Your Family could be eating orgainc for the same price as processed food or Less

[COUNTRYBUMPKIN]

http://www.mercola.com/2005/feb/16/organic_food.htm

[QuilterMom]

The prices he quotes are one of those things that are going to differ based on where you live and sales though. (Don't mind my thinking out loud below on the prices - just wanted to do a comparison to my health food store)

1.88 lbs organic oranges $1.86 -- 99¢/lb. (avg. about $1.39/lb. here)

8.27 lbs organic Fuji apples $12.32 -- $1.48/lb. (avg. here usually falls somewhere in that price range)

3.23 lbs organic bananas $2.87 -- 89¢/lb. (they are always 99¢/lb. here)

2.47 lbs organic potatoes $1.95 -- 79¢/lb. (79¢/lb. is a sale price here and doesn't happen often; on avg. they are $1.49/lb.)

2.65 lbs * organic onions $3.42 -- $1.29/lb. (that's about the avg. here)

1 lb organic baby carrots $1.39

1.91 lbs * organic acorn squash $2.46

1 organic bell pepper $1.05

1.4 lbs * organic eggplant $2.79

1 bunch * organic cilantro $0.99

2 bunches * organic broccoli raab $4.08

1 bunch organic spinach $1.99

1 head organic romaine $1.39 (that's about the avg. here)

1 lb organic brown rice, dry $1.29 ($1.59/lb. here)

1 lb raw cashews $4.29 (he doesn't list this as organic - organic here are around $8.99/lb.)

6 oz * pumpkin seeds $1.54

12 oz almond butter, fresh ground $5.25

1 whole organic free-range chicken $9.79 --he doesn't list a weight on this so I'll assume 3.25lbs. - that's $3.01/lb. (avg. here is $3.99/lb., but there are sales for $1.49/lb. and $1.99/lb.)

1 lb copper river salmon $12.99

2.25 lbs organic free-range chuck roast beef $11.23

One package hormone-free bacon $3.49 -- again he doesn't list a weight, but I'll assume 12oz. since that's what the packages are here (a 12oz. pkg. here is $5.99+)

1/2 gal goat milk $4.78

1/2 lb organic butter $1.79 -- this would be $3.58/lb. (non-sale price here for 1lb. is $4.79-$4.99)

1 dozen organic free-range eggs $3.49 (comparable to avg. price here)

8 oz hormone-free cream cheese $2.29

12 oz sliced muenster cheese $3.99 (this would be at least $5.99 or more here)

12 oz sliced cheddar cheese $3.99 (this would be at least $5.99 or more here)

20 oz. frozen raspberries $3.18

1 can sardines $1.79

1/2 pint organic olive oil $4.99 -- this is 8oz. (that price is comparable to here, but you could never buy a bottle that small here)

2 oz sea salt $0.20 (same amount here would be 11¢)

1 oz curry powder $0.34

1 oz dill powder $0.17

small bottle balsamic vinegar $2.99

Also, the Local Harvest link he lists is a great resource. I've posted it here. Sadly, there are no organic/natural farms even remotely close to where I live (or just farms in general for that matter).

[ssn01]

See... besides being loquacious... I'm also very opinionated.

But my opinions are usually based in fact... scientific fact that is ... not "as i see it" fact!

Okay... so regarding oraganic foods... I'm all for people trying new things & finding better alternatives.

But I think it is / may be / can be over-kill.
I'll explain (hopefully briefly! ):

As humans we start from day one building our immune systems. The more drugs we take (ie, antibiotics) the less we let our immune system perform.
Ergo, "use it or lose it" - hence the devastingly rising numbers of people with auto-immune disorders and diseases.
Not that what I'm about to say would've prevented/cured/solved anyone's immune-deficiencies (as many are genetic in nature).

So, here's MY take (imho!):

The more we eat foods that have fewer "pesticides" & fertilizers (ok so many are harmful... but I'm talking the basics... maneur, e.g.) - the more likely we are to get sick.

