Slight vent....honest question

**jkelstaten** · 01-27-2007, 02:43 PM

This is nothing related to anyone on here....so please don't take offense.

WHY do some people that are into organic/specialty foods insist on making others feel like they are chewing on chemicals with everything that they eat?

I am part of a yahoo group and there is someone on it who feels it is her duty to alert the group about all the chemicals that our food is exposed to and how we're all going to die if we eat them. (Not really exaggerating on that either). Mind you this is a group about cooking and stretching our pantry. Not a health advice group. She bashes all the recipes that include sugar, white flour, you name it. According to her we should all be using specialty sweeteners, whole wheat flour, gluten free, casin free organic items. Mind you she is able to do this for her family on a small budget (her Dh makes $25k/yr) But she doesn't even seem to consider the feelings of the people that she is posting to.

She'll put a website and command....the latest was "buy nitrate free".

I'm not against organics and I'm not against whole foods, whole grains etc. But I'm not able to provide those things to my family and I don't think I should be made to feel like I'm killing my family because I have to use white flour and sugar. In this country there is no such thing as certified organic (we're told most foods grown here are chemical free, but with so much pollution here.....), they don't sell whole wheat, no sugar substitutes (like stevia, things like that). I don't know what they've done to the meat before I get it. I do know that it's fresh....lol.

In general I just skip over her posts, but she posts at least 30-40 messages a day like this. I e-mailed her today to ask her to post in more friendly manner, but she just doesn't seem to get it.

She just asked me if I could buy food at a farmer's market or pick wild produce or grow a container garden (we're moving back to the states in 3 months and we share a common yard). She just doesn't seem to realize that in places that aren't so wealthy (the U.S.) conditions are very different and we just have to deal with them.

Sorry for the vent, it's just been irritating me.....

**kaykwilts** · 01-27-2007, 02:47 PM

Are you the moderator on the list? You could ask the moderator to say something to her. You are probably not the only person irritated by her over zealous attitude.

**jkelstaten** · 01-27-2007, 02:55 PM

no, I'm not the moderator....honestly, I don't even know how to find out who is.......guess I'll go search.

**claimsgirl66** · 01-27-2007, 03:13 PM

I think most of us try to be aware what we put in our bodies and I do take my family health history into consideration-but frankly I cannot afford to pay the price for organic chicken and the like. Unfortunately some folks are so "militant" they do not respect others choices.
I tend to use humor to diffuse the "militant" folks and just play up the artificial angle----I have been told I look much younger than my 40 years and I chalk it up to all the preservatives and Nutrasweet in my system! Add in fake hair color, fake nails, fake teeth ( porcelain crowns) and occasionally a fake tan....well....ain't nothing natural about me, and I look and feel great ..tee hee

**jkelstaten** · 01-27-2007, 03:24 PM

I know what you mean...lol

I do cook mostly from scratch (I have no choice, since the few "convenience foods" they do have here are outrageously priced and we can't afford them anyway) and provide my family with balanced meals. I never learned this by example growing up and I have a long way to go, but being where I am there are so many limitations with the food I can choose from. If I refused to use white flour, we would basically starve (okay maybe not, but I love carbs....lol)

Plus, when I consider all the pollution here and the chemical laden clothes that I wear, and the shampoo and soap that I use (no all-natural stuff available here), what more is the food going to hurt me? Acid rain anyone.....lol

I'm not trying to offend anyone who can keep a completely organic lifestyle, but really in my opinion there is no such thing. We have to make good choices based on what is available to us. And that's what it all boils down to.

Okay, I'm done venting for the night.....PMS is wonderful.....hehehe!

**Emerald_Mommy** · 01-27-2007, 03:36 PM

This is one reason why I no longer do yahoo groups (except Freecycle). I was in a board (pregnancy, new baby support) and it seems like all the members did was snipe at each other. I've got better things to do with my time.

Some people just become overly militant about any and every little thing, unfortunately. We're all trying to do the best we can with what's available to us, I think. Sorry you've had this happen.

**Telephus44** · 01-27-2007, 03:51 PM

I agree with you that there are a lot of people out there with over-zealous attitudes. I have done a little research and I think that some (not all) of the whole "were just poisoning ourselves" if we eat x, y, or z, or use chemical a, b, and c are totally mis-leading and just out to scare people. A lot of people approach "whole foods" or "healthy living" from the stand point that if it's not proven safe, then it must be dangerous. I prefer to think of it from the other way around - until you prove that it's dangerous, I'll think it's safe. I really dislike the in-your-face and holier-than-thou attitudes that some of those people can get!

I would also figure out who the moderator is and ask them to tell her to tone it down!

**wanderlusting** · 01-27-2007, 05:00 PM

I know all about this. I have a co-worker who's a vegetarian and only eats organic. That's fine. But it annoys me when she lists everything wrong with what another coworker or that I'm eating. It's kind of like, this is my body-doesn't concern you.

I try to eat a lot of organics, but sometimes I can't afford it. People that are militant like that are usually trying to make themselves feel superior over everyone else.

