our lives. In other words, if a job is too big to do perfectly, people think, "Why try?"

Maybe give your sis a timer for Christmas and show her how to use it. I know that I'm always surprised at how much 15 minutes of focused work can accomplish.

Also, you might want to print out a Control Journal for your sis .... or print out some of Canadian Gardener's ideas on streamlining housework. (Canadian Gardener is one of our forum members.) Here's one of her relevant posts. If you think it suits you, she's written LOTS more on our site; just search on her name.

The house that cleans itself!

[Early Bird]

One thing that helps me and the kids stay on track is a FLIGHT PLAN. I have one for each weekday. In the morning, I post it on the bulletin board, so the kids can see their chores.

Each child has 4 chores + 1 Morning Chore. This month, my 11-yr-old will be unloading the dishwasher for a morning chore. My 9-yr-old will be feeding the dog.

Here's today's flight plan:

11 yr old
Vacuum kitchen + edge vac
Fold & put away laundry (1 load)
Dust one bookshelf
Mom’s choice - wrap gifts

9 yr old
Vacuum main rooms
Fold & put away laundry (1 load)
Bathroom counter & floor
Mom’s choice - wrap gifts

Mom
Water plants; Start laundry; Exercise; Pack DH's lunch; laundry -> dryer
Breakfast; organize day; plan supper; brush & floss
Kitchen counters
Teach children (we homeschool)
Pay bills
Mom’s choice

Mom's choice: organize 1 drawer, shelf, cupboard. Wipe off stove, fridge, sink. Clean tub. Catch up on paperwork, school records, Quicken. Craft or project with kids. Read while children fold laundry. Read to children. Etc.

As you see, it's not too overwhelming. Pretty much, we do bathrooms on Tues/Thur; and we vacuum on M-W-F. But a kid can do 4 chores -- it helps a LOT.

[YankeeMom]

I have known a few people like that. (shudder)
Unfortunately, all the ones I knew/know have absolutely no interest in being clean. One person actually told me, 'there's no point in my cleaning, it will just get dirty again'. She has no pride in her home, doesn't care who sees it clean/dirty, doesn't care that her kids are living in filth...then comes crying to me that she can't get her kids to clean up after themselves. Gee, I wonder where they learned it.

My ex-SIL also got my neice & nephew taken away from her by the state because her house was filthy like that. She never got them back. They live with family now.


I would just be blunt.
"I'm sorry, for health reasons I cannot bring my family to your place until it is clean." Maybe the fact that people won't come over to her house because of the filth will be something of an eye opener, but I doubt it.


I can't get over that you cleaned her toilet, eeeeeeeeeewww! LOL

[pammy]

I cannot fathom someone willingly living in filth like that. And I'd DIE if someone saw my home messy, much less filthy.

I have 3 sisters. We all grew up the same in my parents clean home, we all had chores. Some of my sis's aren't as clean as I am, but they aren't that extreme as you and your sis are. Makes ya wonder if there really is some kind of imbalance. Has she always been like this since leaving your parent's home?

Sounds like hints aren't working. Jmho but I'd put it blunt. "We're not coming, we fear for our health". Maybe she does need some hurt feelings to really SEE how she's living. That'd be a huge wake-up call if that were me. Making some excuse won't let her know how you really feel.

I have relatives that live like that. Well, used to, don't know about now. I haven't been in their homes in years, for that very reason. Their kids grew up in that and live like that today.

Wonder what your sis's children think? Do they have friends that come over? Do they ever go to a friends house and sees what a difference it is over their own home and want it to change, as well?

Hey, I'd be frustrated, too! She's perfectly capable of cleaning her own home, why should you do it? Quit that. (said in a sassy tone, not mean ) It would be like enabling her to keep living filthy because she knows you will clean it up for her.

