Questions about amounts of bulk foods to order.

**Valerie in WA** · 09-07-2005, 04:11 PM

I have lots of questions. I looked at the link that forestdale/Rhonda posted for a preparedness calculator, but some of the suggested amounts seemed very high or very low.

My purpose in ordering bulk foods is to obtain organic foods for a better unit price. My goal is for the order to last about 6 months. Would you be willing to look at some of these numbers and see if they seem reasonable? We are two adults and two children.

*Dry milk powder 10lbs (half for cooking/baking, half to reconstitute and make yogurt).
*Whole wheat pastry flour 25lbs, plus unbleached white flour 25lbs. (I use these mixed 50/50. I figured a cup a week for Dad's Saturday morning pancake breakfast, 2 cups for a dozen muffins, 4-5 cups for a loaf of bread to accompany a meal and a pizza crust. We use store-bought whole wheat bread for sandwiches and toast.)
*25lbs rolled oats (My dd's eat oatmeal at least 3x/wk for breakfast, plus I occasionally make cookies, granola, or granola bars)
*Beef bones

they offer 3-4lb packages of organic beef bones. I'd like to use these to make tasty broth/stock so dh doesn 't realize how little meat is actually in the food. But how much can you make from a 3-4lb package? Any guesses? Does that sound like a LOT of bones?
*Sugar, well actually organic evaporated can juice crystals. I use sugar in tea daily, to bake muffins weekly, plus the occasional cookies, etc. I'm thinking 25lbs, but wonder if I should get 50lbs.

If you're curious, these are the other things I'm buying (organic unless specified otherwise): aluminum-free baking powder (non-organic), buttermilk powder, cornstarch, tapioca pearls, pinto beans, white beans, kidney beans, yogurt starter (non-organic), soy flour, chicken feed (for my egg-laying ducks), pearl barley, applesauce, peanut butter, GMO-free canola oil, non-hydrogenated shortening, whole wheat elbow macaroni, ground beef, whole turkey (10-14lbs), whole chickens (20lbs total). I'm also getting some fresh organic produce to can for the winter.

I'm nervous because this is so much cash to part with at one time. My order will about $450. My typical monthly budget is about $400, but I hope this will cover most of what we need. We will still need fresh milk, some produce (I have a cold frame this year, so hope to grow salad stuff, and already have a lot in the freezer), cheese, store-bought bread, lunch stuff for dh (chips, crackers, pop), etc.

So any thoughts or suggestions you can share would be much appreciated. I'm not used to dealing in such volume.

**homesteadmamma** · 09-07-2005, 06:50 PM

I would change a few things.

Dry powdered milk, I'd add a bit more I think. You use it quite a bit. Maybe another 5 - 10 lbs.

3-4 lbs. isn't a whole lot. You'd probably have enough though to make up a few batches of soup. Be careful though because usually the price you pay for bones isn't worth it. What I do is use chicken bones, a bit of turkey cooked up or even a bit of beef sliced off a roast and I even use bones from steak (when we have it). Beef bones here are ridiculous in price.

Twenty lbs. of sugar usually lasts me about 4 months. In every recipe I bake, I cut the sugar back by at least a 1/4, sometimes 2/3's even (except bread and I use honey for that).

Its hard to tell what other families might use. The best bet is to get your order and then work from there for your next order. For us, we'd need a larger amount of oatmeal and way more grain. (I grind my own grain.) I wouldn't buy beef bones at all, but as mentioned above use a bit of chicken, turkey or even beef to make stock.

I agree with you that some of the suggested amounts in lists are either much higher than we'd use and some areas too low. I think lists are given to us just as a general idea and we take it from there. You'll also find you'll be adjusting every six months or so. Your kids will eat more/less, you'll bake more/less and so on.

A couple things I didn't purchase enough of a couple years ago:

~rice
~yeast (I buy it in bulk)
~oatmeal
~grain

I adjusted my list and now work from the new list.

HTH

**forestdale** · 09-07-2005, 07:54 PM

You're right to be cautious, that is a lot of money. The problem with starting off bulk buying is that you need to guestimate how much you'll use. All those lists are really meant as a guide, no one knows your family like you do. Remember that your first lot of buying is a learning exercise. When you get to your second time, if you keep notes, you'll have a much better idea what you need.

But generally I think you're on the right track. I agree with CJ and I'd bump up the powdered milk and flour. I've found that there is much less complaining about plain, nutritious food if there's a dessert at the end of the evening meal. For that you generally need flour and milk. I'd also add rice, lentils and split peas.