**YankeeMom** · 01-27-2007, 05:05 PM

That is what I love about the Village

I think in Yahoo, if you go to your group's page and click on the member list, it will have a little "crown" next to a moderator's name. Those are the ones to contact about this person.

**claimsgirl66** · 01-27-2007, 05:11 PM

I agree with all the points the ladies brought up, nicely put.

While I believe intelligent people can disagree, and I enjoy a lively discussion occasionally...well, it can be a cold-cruel world out there sometimes and I enjoy these boards as a welcome respite from the "real" world.

**OzFreeBird** · 01-27-2007, 05:29 PM

This is a very interesting and valid question and thank you jkelstaten for raising it.

Being an environmental scientist (by profession) and a permaculturist (at home) I can honestly say there are good things about organics. But beating people over the head with a verbal barrage is never constructive - and if its a verbal barrage on the internet, it is downright cowardly. A lot of people love to preach one thing but practice another on the internet - its a form of fantasy and an escape from reality. I doubt your yahoo member would be quite so confrontational if you were face to face having a drink in a bar.

Its also quite possible that your member on the yahoo board probably drives a SUV to work without any thought to what it does to the environment - she probably also shaves her underarms with an "ethically unsustainable" razor.

Living in a democracy means, supposedly, that we all have choices. Some choices are no-brainers like "I can't afford that" - choice is easy then. Some other choices are harder, like being ethical about what you eat. At the end of the day, choosing what you eat is a completely personal choice and nobody has the right to tell you what to eat (unless you are in prison, in boarding school, or starving on a desert island). I can see the benefits in organics every day - but I have no right to impose my opinions and choices on any other individual and nor do I bother to waste valuable energy on such a pointless and confrontational exercise. Far better to let your tastebuds do the talking and share your produce with a generosity of spirit, than to rant about it on the internet like a complete loon. What a sad and pathetic person she sounds - and who has the time to post 30 messages on the internet a day? Very few of us on this website, that's for sure!

Thanks for reading

**Dancing Lotus** · 01-27-2007, 05:35 PM

When I come across someone that keeps hammering at everyone I just skip reading what they have to say!Unfortunatly we cant stop them any more than they can stop us.

**Dancing Lotus** · 01-27-2007, 05:38 PM

Nicely said!

Originally Posted by OzFreeBird

This is a very interesting and valid question and thank you jkelstaten for raising it.

Being an environmental scientist (by profession) and a permaculturist (at home) I can honestly say there are good things about organics. But beating people over the head with a verbal barrage is never constructive - and if its a verbal barrage on the internet, it is downright cowardly. A lot of people love to preach one thing but practice another on the internet - its a form of fantasy and an escape from reality. I doubt your yahoo member would be quite so confrontational if you were face to face having a drink in a bar.

Its also quite possible that your member on the yahoo board probably drives a SUV to work without any thought to what it does to the environment - she probably also shaves her underarms with an "ethically unsustainable" razor.

Living in a democracy means, supposedly, that we all have choices. Some choices are no-brainers like "I can't afford that" - choice is easy then. Some other choices are harder, like being ethical about what you eat. At the end of the day, choosing what you eat is a completely personal choice and nobody has the right to tell you what to eat (unless you are in prison, in boarding school, or starving on a desert island). I can see the benefits in organics every day - but I have no right to impose my opinions and choices on any other individual and nor do I bother to waste valuable energy on such a pointless and confrontational exercise. Far better to let your tastebuds do the talking and share your produce with a generosity of spirit, than to rant about it on the internet like a complete loon. What a sad and pathetic person she sounds - and who has the time to post 30 messages on the internet a day? Very few of us on this website, that's for sure!

Thanks for reading

**PrairieRose** · 01-27-2007, 06:16 PM

In my opinion some people are just down right overbearing, the topic varies but this person is probably very overbearingf in RL and to those around her as well. You're probably not the only one she rubs the wrong way either. Do your best to 'kill her w/kindness' and when you take her 'power' away from her she'll realize that nobody wants to hear her rant.

**AheeK** · 01-27-2007, 07:32 PM

I'm just finishing up my Masters in Agriculture, and that's ALWAYS one of the first questions people ask me when they hear what I do: which is better, organic or conventionally-grown food? This question is impossible for me to answer because they both have their pros and cons. To bash people over their heads with their opinion that organic is the only way to go is pointless, because there are several problems with organically grown food that have not been solved yet. For example, when I conducted trials on wheat grown on organic and conventional land, the conventional yield was over 4 times higher than organic yield. If all food was grown organically, we'd need up to 5 times the land base to grow the same amount of food. And unfortunately, most cities in North America were built on the best agricultural land; as they grow, they force farmers outward into poor land that wasn't meant to be farmed, causing erosion, destroying forests, and displacing wildlife. How much worse would this be if all food was grown organically? Especially now with such heavy pressure on the corn industry to boost yields for the ethanol industry. Perhaps this person just needs to realize there are two sides to every story. Each side has its advantages and disadvantages and sweeping generalizations are rarely correct.

Sorry to blabber on, but as you can tell, I looove talkin' about agriculture and food....