Natural and Other Disasters

**staceyy** · 10-23-2007, 08:13 PM

My dad said between 9-11, recent hurricanes and tornados, Katrina and the California fires, there isn't going to be anything left of the US. This is all so scary. He also asked where the government and insurance companies are going to come up with the money for this? I pray for our country and everyone affected.

**bumplett** · 10-23-2007, 08:22 PM

As a country, we've endured worse - in the end, civilized man will prevail.

**Luv2BeFrugal** · 10-23-2007, 08:33 PM

It is getting scary... I have friends in the hurricane areas, friends in the drought areas, and family and friends in the fire areas... It really needs to stop!!! Enough is enough!!

**mikandmari** · 10-23-2007, 08:42 PM

I recently heard that many of the natural disasters are caused by global warming... we are, I think, 1 degree warmer than a century ago. It's hard to believe that just 1 degree could reek so much havoc on the earth... but I guess it does. (You can tell I'm not terribly educated in this area... just now learning about it.)

I feel that being on board with living frugal has made me a better earthling. Not only does my family save money, but we are being so much kinder to our environment. I get frustrated now seeing all the waste going on around me!

**latierra84** · 10-23-2007, 09:30 PM

Originally Posted by mikandmari

I feel that being on board with living frugal has made me a better earthling. Not only does my family save money, but we are being so much kinder to our environment. I get frustrated now seeing all the waste going on around me!

well said. me too.

**OzFreeBird** · 10-24-2007, 04:54 AM

Originally Posted by bumplett

As a country, we've endured worse - in the end, civilized man will prevail.

Sorry, but I disagree

Mark Twain once said "we are all three meals away from being savages"

He has been proven right again and again.....civilised man will NOT prevail, because at heart we are animals (and not very nice animals at that - how many other animals kill each other (as a species) for fun? Not even cats do that - they kill mice (or birds) as "practice" to keep their skills up to scratch)
Think about Easter Island...the Mayans...the Vikings...the Norsemans' colonisation of Greenland...the list goes on and on - how these past civilisations flourished and failed, resorted to civil war and cannibalism as resources ran short, and then eventually died out.

Unfortunately, when people are starving, politeness and "civilised" behaviour goes out of the window as they struggle to grab the last can of beans on the supermarket shelf.

Yes, the fires/hurricanes are due to climate change. Australia is about 8 years ahead of the US with climate change - for the first time since 1788, we actually may have to import basic cereral crops to feed our citizens. We only have 22 million people in a nation almost as geographically large as the US, and we are in trouble. Our cereal and fruit harvests have now failed for the eighth Spring in a row.

Now that is a big change.

**Didi** · 10-24-2007, 06:05 AM

Originally Posted by OzFreeBird

Sorry, but I disagree

Mark Twain once said "we are all three meals away from being savages"

He has been proven right again and again.....civilised man will NOT prevail, because at heart we are animals (and not very nice animals at that - how many other animals kill each other (as a species) for fun? Not even cats do that - they kill mice (or birds) as "practice" to keep their skills up to scratch)
Think about Easter Island...the Mayans...the Vikings...the Norsemans' colonisation of Greenland...the list goes on and on - how these past civilisations flourished and failed, resorted to civil war and cannibalism as resources ran short, and then eventually died out.

Unfortunately, when people are starving, politeness and "civilised" behaviour goes out of the window as they struggle to grab the last can of beans on the supermarket shelf.

Yes, the fires/hurricanes are due to climate change. Australia is about 8 years ahead of the US with climate change - for the first time since 1788, we actually may have to import basic cereral crops to feed our citizens. We only have 22 million people in a nation almost as geographically large as the US, and we are in trouble. Our cereal and fruit harvests have now failed for the eighth Spring in a row.

Now that is a big change.

I'm afraid that Mark Twain (and Ozfreebird) was right.
(You don't want to see how I behave after not having slept for 1 night).

I also think that the problems you (the one that started this thread) mention are not just effecting the USA. For sure the global warming is worldwide, but also 9/11 has had great repercussions on the entire world.

and I keep wondering what would happen if, let's say 1/6, of the global defense budget would be used for sustainable energy, for example for solar panels 1/6 for healthcare and 1/6 for water management such as waste water management, irrigation projects etc.

**Persimmon Lace** · 10-24-2007, 10:00 AM

Actually extreme drought has happened before, during the time period of the 1930's in America. It's part of the Great Depression. Most of Oklahoma, Kansas, Nebraska and South Dakota was in severe drought and lost a large portion of it's topsoil to the other states. Cattle were destroyed or starved to death and in Oklahoma all records still stand for the driest and hottest days from the 1930s. Even the drought we had in 2005 to 2006 did not break the records for those years.