Think of it this way, you have your veggie garden in your backyard. You let your pets "pile" in the soil to fertilize (and yes even pesticide (think urine)). You're getting whatever nutrients and even bacteria their bodies didnt want.

What strengthens an immune system?? BACTERIA!

So why get rid of it all when eventually we'll have so much susceptibility to so many strains of bacteria (which mutate fast) that we can not only shorten our own lives... but shorten the length of human nature? (which for this planet, might not be a bad idea!)

So when it comes to organic stuff... I think it's a good idea for organic meats... just look at how many kinds of diseases we can get from sick animals!!

Okay... I'm off my soap box now.

[QuilterMom]

Originally posted by ssn01




The more we eat foods that have fewer "pesticides" & fertilizers (ok so many are harmful... but I'm talking the basics... maneur, e.g.) - the more likely we are to get sick.

Think of it this way, you have your veggie garden in your backyard. You let your pets "pile" in the soil to fertilize (and yes even pesticide (think urine)). You're getting whatever nutrients and even bacteria their bodies didnt want.

I'm confused by your manure comment. I don't consider that a 'pesticide' (but then again I wouldn't want to use it from animals that have been eating grass and such sprayed with pesticides). What I consider the harmful pesticides are the crappy things like diazinon. I've done my research and I don't want to be eating that yuck.

I understand your garden comment, but that's assuming that your garden is right in the ground (not a raised garden bed or a container garden) and not fenced to prevent any animals from getting in.


Not arguing with you here, just stating what I think/believe.

[ssn01]

There are plenty of useful & nontoxic pesticides out there.
However, ones like diazonon are CHEAPER!

If you want to pay an extra dollar an apple because someone used more expensive 'organic' (tho not all are approved as organic by the FDA & dont always state such) then that's on you. Doesnt commit to the frugality of this site... but that's still your wallet!

My mother carried many windowbox planters in her house for yrs... she'd use the animals 'homemade fertilizer'. Gotta clean out the litter box anyway... why not create a compost?!

Manuer is both a fertilizer and pesticide (due to the amount of urea (bile) in it). Notice how when your dog pees in the same spot every day how the grass dies??
That's why!!!

[homesteadmamma]

If we were to purchase all organic, we'd be freezing (wouldn't be able to pay our heat), have not lights (wouldn't be able to pay our electric) and on and on.

I always remember what Margery said. If you want to go organic eat what you think really needs to be organic (such as some of the fruits from other countries) and the rest wash well!!!

Organic prices here are astronimical in Canada.

My garden though is totally organic. I use no pesticides nor fertilizer of any kind. I let nature take its course. I also purchase as much organic as I can at farmer's markets and locally grown operators. I buy organic when I can afford the price of the item.

One thing I've found that has improved our health even better than buying organic and that is grinding my own grain (organic of course). Since we've done that and moved to the country, we have seldom been sick. Even dh and dd's asthma has improved!!

[Mamawolf]

I think it also depends on what you are buying. I noticed that the article used the most processed foods he could find to do a comparison with. They SHOULD have done a price somparison using the exact same ingredients, not a price comparison between freezer meals and organic chicken.

[QuilterMom]

Originally posted by ssn01

Doesnt commit to the frugality of this site... but that's still your wallet!

I disagree hugely with you here. Just because I buy organic does NOT mean I am not frugal and I don't like the implication. I do what I feel is right for my family and find the best prices. That's being frugal!

You do what you feel you need to do for your family and I'll do what I feel I need to do for mine. Just because I don't agree with you does not mean I am wrong.

[QuilterMom]

Originally posted by homesteadmamma


I always remember what Margery said. If you want to go organic eat what you think really needs to be organic (such as some of the fruits from other countries) and the rest wash well!!!

I completely agree! There's no way we (my family) can be 100% organic. Prices make it impossible.

[TanyaMT]

I buy organic often, especially certain things where the skin is eaten or are heavily sprayed (strawberries come to mind this season).

However, I find the article at bit flawed as one way he got the totals to come out is to switch from soda to water for the drinks and eliminate at desert each evening (ice cream bars in the original). That seems to be not a quite true comparison. Some people may still eat organic and buy drinks or deserts (or make them from organic fruits).