[favesis37]

my son lives like this( maybe not that extreme) but still alot dirtier then the rest of us. the apartment complex uses my other son's apartment to show when they rent one out. 2 kids raised by the same parents, yet totally different! who knows the answer but i wonder about depression? just a thought

[guest32]

This is my friend! She lives 1000 miles away and I have been to visit her 3 times....it's not like she didn't know I was coming! Most recently it was about 3 weeks ago...I was going to post about it, but didn't want people to think I was a *clean snob*.
Seriously...it's sickening. They moved in July and I was really excited to see her new place....I figured maybe she had caught up while moving and gotten organized and cleaned everything up. Nope. I can't stand to eat there either....I made sure we were *out* for lunch every day (I paid) just to be safe. I was staying in her son's room in the basement with it's own bath. He's 12...the bathroom had not been cleaned before I arrived....use your imagination. Both cat boxes were overflowing...laundry everywhere....nasty kitchen...no place to sit that wasn't covered in *something*. She has 3 cats and two large dogs in the house....and it's obvious. I tripped over her son's backpack when we came in the door, she just walked over it. They also do not eat any regularly scheduled meals. It is just a free for all with food left out, etc. whenever someone gets hungry. I just don't get it...I have never seen anyone live like this!! However...she is my best friend in the whole world. I love her. She is kind and giving and truly a wonderful person....but her lifestlye makes me cringe! It does not bother her one bit! I really don't think I can visit her anymore.....it bothers me that much I'm kind of a clean freak and I wonder what she thought when she visited me this summer??? Her room and bath were nicely fluffed with fresh towels and toiletries (my dh travels so I have lots of goodies) and fresh flowers. I had a case of her favorite soda and offered three good meals and snacks every day....does she think *I'm* weird???

[Pepper]

Well, my sis has 5 kids. 2 of them are step-children. There ages are 16,15,13,12, and 6! All of them are old enough to do chores but she doesn't enforce this. She also will complain that they never pick up after themselves. That gets me everytime!

When they come to my house, I feel like I am always telling them, "Pick up that wrapper", "Throw that away", "Go back to the bathroom and clean up your mess, don't forget to turn off the light when you come back out"!!!! The youngest one seems to remember the rules of my house when she comes, but the others I honestly think are hopeless.

My sis always says that I am too obsessed with cleaning and that nobody can have that clean of a house all the time. Well, if you put the white glove on you will find dust!!

She works, yes, an 8 hr day, but come on, it doesn't take that much to pick up the clothes you take off, put your dishes in the sink, and I don't think she even owns a broom!

Her dh bought her a vacuum cleaner last year for Christmas, oh my did she hit the fan. If he loved her he would have put more thought into the gift. Now it is run down and doesn't suck. Lord knows what she tried to vacuum up!!!

She watches that show, can't remember the name of it, with Aggie and yeah that one, they go around and clean peoples homes, they are normally filthy. And she honestly believes that that is what 9 out of 10 peoples homes looks like!!

I honestly think it is just sheer laziness! I honestly do not think she is depressed, if she is this seems to be the only symptom!! When she gets home from work she gets on the computer and stays there until bedtime. Dinner is always fend for yourself. No set eating schedule there, they eat when they want, what they want. All junk!!

As for cleaning her bathroom, I had to pee so bad it was about to dribble down my leg, but even after I had cleaned it I couldn't make myself go, so I went home. If she noticed I had cleaned the toilet, she never mentioned it!!

[Michele Annette]

It's just so sad that your sister can let her family live like this, much less herself.

I am much less critical of others than I am of myself, but absolute filth is not something I stand of anyone. I know you don't want to hurt your Sister's feelings, but I would not eat there if you paid me! Like Karen mentioned, I think she needs professional help and a bit more than just a nudge in the "hint" department.

I cannot fathom someone willingly living in filth like that. And I'd DIE if someone saw my home messy, much less filthy.

Me too. I got the "clean freak" jean from my Mom. I was responsable of all sorts of deep cleaning chores. I hated it at the time, but I'm thankful!

Sometimes the kithen table can get a bit cluttered during this time of year because of all the baking and candy making I do, but everything is very clean. I hate it if people stop by suddenly and my dishes aren't done. I hate a dirty bathroom period, I couldn't imagine the things you saw. How terrible!

I'm sorry you have to deal with your sister in this way.

[MOMMYDEAREST]

thats just disgusting!!! she isn't teaching her children anything by living this way. i would consider my house clean...besides the normal toys in the living room, but not wrappers & trash & pop can laying around. if i was her hubby i would be mad too...there is no reason to live that way. it seems like pure laziness on her behalf. those older children should be doing some chores around the house. my 6yr old even has to do chores around our home. i would hate to see what kind of housekeepers her children are going to be!!!!!

