Caring for parents...I need blunt advice...

**frugalbabe** · 08-25-2008, 10:08 AM

Originally Posted by C@rol

You IL's are not broke. They have resources, though they are in debt. I believe they can find their own way out of the mess they have made.

Hmm something I hadn't really thought about. I have been itching to get a good detailed look at their financial records so I can get a better feel of the whole picture. I am a practical numbers driven person so I work better if I've got the facts. I think I have gotten so use to just hearing them lament how broke they are. I think its time to do a lot more research.

**Greebo** · 08-25-2008, 10:10 AM

I think if they're expecting you to take care of them, then you have every right to DEMAND to do a full financial review before they get a single penny of assistance.

**mommy4ever** · 08-25-2008, 11:17 AM

Since the technically owe you money, and are expecting you to care for them, you have every right to look at hte bills.

My brother(db2) was ill, and my older brother(db1) was being his financial support. Db1 noticed that he'd give Db2 money and there'd be new furniture, new something or other. The next time Db2 asked for money, Db1 asked what for, and where to send the money to, Db2 adn SIL were insulted and never asked again. They wanted things, but werent' willing to save or work for it. Db2 had MS and was very ill, so it was hard to say no, but there had to be a limit. You have a right to know where your money is going.

I'm sorry you're in this position, but there's still hope. It's a matter of looking everything over and presenting some options to them, and let them see the light.

If they are talking of selling, they need to get things together, and make it presentable as a viable business, not just haphazard sale. The house is mortgaged, it can be sold and paid off, and they move into lower cost housing. Obviously they have been taken advantage of, and it's time to take an active role in their financial matters if YOU are their retirement plan. You can salvage for them what they have. If it means setting upa trust fund to pay their rent, or mortgage on a retirement home, do so. Make it fool proof.

My parents are both into their 60's. I know their house if finally paid off(last year). My mom's health is poor. But dad is robust. Mom inherited everything my grandma had, when sMom sold her house she made $40,000 which she put in savings, plus the cash, antoher $40,000. Dad contracts, and he made a comment that he had to put $40000 into rrsp to avoid paying over that in taxes, so I know they are ok!!

MIL and FIL are doing good to. Mil is 58 and Fil is 63. She has a good retirement fund and is still working, fil has great investments, and is still working and likely will into his 70's though he may slow down before. They have watched his older sister and husband make bad choices. From having an early retirement, to being mortgaged tot he hilt. They've been taken by several scams. MIL and FIL are ever wary of scams.

**C@rol** · 08-25-2008, 11:44 AM

Originally Posted by frugalbabe

Hmm something I hadn't really thought about. I have been itching to get a good detailed look at their financial records so I can get a better feel of the whole picture. I am a practical numbers driven person so I work better if I've got the facts. I think I have gotten so use to just hearing them lament how broke they are. I think its time to do a lot more research.

Exactly!

Think about it. They have a house that can be sold as someone has already mentioned and they can move into lower cost housing.

The have a business that can be sold. Tell your husband that since his father is not well to help to get it in order or prepare for sale the items your FIL says can be sold.

If your FIL is that ill he can apply for SSI or disability if he arranged it for himself.

Look around the house for things that can be sold on ebay or craigslist. Have a garage sale.

They have options, they just want you two to keep them in the lifestyle that they have become accustomed to. That's not you and your husband's job.

**Ebbie** · 08-25-2008, 12:55 PM

Your situation horrifies me. I don't know that I have advice to offer, but it horrifies me that parents would jeopardize their children's financial lives by not planning well for their own retirements. You have every right to be resentful...and I think I would be much more than you are. You used your entire savings to pay for surgery for FIL? Wiped out your savings completely??? I'm...horrified. It just doesn't ring fair to me for someone else to be reckless with their finances all their lives and then use the resources of others who HAVE been careful with money to finance their emergencies.

Really, there are no emergencies in life. People get sick, people lose jobs, people's water pipes burst. This is life and stuff happens! ALL of these possibilities should be planned for with enough financial resources to cover them. So I think your ILs joking that you are their retirement plan is deplorable.

Rather than investigating their finances and having the mindset that you're there to bail them out, why not tell them instead that you won't be able to help them financially so they'd better get their act together now. If they are in their 60s it's not too late. It's not like they're 95 or something. Maybe they just need a wake up call that they need to act like grownups and be responsbile for themselves and that they aren't going to be bailed out.

Sorry if that all seems harsh, if an opposing viewpoints helps, but I'm honestly outraged on your behalf and would just hate to see someone who has worked hard and managed their money lose it to bail out people who mismanaged their financial lives.

**frugalbabe** · 08-26-2008, 11:24 PM

They just seem so very naive or gullibe or maybe just wanting the quick buck. They have already declared bankruptcy once years ago and they asked us to loan them the money for their internet get rich quick thing. We said no and pleaded with them to not sign anything but they did it anyway. Of course now two years later they have not seen a cent from it. It just feels very helpless and like I'm waiting for a huge bomb to fall on my head. That's why I want to take action now.

**Greebo** · 08-27-2008, 11:52 AM

Honey, its admirable what you want to do, but you can't fix their broke habits.

Put your own oxygen mask on first, k?

**heartofmine** · 08-27-2008, 12:14 PM

You have gotten some very good advice. You and your husband need to step in and access everything by looking at the bills and what needs to be done before spending a dime of your own money. I'm sure there is a lot you can do and then you can look into programs that might be able to help out.