3-4lb bones won't go far. You'd probably use 1lb in each soup. Have you thought of smoked ham hocks. I'm not sure what you call them there but they're the end bone of a leg of ham. They're generally cheap, they have lots more meat than beef bones and combined with lentils or split peas they make a delicious soup, which my DH and kids love. (Let me know if you want the recipe) Staying on the soups for a minute, have you thought of organic, vegetarian stock powder. The ones available now are very good and not nearly as salty as they used to be. If you pile in the vegetables and barley, a powdered stock soup is almost as good as one made with real stock. It's definiately a good thing to have on hand if you run out of meat bones.

It's good to see you're using buttermilk powder. It's an excellent product to have on hand.

I'm not sure about the sugar. 25lbs would do us for a full year. Are you getting molasses, honey etc? And what about salt?

Are you buying online or do you have an organic supermarket nearby?

**Valerie in WA** · 09-07-2005, 08:41 PM

Thank you both for your thoughtful replies.

I'll think about upping the milk powder. Heaven knows it lasts forever. And doesn't take up too much space.

The beef bones are $2/lb (organic). That's certainly a better price than I've seen for non-organic in grocery stores. Dh is a beef guy, but I don't typically buy any beef besides ground, so I thought that might be a nice concession. Have to think about that more. I also have access to 'soy strips' at the local health food store (in bulk). I bought a handful to try. They are soy protein that look like small pieces of beef - perfect for soups and stews.

I have not heard of the vegetable stock powder. I'll check the mail order company and the local health food store.

I'm really on the fence about the sugar. I rarely use molasses or honey. And I have on hand 32oz of honey - that will last us a year or so. As with dry milk, sugar will last a long time. But I am concerned about storing it safe from pests. More on that in a minute.

I'm not ordering salt. The one pound thing from the grocery store lasts us at least a year. I have on hand PLENTY of rice (I bought a 25lb bag at the warehouse store, but we don't eat it much). I also have plenty of yeast. I got some in bulk locally a while back. It will last months. We do not currently eat lentils or split green peas. If I try to work these into our diet, I would do so in small quantities from the grocery or health food store.

So about pests, we don't currently have any!

However, I'm concerned that I could draw them in with all this wonderful organic food. For smaller items, I like to store them in canning jars. It looks pretty.

For medium-sized items, I have plastic containers with tight fitting lids. I have four of the largest and they will hold a 10lb bag of flour. I also have a few smaller ones. Obviously all this flour, sugar and oats won't fit! I also have plastic storage totes (not intended for food storage) that I'm thinking I can put opened or unopened bags into. I suppose I could go crazy with ziploc bags too. I don't have a good idea of how much space this stuff will occupy. Actually, I do remember that I bought a 25lb bag of flour once. I put it, still in it's package, into a storage tote - after freezing it for 24-48 hrs to kill any bugs.

This company I'm ordering from does sell 5 gallon pails that are intended for food storage. They are $4.80 (USD) each. Think I should buy a couple? Do you know how much flour or sugar would fit in a five gallon pail?

Okay, and, finally, I'm ordering this stuff from www.azurestandard.com. They service the western US by truck delivery (free with a minimum order)!

I also have a local health food store with some great items. However, there is more selection and prices are much better for ordering in bulk. For instance organic rolled oats at the health food store are 99c/lb. Thru the bulk company it is only costing 54c/lb. I consider that a significant price difference.

**homesteadmamma** · 09-07-2005, 09:55 PM

Flour and sugar can be frozen for any length of time. Just remember to take it out a couple hours before baking.

I don't store my sugar in the freezer though. I have a 5 gallon pail and I keep it in there. I've never had any bugs in my sugar.

My grain is frozen as is any flour I've ground up and haven't used. We have high humidity and I just don't want to take a chance.

You know instead of paying that amount for storage pails, do you have a couple bakeries nearby. They usually have 5 gallon pails with great lids and you can get them for a song. When we moved here, I hit the bakery. I bought 5 gallon pails and small pails with tight fitting lids. A 5 gallon pail will hold 20 lbs. of flour or sugar with a bit of room space. I paid 99¢ for my pails.

Also I found large gallon jars at thrift stores and at restaurants. I used bleach and hot water to wash them good and then put them outside in the sun. I store all my roll oats and pasta in those. I only wish I could find some more. You just need to be careful that they don't have pickles inside because often you can't get that smell out no how.

**jlxian** · 09-08-2005, 09:18 AM

Just wanted to say HOW INTERESTING this thread is! Thanks for the discussion.

