Women, society - better/worse?

[Jamauk]

Mommy4ever - I couldn't agree with you more (and I hope none of my comments "got your hackles up" )

When I mentioned that it bugs me that people say they "can't afford" to stay home - it bugs me because people don't tend to look at the cost to go to work, all they see is the $$ coming in. Not everyone, but a lot of people and that's what bugs me.

I stay home because of DH's job - his schedule is so inconsistent. Sometimes he's home for 12 days straight, sometimes he's home for 2 and sometimes only for 24 hours. Then there are the stretches where he's coming and going all week, or he's gone for 14 days, etc..etc...we just never know from one month to the next. Having me home provides stability and consistency for the kids (and it allows me actually *see* my DH when he's home!)

If I were packing up my kids and dropping them off at daycare everyday, DH would be sitting at home by himself on his off days, the kids would feel like both of their parents are always coming and going. So, for us this is what works.

When my kids get to be school aged (gasp, next year, really??!!??), I don't plan to work at all, I'll volunteer and be scout leader, PTA President, etc...not because I'm a control freak and need to meddle in every aspect of my kids lives, but because I want to stay involved. The school system we live in is hit & miss - could be a great year depending on the teacher, but could be awful.....so the more I stay involved, the easier I'll be able to identify any problems and deal with them early on.

Which reminds me of another point - but I don't want to hijack this thread, so I'll start a new one. Stay Tuned!!!

[mommy4ever]

Disclaimer * no hackles were raised during the course of this discussion *

LOL.

[annymoll]

I worked ouside the home for many, many years while DH attended school, trying to work around his schedule.This was our plan.When it was impossible, as it often was, family members were paid to assist us. I did not want my children in daycare so I was very thankful.I am home fulltime, love every minute of it.I have no children at home. Most of my friends are working mothers.I assist them, and my daughter, with childcare when needed.I just do what is best for myself and my family.

[Daisysmom]

I do love this board too as you can express your opinion without being chewed out! Canadamom, I have to say that I love my daycare situation. I give you guys a lot of credit. She is my hero and a big part of our family. She has 3 kids and now grown, she says her daycare kids are her babies. Quality daycare is key to me walking out the door and leaving them everyday!

My kids too know my DH and I are the parents. We are their playmates but when the rubber hits the road, they know we are the boss.

Do you think that kids feel parents are playmates because of the society we now live in. Like the fear to go outside. I have to say I go nuts when the kids outside in front yard without me. I don't want anyone to take them!

Hmm interesting.

[perSue]

Daisysmom...
you bring up a good point.
i think maybe it's more of a societal thing, as with some neighbourhoods, children's services can come pick up your kids if someone else calls & says they overheard your child mention in school something CS thinks is "child abuse." So many parents ARE afraid (rightly so) that their kids will be taken w/out just cause.

But that shouldn't mean mom/dad equate to "playmate."
Sure, when we were kids, mom sat outside (reading, drinking her coffee, chatting with neighbours, etc.) while we were out there... but she didnt have to play with us.
Keeping an eye on your kids (even if it is just looking out the window) is necessary... each parent decides, I believe, what's necessary based on the age & maturity of their child.

I think a lot of "young parents" (ie, teens) tend to play the role of "friend" rather than disciplinarian/guide simply because they're still (usually) emotionally immature to understand being a parent...
but again, we all were "immature" to a point with our kids... since the instruction manual usually gets lost along the way in childbirth!

But especially for young children, they can't necessarily discern "mommy" from "friend" if you, as a parent tell your child "i'm your friend"... then they throw sand in tommy's eyes & "friend gets mad"... instead of "mommy gets mad".

anyway... i'm done.. that's my & i'm off my



good point tho!

[mommy4ever]

I don't like them in the front yard either, however we're in a cul-de-sac within a crescent, so not much for traffic. My 3 eldest do play out front, the boys in the neighborhood play street hockey, the girls skip, hopscotch, though i see them take shots on net with their ringette sticks to, dd10 sometimes plays net for the guys. My main paly area for the daycare is my livingroom, so I can see the kids easily. We do have a fenced yard, and our own large playset in the back yard, so that helps. i find the kids are in the back more, at least the girls. the little one is never without me or one of her eldest siblings(that is very rare though). I do hate that we can't let the kids out of our sight. but I don't think the world back then was all that safe either, it just wasn't televised as it is today. It wasn't spoken of.

We've had some attempted kidnappings here, none were successful, thank God!

[monkeywrangler71]

I firmly believe that the vast majority of parents want and try to do what is best for their kids, based on their own skills, knowledge and experience. But there are no definitive answers in parenting, and we don't truly know if we're doing it right until we're done (which is never). That's what makes it such a difficult job.

Today's parents are inundated with opinions and studies, parenting 'experts' and 'gurus', each one 'proving' the correctness of their particular point of view. Add to that the fear (real or imagined) that neighbours will report you to c.s. if they disagree with your parental style, plus the paranoia (for anyone who's ever visited a parenting forum) that everyone is watching and judging your every move.