However, organic sometimes isn't much more or equal in price here and I do buy it. Somethings are 4x the price of nonorganic though and I just can't justify the cost. This is especially true when I make a round to a couple local fruit stands (locally grown but not organic).

We probably buy 50/50 anymore and always buy organic milk because my son drinks so much of it and I prefer that.

[Mamawolf]

Originally posted by QuilterMom
I disagree hugely with you here. Just because I buy organic does NOT mean I am not frugal and I don't like the implication. I do what I feel is right for my family and find the best prices. That's being frugal!

You do what you feel you need to do for your family and I'll do what I feel I need to do for mine. Just because I don't agree with you does not mean I am wrong.

Most times, eating more organics is being frugal. You reduce the amount of sickness which in turn reduces sick days where you don't make any money, and eliminates doctors visits and medications which costs mega bucks!

[forestdale]

sue, I found your argument convoluted and confused.

Your own opinions are never "fact", even if they are based on "facts". They are a mish-mash of bits and pieces you put together in your own mind. You might have read empirical research based on "facts" but when you interpret them and experess them as opinion, they change from being "facts" to being opinions, just like everyone else's opinion.

I agree with you that taking antibiotics and some other drugs may weaken some people's immune systems and I agree that exposure to bacteria (and some viruses and other pathogens) can strengthen an immune system. But that doesn't exptrapolate into this statement of yours" "The more we eat foods that have fewer "pesticides" & fertilizers (ok so many are harmful... but I'm talking the basics... maneur, e.g.) - the more likely we are to get sick."

A pesticide is a sustance that will kill a pest - usually a pest is a bug, spider, grasshopper etc. It kills it because it generally contains a poison. If you eat food that's been sprayed with a pesticide often the residue from the pesticide remains on or in the food, and you ingest it too. This is NOT a good thing, despite what you think. Pesticides do not kill bacteria.

Also, when you state this: "What strengthens an immune system?? BACTERIA! So why get rid of it all when eventually we'll have so much susceptibility to so many strains of bacteria"
It's extremely dangerous to ingest most bacteria, yes some bacteria won't harm us, but would you knowingly ingest salmonella or E coli? They won't strengthen your immune system, they'll weaken it, and worse.

I grow organic vegetables in my back yard and I never let my animals go into the garden. I use poultry manure, from my own organic chickens, in the compost that I will eventually put on the vegetables but I would never consider putting pesticides, herbicides or any meat eating animal manure on my garden. That would defeat the purpose of growing organically.

You said in another thread that your health is suffering and has been for months. I'm 56 years old and have not been sick in years. I eat mostly organic food and I believe that's why I'm so healthy. Maybe you should try it.

[hollyhill]

I just want to point out that there are many reasons to choose Organic whenever possible. I also want to explain what a pesticide is.

There are 3 main kinds of pesticides.
a)herbicides (kills weeds)
b) fungicides (kills molds etc)
c) insecticides (kills insects)

There are examples of safe and unsafe chemicals in each of these categories but the most dangerous are nerve toxin insecticides.
Insect nerves are the same as ours and if it kills them it is definately damaging to us. The best insecticides are those which target insect hormones which causes the insect to molt. We don't molt so it is not as damaging to mammals.
Nerve toxins are the most dangerous for the applicator (farmer) for obvious reasons and they are still used in north america but they are used extensively in Mexico and South America.

This comes to the reasons to choose Organic whenever possible.
It is healthier for you and your children but also the environment. It saves bees, butterflies, birds and fish.
It keeps our air and water pure.

Through carefull shopping you can often buy organic produce for the same price (sometimes less) than regular. Here many mainstream stores also stock organic produce and will have them on sale......So use your price book.

That combined with organic whole grains can combine to very healthy eating and a healthy planet.

I am the 1st to admit that we can not always choose organic (my Dh is a student) but when we have a choice it can be considered a form of environmental charity.

Before I had children I worked with Agricultural Scientists and I have a degree in entomology. So yes, I do have some background on this topic.