Garden planning... help?

**ACEHearts** · 01-07-2006, 04:17 PM

Ok, I'm still working on planning out my garden. In the event I can't get land from the field, I need to see what I can get out of the garden realistically. My garden is approx 30x30. I'm really concerned that isn't big enough. My DH is of the opinion that I should just buy produce to can, but I'm afraid that without some reliable supplementary income that won't be possible, so I'm determined do do as much as possible at home.

So, I know I need to devote a lot of space to tomatoes and peppers. Those are the biggies since so much of my "to can" list is tomato based. Approximately how much square footage should I allow for each tomato, based on the fact that they *will* be staked up?

I'm also wondering about placement in the garden. I didn't plan anything last year due to baby, so the last time I had a garden was 2 yrs ago. The garden was spread very thoroughly with chicken compost (very well rotted!) and shavings after that garden, then plowed. We had the garden plowed again this fall even though nothing but weeds grew. Do I have to worry about where my tomatoes were planted 2 yrs ago in planning this years garden, or can I just plant whereever? I'm trying to avoid having short things behind tall things in the garden, and normally plant north/south (though east/west may be better as the garden gets most of its sun in the afternoon.

ARGh.. I think I'm over thinking??? Am I? I'm just getting so bogged down with the simple things.

Just going to post and walk away.. see if anyone can make sense of this! LOL!!!!

Cindy

**Valerie in WA** · 01-07-2006, 05:33 PM

With a year to lie fallow, I wouldn't worry about exactly where the tomatoes were 2 years ago. A more experienced gardener may have another thought. I also plant short stuff to the south and west and tall stuff to the north and east.

According to Square Foot gardening, a staked tomato plant needs a 2x2ft space. I had one (HUGE) staked tomato plant last year and it did okay in it's space, but if I had placed several every 2 feet they would have run into each other & been hard to get between.

HTH!

**canadian gardener** · 01-07-2006, 05:33 PM

Cindy these are some very good questions.

First off, you need to look at Square Foot Gardening by Mel Bartholemew.

Most libraries have a copy. I love his system, and he has the closest interplantings and has them all figured out for the french intensive method which gets the most bang for the buck as it were.

It is also one of the easiest ways to look after a garden space, and I see that you have a small child so this might be one to use in planning that space wisely.

I have a copy upstairs, I'll have a peek and see what he says. It's the finest low work veggie garden method I've ever come across and it's been my "bible" for veggie gardening ever since.

**ACEHearts** · 01-07-2006, 06:11 PM

Thanks Valerie and Margery! I am looking to see if the library has that book now so I can check it out.

And I have 3 kids, 6, 3 and 7mos.. so anything that makes the garden easier is a bonus! LOL! Luckily (so far) the baby is a very easily contented baby that lets me get lots done. Lets hope that contiues at least a little ways into the summer! LOL!

Cindy

**owiebrain** · 01-08-2006, 12:40 AM

Have I got a solution for you!

Pack your little behind up and move down here, right next to your bestestest internet buddy in the whooooooole world!

I'll give ya a couple of acres to till up and give you plenty of time to fondle and bond with my seed stash.

No? Fine. Be that way. :p

On the rotation thing, don't worry about it. With smaller gardens, there's not a whole lot of benefit in rotating because of pests because, well, it's a small area. They travel fast.

For soil depletion, rotation is a good idea but nothing to stress over horribly if you feed it properly (your giant piles of composted chicken manure). So, yeah, rotate beans and maters, etc, when you can but don't stress it if you miss a year here and there.

**ACEHearts** · 01-08-2006, 03:33 AM

Ohh... Diane.. if you were about 8 hours closer.. I'd have already been for a visit

Gotta get these kids of ours started on that arranged marriage thing

Good to know about the rotation. I always make sure when planting my tomatoes to have some milk powder in the holes as I transplant, since calcium deficiency is the biggest issue I've run into. I'll just keep adding from the heaps of composted chicken manure, along with the garden composter and whatever my little worm bin can provide, and go from there!

Cindy

**forestdale** · 01-08-2006, 04:09 PM

Cindy, I agree with what the ladies have said. For your calcium deficiency you could also use finely crushed egg shells, it works well.

With your garden planning, I'd work out what you buy from the store now. Make a list of all the fruit and vegetables you currently buy. That is your potential planting list. But first, go through the list and cross out anything you can get free or cheap locally.

I take it "a cave up north" means northern america where the climate is warm in the summer and snowing in winter. If so, I'd also cross off things that will take a long time to grow - like onions and potatoes.

I'd concentrate more on fast growers and things you want a lot of because you want to can them. So tomatoes, peppers, beans, peas for canning. Zuchinnis, eggplant and small squash because you can eat them fresh and they grow fast. Also salad veg like lettuces, cucumbers, rashishes. Herbs like parsley, chives, oregano, thyme, rosemary etc., because they jazz up other food when they're fresh, and you can dry them for winter.

What about some orange trees for the kids? If you get snow, you can grow one in a big container that you bring indoors when it snows. Homegrown citrus is much better than the store bought stuff.

**ACEHearts** · 01-08-2006, 08:12 PM

Hi Rhonda,

I posted the list of what I want canned/frozen from the garden this year in the Frugal Food 2006 thread. I will be buying onions, except for some bunching onions that will be in my "salad" plots. My "cave up north" is in Southwestern Ontario, so yes, hot summer, and snow in winter (icky white stuff outside right now! LOL!).

I am giong to put in potato cages like you have. They do grow well here and with a few cages we'll get at least a few months worth, and there is nothing as good as fresh potatoes from the garden... mmm...

As for produce we buy regularily... we don't. I just don't buy much except celery and carrots for basic cooking. We don't eat a lot of fruit, though I'm working on bringing that amount up. This year is due to be a good one for our pear tree (it does very well ever other year for some reason), so I'm working on getting through our current stash of canned pears from 2 yrs ago.

So right now what I'm planning for the garden are the following:
tomatoes.. lots and lots and lots of tomatoes, plum, beefsteak, regular, cherry.
Peppers, both sweet and chili
Beans, pole and bush, green and wax
Cucumbers - I've got seeds for a "patio pickle hybrid that apparently does very well in tighter conditions, will also plant some slicing if I have room
Zukes - gotta try these again, last time my zukes got infested
Squash - winter storage
Carrots - again winter storage, but may skip because they are inexpensive to buy
Snow Peas, brocolli (maybe) and salad containers for both home and our trailer.

I've already talked to DH and he seems open to putting a bed along the west side of the house that gets full sun all afternoon and would do well for growing things. If I can get field space I'll put some of my cukes, zukes, squash and maybe corn there.

I'm working on getting the square foot garden book... but need to get through some of the other books I currently have out from the library!

Dang, did any of that make sense?? Diane kept me up late last night chattin'

Cindy

**ACEHearts** · 01-08-2006, 08:18 PM

Oh, and I have an herb garden that I started a couple years ago. It got sadly neglected last year (as everything did), but I'm planning on expanding and moving some things around this year as well.

**forestdale** · 01-08-2006, 09:55 PM

It sounds like a great plan, Cindy. I wish you a great crop in your growing season.

You could also plant your herbs in pots to save garden space. I'm doing that with everything but the parsley, chives and comfrey. You should try to get some comfrey. It's very high in nitrogen and makes a wonderful organinc liquid fertilizer.