I think parents today are secretly afraid that they might be doing it wrong, and with so many mixed messages, how can anyone feel confident that they're doing it right? Which is why I think this particular conversation (not necessarily this specific incidence of this conversation - which has been very congenial, but the topic itself) gets so emotional. It plays into every mother's worst fear, that something she's doing is going to ruin her kids.

Instead of people debating which is better, daycare or home, we just need to work to make sure both are a positive as we can possibly make them. And as women, we need to support each other regardless of which path we choose, because the absolute last thing any mother needs is more guilt.

[perSue]

kudos monkeywrangler!

well said.

[Edna_E]

I sooooo agree with everything you said here, Monkeywrangler, except the first sentence. Unfortunately I have been exposed in recent years to literally hundreds of parents who seem to care very little about what is good for their kids and very much about what enables them to pretend they don't have any. I do not know where the majority falls, but I think there is at least a HUGE percent of parents that are disinterested in their kids. Incidentally, I was always a working mom, as was mine in the 50s and 60s and as was hers in the 20s and 30s - I did pay attention to what was going on in my son's world, and made sure I spent time with him AND his friends, and did not try to be their buddy instead of a parent - but one of the best compliments I ever received was when one of his friends said I was "really cool!" because I "really listen" when they are talking. I've never been "cool" in my life, but I do truly listen.

[KFinTX]

I'm going to recommend a book that I recently read (got it from my local library). It was written in the 70s, but is a great over view of the beginnings of the Women's movement--The Ladies of Seneca Falls.

I find it interesting that over 100 years after Seneca Falls, women are still being pitted against each other on this issue. In fact, the unmarried women in the movement (such as Susan B Anthony) often clashed with those in the movement who did marry & have children (Elizabeth Cady Stanton). They still managed to work together, though, & got laws passed so that women could own property, own their own earnings from work, direct the lives of their children, and, eventually, vote.

It's interesing to note that the religious establishment for the most part opposed giving women any rights at all because the Bible required women to submit to their husbands & that giving women property & voting rights would lead to Satan taking over & the "end of the world."

[Telephus44]

Personally, I think that there are other things to blame besides feminism for the downfall of today's society (childhood obesity, higher divorce rates, etc). I think that they biggest problem is the rampant consumerism in this country - we all have to have the newest, biggest, latest and greatest that comes out. While women going into the workforce in large numbers was part of the feminist movement, it also enabled families to have more case to buy more stuff... which I believe is the ultimate problem. It leads to keeping up the with Jones... and we all know where that goes.

I am a working mother with a 16 month old DS. We actually just moved him from daycare two days and my MIL for the other three to full-time daycare - my MIL just cannot provide the same quality care that our daycare lady does. She is ABSOLUTELY PHENOMENAL - I feel 100% safe and comfortable with her as does my son - he gets excited to go there. He's always well-fed, changed when needed, new clothes when needed - she never lets him wear soiled clothes even if I forget to bring an extra set of clothes that morning - she always calls me if he seems out of sorts or if she thinks he might be sick - she helps up with developmental steps and works with us on signing - I just can't say enough good things about her. I stayed home with our son for the first six months and basically went crazy. I had so many people tell me how lucky I was but I really just felt lost and upset. I think I am a much better mom now that I work - I get to spend precious quality time with my son without being frazzled on lying on the floor from being sad and tired.

[Dutchie]

Personally I think that people (men AND women) should do what they have to do, what works best for their family and what feels best for them personally.
Our situation is like this. I am a product of two parents working every hour that God sends (they still do - they are 81 and 74 - they have their own business). From my birth till I refused to go at around 14 years old I was sent to a sitter from early in the morning till after dinner. I hated it. I always vowed that my kids would have a different life if possible. My DH had the complete opposite - he had a SAHM and LOVED it and he wanted the same for his kids.
Well fast forward 30 years. I am a SAHM and love it. My kids are thriving and love having me at home. Because I am one of the few SAHM of my kids' friends, a lot of these kids are here after school and in the evening. I don't mind - I LOVE it.

[Jamauk]

Dutchie,
I think you and I have a lot in common! I had a SAHM until I was in 2nd grade, at which point my dad switched to 3rd shift. So my mom went to work during the day and my dad worked at night. I always had a parent at home and we always ate dinner together as a family - it was great until I was in highschool (and then I *always* had a parent at home! ) (ok, so this part we don't have in common, but keep reading!)

Anyway, I've always known I wanted to be a SAHM, my kids aren't really old enough yet to run around outside by themselves, but its my dream to have all of the kids in the neighborhood running in and out of the house all day. When my kids get home from school when they are older, I fully expect a car load of their friends to tumble out of the car after them. I can't imagine a happier life!

[ladykemma2]

well, as a recently divorced woman of 44, no kids, I am thoroughly glad feminism happened, because i don't HAVE TO live with a heartbreaking, mentally ill man any more.
my job and independence made walking away possible. I just can't imagine what would have happened to me if i had been living in earlier times...