We are in a similar mess taking care of my elderly fil but we can't get any type of help. He has savings. Its costing $4000.00 a month just to have someone stay with him during the day and the 2 kids and spouses are having to take every other night staying with him. My poor dh is having to work full time too. We are all exhausted. Fil is 80 and in the last stage of Parkinsons. He can't do anything for himself and has to wear diapers. If we put him in the nursing home they have to sign everything over to them which means if he lives a month or 5 years they'll take everything he's worked so hard for. If he didn't have anything he could get full time round the clock care.

**frugalbabe** · 08-27-2008, 02:37 PM

Originally Posted by Greebo

Put your own oxygen mask on first, k?

Couldn't put it any better myself -- probably the best advice I've gotten.

**Kris B** · 08-29-2008, 11:48 PM

My Mom is so the same way. It makes me so mad. Just because I have been married for 21 years to a wonderful man and she got divorced from my dad after 7 years she seems to think that I have everything together and since my older sister is married to a crazy man who can't even keep a job long enough to get them in the black that I am going to take care of every thing. I don't get it. We have been trying to make sure that we take care of our own future so that we won't be a burdon to our daughter, but my mom has said to other family members that I will be taking care of her. She has had such low self esteem her whole life that she had crap jobs and now she is 65 with NO retirement at all and NO savings at all and she has so much credit card debt and I am supposed to fix it all?!?! Why would you do that to your child? I feel for you. I hope you get some good advise here and I hope that you protect yourself.
I believe that parents should not assume that their kids will take care of all their bad choices. Parents should want better for their kids not to be a burdon to them. That's what I hope to be for my DD. A blessing not a burdon.

**Marie78** · 08-30-2008, 09:16 AM

You have gotten great advice. My grandmother moved in with my mom 8 years ago. Grandma was only 68 years old at the time. She lived simply and saved what she could, but her income was only $1,000 a month from social security. My grandfather died when she was 55 years old and she lived as long as she could on her own. She didn't and doesn't have debt, but she doesn't drive and my mom has to take her to every Dr.'s appt.

My mom has 2 brothers and they don't do anything to help my grandmother. My mom has to dispense all her medicine, makes her dinner every night, takes grandma along on family vacations and outings. Has to wash my grandma's bedding and remind her to bathe regularly. My mom feels like her mother now. It's very frustrating for my mom, but if she hadn't taken grandma in I think her health would have declined quickly without someone making her eat healthy meals and making sure she goes to the Dr. and takes her pills everyday.

Consider all aspects of the IL's moving in with you. You don't want to have to support them a lot financially, but they might also become a huge burden for your family in other areas too. Especially when their health declines more.

**PrairieRose** · 08-30-2008, 09:49 AM

Well, I have to say I have b.t.d.t......and it's not easy. My parents always worked hard, lived frugally and stayed on top of their finances but my mom was always plagued with illnesses which increased and multiplied in her later years. They had insurance but no Rx drug coverage which really cut into their finances. That and the fact that I have a sibling who was a constant financial drain on them for all of 48 years (she had 5 kids and they couldn't let the kids go hungry so to speak). My parents worked after retirement but that last couple of years it became impossible for my mom to do the bookkeeping end of the job she was doing. We stepped in and after having found a fantastic deal on a foreclosure we bought a nice house and moved them into it. The house is ours and will be sold when Dad is gone (we'll make a profit on it as the housing situation in our little town is very tight). My mom only lived 8 months after the move. I need to back up and say that we have spoken to my siblings regarding the situation but since neither of them live near us and my parents and due to the fact that 1 sibling is always in dire straights, we didn't demand or expect much help. My folks were able to manage to live rent free w/almost no financial help. Now that mom is gone, believe it or not that even though her SS is also gone, Dad makes it just fine. He wants for nothing, has all that he needs. He gets his meds through the VA (is a vet) so that is a MAJor help. I take care of his finances and we have a housekeeper through a local service for medical and elderly patients. That's a blessing indeed. (check out home health care for possibilities)

This is a very tough situation but my very best suggestions would be;

a) Start early (like now) figuring out exactly where they stand financially.
b) Begin talking in depth with them about the future and what options there are. (is there a way to run the business at a profit if they hire help? I mean any income beats none, right?)
c) All assets are going to be considerations in the 'big picture' and it should be agreed that if they want your help they have to be willing to make sacrifices as well.
d) Find out what resources are available to you regarding the mental disability of the sibling. If he/she is able to work---make clear the expectations and conditions thereof.
e) Find someone who knows what's what with elder care and social programs and senior living options in your area or even if they need to relocate to a more senior friendly and cost of living friendly area. Take advantage of every program available to you.
f) Do your best to clear their debts by selling off possessions and little odd job income. It can be done, even though it might be very difficult.
g) If it looks like they may need nursing home care and don't want to sell their house---look into a trust or having them to 'sell' the house to you (look into the legalities but sell it to you for $1 or whatever with the agreement that they can live their as long as they need to). The less assets they have in their names the more they are entitled to as far as nursing home care....etc.

Most of all, be prepared as best you can. Talk everything over with your spouse and understand that he probably feels very bad that you're being put into this position. He'd correct the situation if he could but he loves his parents like you love yours (well I'm assuming here....lol) and can't stand for them to live like paupers in the twilight of their life. Things can work out but it's not easy. Read all you can on elder care and coping with being the caregiver. I feel for ya and feel free to pm me anytime. It's a very tough spot. One that's not easily fixed or managed and can go on for a very long time. You have to do your best to make the best of it and do what you have to so you can live with yourself when 'it's over'.........