If you had to pick a time in pioneer life, what time period would it be?

[suki]

There were some outstanding, outspoken women... but they were the minority, not the norm by any means. It did, after all take until 1920 for the 19th Amendment to be ratified and bring the vote to women in the US.

Willa Cather's college education was extremely rare for the day. She led a reclusive life and was oft criticized for her bold writing.

And, Mary Ann Evans had to use the pen name George Eliot to be published and taken seriously during the time.

Perhaps, it wasn't all oppression... but it certainly wasn't teeming with outspoken, liberated women who were unafraid to share their views.

[fuzzybunny]

Well, I see we take different views of history

"Willa Cather's college education was extremely rare for the day. She led a reclusive life and was oft criticized for her bold writing"

I would argue that her college education was not "extremely" rare for the day. Many more women were attending college during this time and while she was criticized for her writing, she still won the Nobel Prize. No easy task for anyone and certainly not achievable for someone whose work is being blackballed or unjustly criticized on a large scale due to her sex. I personally suspect "bold" was code for those would not just come out and say she was most likely a lesbian who liked to wear men's clothes and be called William. I suspect her “reclusive” life was also a direct result of this and not because people refused to take her writing seriously due to her sex.

"Mary Ann Evans had to use the pen name George Eliot to be published and taken seriously during the time"

She did use the pen name initially because she thought she would be taken more seriously, however someone tried to take credit for her first novel Adam Bede, which had become a huge bestseller. At that point she revealed her identity as the author in a newspaper. She went on to publish her greatest works under the name George Elliott but at that point it was fairly common knowledge the actual author was Mary Ann Evans. The literary elite of the day were also aware that she was living openly with another woman’s husband but it didn’t generally stop them from having her in their social circle and praising her books.

"but it certainly wasn't teeming with outspoken, liberated women who were unafraid to share their views"

I would say it was not populated with "outspoken, liberated" women as we use the words today; however it was quite well populated with very smart bold women who made a huge difference in their world and ours, many of whom would have disagreed vigorously with anyone who characterized them as "oppressed". I suspect some would even argue that we are the more oppressed group.

Just for fun here is a brief list I threw together of important women who lived in, or primarily in, the Victorian era. I put in their dates a few accomplishments in case anyone is interested in further reading. I do love history!

Florence Nightengale (1820 – 1910) – Nurse, writer, statistician
Mary Seacole (1805 – 1881) Multiracial British nurse and Crimean war hero
Elizabeth Garrett Anderson (1836 -1917) Physician and feminist, first British female doctor
Elizabeth Blackwell (1821 – 1910) first woman doctor in the United States (1849)
Charlotte, Anne and Emily Bronte –(various) Authors
Elizabeth Barrett Browning – (1806 – 1861) Poet
Christina Rossetti – (1830 – 1882) - Poet
Maria Dalle Donne (1778 – 1884) Doctor of medicine and philosophy, Chair of obstetrics at Bologna University
Sophia Germain (1776 – 1831) Mathematician, developed theory of Elasticity making modern construction possible.
Alice Fletcher (1838 -1923) Ethnoligist, archaeologist, agent for US government Bureau of Indian Affairs
Louisa May Alcott –(1832 – 1888) Author, Feminist
Marie Curie (1867 – 1934) Nobel Prize winning scientist
Harriett Beecher Stowe –(1811 -1896) Author and abolitionist
Isabella Beeton -Author
Jane Addams (1860 -1935) – Charter member of NAACP and 1st American woman to win Nobel Peace Prize
Susan B. Anthony (1820 – 1906)– Abolitionist, Feminist
Ida B Wells Barnett (1862 – 1931) – educator, Founder of NAACP
Clara Barton (1821 – 1912) – Founder of the Red Cross
Belle Boyd (1844-1900) – Confederate Spy
Margaret “Molly”Tobin Brown aka the Unsinkable Molly Brown (1867 – 1932)
Mary Ann Shadd Cary – (1823 – 1893) African American Journalist
Carrie Chapman Catt (1859 -1947) Feminist, found of the League of Women Voters
Mary Elizabeth Bowser (1839 - ?) African American Spy for the Union
Marie LaVeau (179? To 1863?) Voodoo Queen/herbalist
Jenny Lind (1820-1887) Opera Star
Biddy Mason (1881 – 1891) Buisness woman, first African American woman to own land in California
Maria Mitchell (1918 – 1889) Astronomer, Professor and first female member of the American Academy of arts and Sciences
Mary Ludwig Hays McCauley (1754 -1832) Physically supported Continental Army during American Revolution
Annie Oakley (1860 -1926) marksman and 19th century superstar
Elizabeth Cady Stanton (1815 – 1902) First president of the National Woman’s Suffrage Association
Susan McKinney Steward (1948 – 1918) First African American female doctor in New York state
Anne Sullivan, (1866 – 1936) Helen Keller’s teacher
Helen Keller (1880 – 1968) Author and activist
Susie King Taylor (1848 – 1912) African American nurse during the cival war
Sojourner Truth (1797 -1883) African American abolistionis, Civil War nurse, feminist
Harriet Tubman (1820? – 1913) Conductor on Underground Railroad, army scout, feminist
Elizabeth Van Lew (1818 -1900) Conductor on Underground Railroad, abolitionist in the south
Madame CJ Walker, (1867 -1919) African American female millionaire and philanthropist
Mary Edwards Walker (1832 – 1919) Civil War prisoner, doctor and only women to ever receive the Medal of Honor
Williamina Fleming (1857 – 1911) Astronomer at Harvard University, curator of observatory collections
Caroline Lucretia Herschel (1750 – 1848) Astronomer, possibly first British woman to receive a salary from the Government and gold medal winner from the Royal Society for her catalog of work which is the basis of modern astronomy catalogs today. Received awards from Kings of Denmark and Prussia, first woman named to the Royal Astronomical Society.
Sofia Kovalevskia (1850 – 1891) Mathematician, PhD, Profesor at the Academy of Sciences in St Petersburg and University of Stockholm. Her theories formed a basis for some of Einstein’s later work.
Henrietta Swan Leavitt (1968 – 1921) Discovered Period – luminosity relation of Cepheid variable stars i.e. the math that allows us to measure distances in space.
Lady Augusta Ada Byron Lovelace (1815 -1851) Considered the first computer programmer.
Jeanne Villepreux-Power (1794 -1871) naturalist, Invented the aquarium
Lucy Taylor Hobbs (1933 – 1910) First American woman dentist.