[Katybird]

That is really sad. I don't understand how people can live like that.

[Mom23boys]

This actually sounds like my ex-SIL's home. Every time we would go to there house, which was not very often, food was stuck to the table, high chair, floor, all the furniture. Mice would actually crawl on the counters! I kid you not!! I thought it was NASTY!! Dirty clothes were everywhere. Dirty dishes were piled high in the sink and covering the counters. I didn't even want to sit down. I preferred to stand.....near the door.

I agree with Karen too. I think she needs professional help. AND I would absolutely not eat there.

[guest32]

So, what would you suggest as a house guest? (see above post)
I love visiting my friend. We are both into thrifting and she knows the best places...we have fun crafting and sewing together. It's just the *house* that creeps me out! This last trip...I cleaned up the kitchen one morning when she took her boys to school. She smiled and kinda giggled and thanked me. She says she just can't keep up (she works part time) and it just doesn't bother her.
I have learned to take my own food (oatmeal pkgs, granola bars, trail mix, etc) because there is seriously no way to know when there will be food. I took my own soap even because the last time I visited...then was none in any of the bathrooms!!! She left me clean towels and the sheets were clean, but everything else was just....ICKY! Even her 7 year old wore his clothes to bed and then wore them again to school the next morning (I kid you not!) She says boys just don't care. In four days I never saw either of the boys bathe or shower. Her dh makes coffee in the morning, but seems rather territorial about it, so I never ask and he never offers me any. I just wait till we go to town and then ask her to find me a coffee place so I can get some. One morning I walked through the basement to go upstairs and stepped into a puddle of what I can only assume was dog urine (in my stocking feet) I told her one of the dogs had an accident and she said she'd get to it later....ewwww!!! I actually got up in the middle of the night because the stench from the cat boxes was keeping me awake (in the next room...laundry area) and dumped some more clean litter into the box to cover it up! How do people live like this???? And how can they seem so *normal* otherwise???

[canadian gardener]

Ok first off, it's mental illness. She needs treatment. Unfortunately that How Clean is Your house show, with Aggy and the other gal, use a lot of this kind of squalor (and that is what it is) to market their show. It's shock value.

Squalor Survivors is a self help group on the web for people with this disorder.

I was delighted when Oprah realized (after her special with the How Clean is Your House who came in and cleaned up a woman with this disorder)

that it was mental illness, and just cleaning it up wouldn't help.

She got a specialist in this disorder on for the follow up show, and yes the lady was slipping backwards rapidly till he started to work with her.

He was a lot like Flylady, baby steps, and dealing with the feelings.

These people experience fear and dread and panic (it's like a panic disorder ok?) at the very thought of throwing something out. They might be making a mistake.

Normal people hit a clutter limit and start to toss. Lots of people tolerate awful amounts of clutter but are mentally healthy.

You know it's crossed the line when it becomes a health issue. Normal people pick up before then.

If you want to do a search (I don't have enough time this morning) try Oprah's site for the link to the dr who treats this.

And try Squalor Survivors (google it) for the squalor self help site.

And then flylady,

all three offer help and retraining so that the person can gradually come out from under.

All that trash could leave tomorrow and they will have it back within a week because it's an emotional safety zone for them.

What is wrong with scolding or cleaning up for them, is it reinforces their feelings of helplessness. When the filth is gone, courtesy of someone elses hard work

THE ANXIETY IS STILL THERE, and ten times worse.

we don't do them favours by doing it for them.

I have a friend I've known for 17 years or so, and she is like this. Like Oprah's squalor lady, she suffered multiple attacks and abuse.

Over the years she is getting better and smelling better but I won't loan her books or CDs or stuff (the smell when I get it back means I need to toss it out) nor will I eat food she prepares, nor will I go visit her in her house. She isn't clean physically, so it was easier to visit in public places like McDonald's or church, and on the phone.

I do spend time especially on the phone with her and over time as she dealt with her emotional stuff, the other is getting better but it's no overnight fix.

Protect your health, don't go there but keep the emotional lifeline open, via the phone or meeting for coffee somewhere.

Don't scold, but gently confront. Tell her why you can't go there anymore, but explain that you don't want to cut her out of your life, so coffee at McDonalds, or phone visits will have to replace the visits for now till she is ready to change.

HTH