**Valerie in WA** · 09-08-2005, 02:19 PM

Wahoo!!! I called a local bakery and I'm getting five 5-gallon pails for $1 each!! Very cool!. That gives me one each for ww flour, white flour, sugar, oats (25lbs of each), plus I think I'll up the dry milk powder as suggested and use the fifth pail for that. Now I have no worries (about pests that it - I'm still not sure how I'll 'decorate' with 5-gallon pails!

)

**homesteadmamma** · 09-08-2005, 02:35 PM

Valerie, just remember freeze your flour for a couple days before you put it in the 5 gallon pail. Glad you were able to get some pails.

**forestdale** · 09-08-2005, 04:15 PM

Good for you getting those pails. My son is a chef and they buy all sorts of foods in large containers. He said the staff loves it when someone comes around asking for empty containers and bins. It means they don't have to dispose of them, they are recycled and it's a good deal all round. Having said that, I got my pails from the local baker too.

Here is a link to passionfoods. http://www.passionfoods.com.au/
It's an australian organic site. If you go to "Links organic" there is a search facility to find organic websites all over the world. You might find something of interest in your neck of the woods.

Looks like you're on the road to very successful stockpiling. Keep us posted.

**Valerie in WA** · 09-08-2005, 07:24 PM

Okay, I did it! I took a big breath and clicked the link to complete my order! Whew!

I figured that some lurkers might be curious

so I've pasted my order below. The first price is the cost per one item. The second price is my total. For instance for the 4th item, Milk powder, I ordered three, so my total is $71.70. Not everything is right tho. For the beef bones (3-4 pounds), chicken (approx 20 pounds) and whole turkey (10-14 pounds), only the price per pound is listed. My actual total will be about $480 USD.

Code Name
BP005 Baking Powder 10 ozs. 1 $2.05 $2.05
BP141 Buttermilk Powder, Organic 5 lbs. 1 $25.45 $25.45
BP168 Corn Starch, Organic 6 x 8 ozs. 1 $15.00 $15.00
BP139 Milk Powder, Organic (low heat) 5 lbs. 3 $23.90 $71.70
BP181 Tapioca Pearls, Organic 32 ozs. 1 $5.50 $5.50
BE042 Pinto Beans, Organic 5 lbs. 1 $4.25 $4.25
BE092 White Beans, Organic 39 ozs. 2 $3.80 $7.60
BE055 Kidney Beans, Organic 5 lbs. 1 $5.35 $5.35
DP011 Yogurt Strter 30 grams 1 pk. 1 $3.15 $3.15
FL041 Soy Flour, Organic Roasted 5 lbs. 1 $5.95 $5.95
FL047 White Flour, Unbl, Organic 25 lbs. 1 $9.55 $9.55
FL050 Whole Wheat Pastry Flour,Organic 25 lbs. 1 $8.25 $8.25
GP001 Organic Chicken Feed PELLETS 50 lbs. 3 $15.00 $45.00
GR006 Barley, Pearl 5 lbs. 2 $2.00 $4.00
CE231 Oats, Steel Cut, Organic 25 lbs. 1 $13.15 $13.15
GY402 Apple Cinnamon Sauce, Organic 23 ozs. 4 $2.65 $10.60
GY081 Apple Strawberry Sauce 23 ozs. 4 $2.65 $10.60
GY075 Apple Sauce, Organic 23 ozs. 4 $2.65 $10.60
OL003 Canola Oil GMO FREE 1 Gal. 1 $10.05 $10.05
OL029 Shortening, Organic 24 ozs. 2 $4.40 $8.80
MT010 Ground Beef, Organic 6-1# PKS 2 $26.40 $52.80
MT053 Beef Bones Organic 3-4 lbs 1 $2.00 $2.00
MT012 Whole Chickens, Organic-price per lb 4 x 5 lbs.apprx 1 $2.95 $2.95
SW078 Organic Evaporated Cane Juice Crysta 25 lbs. 1 $22.20 $22.20
CH036 Mont Jk w/Hot Pepper, Organic 24 ozs. 1 $8.10 $8.10
CH052 "Montzarella", Organic 24 ozs. 1 $8.10 $8.10
PA007 Elbows, Whole Wheat, Organic 10 lbs. 1 $15.15 $15.15
MT057 Turkey, Organic 10-14 lbs. 1 $2.90 $2.90
NB045 Peanut Butter, Creamy Salted Organic 18 ozs. 2 $3.25 $6.50
Products Total: $397.30
Shipping: No Charge. (Possible exceptions on route "J" and customers in Alaska & Hawaii)
Estimated Total: $397.30

Thank you all again for your help in figuring this out! You gave me the confidence to go for it. (And that tip about getting pails from the bakery was wonderful!) If you didn't already have endless brownie points, I'd nominate you for some!

Well, I'm off to wash my pails out...