[miss_thrifty]

I would have to say 1800's -to late ones. i would of wanted to be the first to see the land as it was before.

[suki]

Yes, I suppose we do take different views on the history. I too have studied it extensively. As I stated before, I find it fascinating. Isn't it unfortunate that more of our public education does not teach more women's history?

By the way, do you know in which year Willa Cather was awarded the Nobel Prize? (hint: it was post-Victorian era and after women received the right to vote.)

I still believe strongly that the average woman was oppressed. I am thankful for the women who rose above that oppression and sought the liberation we enjoy today.

And, I still would not want to live in the pioneer time period for many reasons, including the lack of rights available to women of the time.

[krissyre]

I think a lady from that era would tell us that we ARE living the simple life now. Light at the flick of a switch, cooking done in minutes, laundry done in less than a full day... she'd be in awe!

One of the most interesting parts of the Frontier House series was when one of the men was convinced that he had some kind of medical condition or vitamin deficiency that was causing him to lose weight. His wife insisted that they bring a doctor on the show to evaluate him because you could see all of his ribs, and she was convinced that wasn't natural! As I recall, she actually bent the rules and attempted to "barter" with some neighbors who weren't on the show, just so that she could get the man a steak, because she was so worried.

And, of course, when the doctor examined him, he was pronounced to be in excellent shape, probably the best physical condition of his life, as a result of all the wood-chopping and fence-mending, etc. It's just that we're used to seeing people with extra weight on their bones because of the more sedentary lifestyles that we lead today.

I know that I, myself, would not be up to it, even though I love the idea of a more family-focused, slower-paced life.

I think I'd like the early 1900s (like the 20's and 30's) better.

[wisteria]

I do not want to go back in time rather to go forward 100 yrs.to2108 .I want to see what the world will be like without dependence on oil. I want to see and experience the day to day life of ordinary people; what jobs they do that aren't even invented yet. I would like to see how my future great grand kids are doing.I want to know if man ever found out how to live in peace.The past is history. I would love to peek into the future because in my own life I have more past than future

[qtkitty]

Personally i think that the clothes would have been the major setback for me... i don't think i could have worn all those layers running around doing all the chores... i mean come on they had 20 layers of stuff on.. thats a fire hazard waiting to happen.

It is no wonder so many women died back then.

Not to mention the corcetting .. which i think was some of why women and their children were lost in childbirth.. because of the constriction that had already went on in their bodies.

[suki]

Good point! I hadn't even thought of the clothes. Yep, corsets were a torture device for women!