During that time there was the stock market crash, the Dust Bowl and the Depression that lasted well into the early 1940's. There were no large scale incidences of people killing other people or a broad lack of civilization. People here were not brought up in that era to believe "what's mine is mine and what's your's is mine". They did, for the most part help out their neighbors and families. There are several books besides the Grapes of Wrath that are worth reading about the Great Depression here in America. Personal accounts by those who actually endured the hardships but also came through the era better people or at least my great aunts/uncles and grandparents thought so. Now though, we believe we are entitled to be taken care of by the someone else, there are those who would actually kill some one over food. But if you read the accounts of the Depression, most people shared what they had with hobo's who came in off the rails. President Roosevelt's alphabet work programs helped a lot of young people provide for their families in such away that they built up self confidence and just didn't take a handout. The CCC recruited young men and paid them 35.00 a month to build roads and parks, hospitals, schools and dams. The men kept 5.00 and sent home 30.00 to their families to help them out. They wanted to work to provide help for them. These guys and gals left home at 18 to work, there was a sense of independence for them in being able to secure some employment. There were many older folks though that thought working for the government was shameful and if working for the government was shameful, asking for help was even worse for a lot of people.

http://www.usd.edu/anth/epa/dust.html
This website talks about the decade long dust bowl in the midwest

[ame]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dust_Bowl[/ame]

http://www.ccccok.org/museum/dustbowl.html

I'm not a big believer in climate change, I believe it has all happened before and will again.

One more thing, we are so far removed from our food that most people do not know where their food comes from. In that area we've become too civilised.

**frugalfarmwife** · 10-24-2007, 11:36 AM

This is a GREAT THREAD! Persimmon thank you so much for the link, I'm going to read it in just a minute here.

And I agree with Persimmion on many many points, especially the "gimme" society and so many not knowing where their food even comes from. Just a side note, the HARDEST part of my job isn't the work, it's sitting on break with people who expound on the "way of the world, food, etc" when they're SO FAR OFF BASE I almost laugh and/or cry. I've tried to discuss these matters with them without being a zealot, but nope, they KNOW IT ALL and it's scary! I just read a magazine, listen and absorb and make my husband LAUGH when I come home with the stories!

I also believe that even though yes things are worse, they're not as bad as all that. With the media constantly in our face and instantly all around the world we're just getting so much more of it shoved down our throats that it causes hysteria, until the next disaster of the day hits.

kj

**leezza** · 10-24-2007, 03:01 PM

Rant on......

I don't believe that man has totally caused a global problem although I don't think we've helped it any either.......All of the stuff I see on NOVA, NAT. GEO. Channnel, and such pretty much says that the earth goes thru cycles.....I watched something just this last weekend about a mini ice during the dark ages. The stuff I see talks about the cycles of the tilt of the earth, the currents of the sea, and the cycles of the sun, and lets not forget they say the Moon is going away little by little each year.

And while we are at it any time someone brings up that the US didn't sign the Kyoto treaty I say, thank goodness.....And I like to remind these folks that I dought very seriously if the cars in europe or asia could pass a California smog test.

I guess I am very sick of all the folks trying to blame everything on the US, when after all we are one of the most giving countries on the planet....and I am not talking about our government, I mean the people here and the charities that help folks around the world.

Yeesh, rant off....

leezza

**OzFreeBird** · 10-24-2007, 05:12 PM

Umm...I don't think anyone on this thread is blaming the US or any one particularly country for that matter...I certainly wasn't!!

The Depression was an interesting time and I've often thought about how people handled and managed to come through it. It does give encouraging insight into how people can survive adversity.

But I do believe the world is not the same now as it was in 1929. Oil had only been utilised in vehicles for less than a decade back then;- the horse and cart were still the main means of transport for most.

Because of oil, its a very selfish society now and its rare for neighbours to pool food or resources for the common good of all (particularly in urban areas, where your neighbour could die and you wouldn't know about it for a week until the smell drifts through your kitchen window). So I"m not sure if the "all for one, one for all" ethos of the Depression would extend to current day circumstances.

I could go on and on about climate change, being an environmental scientist, but I won't, because that is not what this forum is all about. FV for me is about learning to live happily with less resources, and it is great to meet so many fellow frugalists.

Its also great to see these sorts of issues (climate change, managing resources, preparing for potential disasters) cropping up more and more regularly on here. It gives me hope when a year or two ago, when reviewing the state of the planet, I felt none at all.

**leezza** · 10-24-2007, 06:09 PM

HHhhhmmmm......I know I was in rant mood earlier sorry about that.....

Anyway, I think if things get really bad you are better off in a small rural community, people in small towns and ranching/farming area's help one another out and seem to care about one another more. Also I have noticed that churches seem to do a lot of good things. I believe churches are better with these particular things than governments are.

JMHO,
leezza

**Persimmon Lace** · 10-24-2007, 06:29 PM

My post was to merely point out that just in the last century there was a decade long drought, where Mark Twain's ominous predicitions of civiliztion fell remarkably short.

Mark Twain views were definitely based on his own outlook of life. He always looked at the baser qualities of people and then took that to be the truth. While I have enjoyed most of his books I found his personal views to be dark and depressing.