can i not sell these ?????

**sabrelvssammy** · 03-06-2009, 01:19 PM

so i was talking to a lady today about my garage sale and she said that i CANNOT sell anything for children under 12 that has any type of metal on it (toys or clothes...that includes for clothing-snaps, buckles, buttons, eyelets, clasps.... and toys- anything that is metal or has any metal what-so-ever on it)....

nothing can be painted (toys or clothes...clothes can't have any painted sayings or designs on them... toys- have to be unpainted (plastic or metal)....)

so that pretty much leaves only plastic items that have no decor at all...and plain slip-on clothes....what else is there left????

is this true ??? i know that they talked a few weeks ago about the lead and stuff but i was under the impression that it was not going to apply to items that were being bought second-hand....i thought i remember some discussion here about that....

does anyone know how the law has played out at this point? can we NOT sell this kind of stuff at our garage sale now???

**eanddmom** · 03-06-2009, 01:24 PM

I'm pretty sure your fine. I remember them saying it wouldn't pertain to thrift stores (thank goodness). Just do it I sincerly doubt anyone is going to call the police on you and if they did you can honestly say you didn't know that law went through.

**ArmyOfFive4God** · 03-06-2009, 01:27 PM

Technically- no

However, they keep changing it based on the uproar, we the people have caused. I wouldn't take the chance until you contact the lawmakers to find out exactly what the law is. Maybe you can shoot an anon email from the library or make an anon call from somewhere if you're not interested in giving up your info.

**say_tay** · 03-06-2009, 01:44 PM

Alright, we've hit a nerve... Here's my backstory. In 2006, we discovered that my 2 year old daughter had a lead level of 136. (Normal is under 10, 70 is considered critical) She has the highest level ever recorded where the child did not die. We did not know she was sick. In fact, she was only tested at the suggestion of the health dept receptionist while her baby brother was in for shots. That suggestion saved her life.
I am a very active advocate for lead awareness. I personally know the people involved in making the new laws, most of them being mothers of lead poisoned children. My daughter was even featured in USA Today. www.usatoday.com/news/health/2007-10-28-lead-illinois_N.htm

The law DOES apply to second hand sales, but there is no real enforcement. It is more of a "sell at your own risk" idea. If you sell an item that contains lead paint and a child is poisoned, you can be held responsible. The concept was gather a database of problem brands or items to get them removed from circulation.

If you need any more info contact me: sarah@alphalead.org

**gardening momma** · 03-06-2009, 03:39 PM

I agree that you should be careful about what you sell...perhaps nothing that's really old, or even marked as manufactured in another country. If it was made in the USA it's probably OK, since we've been aware of the problems with lead for some time now.

The things I'd be most concerned about would be things that a child might put in his/her mouth.

The law does allow you to sell any second hand items. But if they are found to have too much lead, then you can get in trouble.

**Momto2Boyz** · 03-06-2009, 04:01 PM

The new laws don't apply to garage sales and selling items on craigslist type places. It is only meant for resale and consignment shops.

The general rule is don't sell anything that is dangerous (at least it is at our garage sales, I always pitch broken, recalled toys, etc.). But garage sales are also buyer beware.

**sabrelvssammy** · 03-06-2009, 05:48 PM

well supposably our SA store is no longer allowed to sell the stuff and the lady was saying that they had to pitch 3 dumpsters full of clothes and toys that were part of it....

i personally don't have any kids stuff to sell coz mine is grown and gone but there will be others there with their own stuff...i mean its their problem anyway but i couldn't believe that ALL that stuff qualified as non-saleable from here on out....that's pretty much everything.....

**Milly** · 03-06-2009, 07:11 PM

The new law doesn't seem to be stopping anybody from selling used kids' clothes on EBay, which I would think would be much more regulated than a yard sale. If EBay doesn't worry, I won't worry.

**gardening momma** · 03-07-2009, 02:07 PM

Originally Posted by sabrelvssammy

well supposably our SA store is no longer allowed to sell the stuff and the lady was saying that they had to pitch 3 dumpsters full of clothes and toys that were part of it....

Someone was probably misinformed or misunderstood the regulations. They may have been going on the original information that none of it can be sold without lead testing to verify that the lead levels are low enough (secondhand stores included). There was a clarification put out a few weeks ago that allows secondhand stores to sell without lead testing. There may have been some further updates since then--I haven't been following it for the last few weeks.

**Nishu** · 03-08-2009, 01:08 PM

Originally Posted by say_tay

Alright, we've hit a nerve... Here's my backstory. In 2006, we discovered that my 2 year old daughter had a lead level of 136. (Normal is under 10, 70 is considered critical) She has the highest level ever recorded where the child did not die. We did not know she was sick. In fact, she was only tested at the suggestion of the health dept receptionist while her baby brother was in for shots. That suggestion saved her life.
I am a very active advocate for lead awareness. I personally know the people involved in making the new laws, most of them being mothers of lead poisoned children. My daughter was even featured in USA Today. www.usatoday.com/news/health/2007-10-28-lead-illinois_N.htm

The law DOES apply to second hand sales, but there is no real enforcement. It is more of a "sell at your own risk" idea. If you sell an item that contains lead paint and a child is poisoned, you can be held responsible. The concept was gather a database of problem brands or items to get them removed from circulation.

If you need any more info contact me: sarah@alphalead.org

Your daughter was eating paint chips. I don't mean to be an jerk but how exactly is selling used clothing "hitting a nerve"?

I still maintain that this law is poorly written and will do more harm than good.

To answer the original question...

There are two parts of the law- the one that requires testing and the one that will ban the sale of items that exceed the lead limits. Secondhand items are exempt from the testing. Technically, you're not allowed to sell anything that exceeds the limits so the standard response is 'don't sell anything that you think may not be safe.'

Off the record- no one's going to enforce yard sales. What it comes down to is you shouldn't sell things that have been recalled or things that you think may not be safe for kids. I doubt you would have sold items that you know are unsafe anyway. What it comes down to, in my opinion, is that those of us with children who have a history of mouthing or eating toys should be sure that the things around them are safe.

**say_tay** · 03-09-2009, 11:36 AM

Originally Posted by Nishu

Your daughter was eating paint chips. I don't mean to be an jerk but how exactly is selling used clothing "hitting a nerve"?

No, my daughter was not poisoned by a toy, but I could give you the names of about 20 other Mom's who could tell you their child was..

What hits a nerve, is that I {along with many others} have spent countless hours working to get stricter lead laws passed to keep our children safer, only to have people complain. Is the $2.00 for that used toy worth risking a $20,000 hospital stay, and years of special education? If you aren't sure... don't risk it.

Did you know that lead is not strictly a "made in China" problem? TY Inc. {the beanie baby company} just got in trouble for refusing to recall dolls found to contain lead paint. They met Federal Standards, but not Illinois' stricter standards. They settled by only pulling the dolls of Illinois' shelves. So that beanie baby bought in Missouri, may contain lead. Don't even get me started on Mattel!

On a positive note, the non-profit I help with is getting prepared to put out a "Lead-Free Toy List". So by Christmas, toys that we test, that contain zero lead, (federal government allows 'some') will be labeled "ALPHA-Approved." Also, this list will be out there for reference to re-sale shops. Sorry for the inconvenience in the mean time.. Actually, no I will not apologize for trying to make the world safer for my child.

**Nishu** · 03-09-2009, 02:06 PM

People are complaining because it's a stupid law that's adding to an already overly regulated market and threatening to destroy small businesses. The amount of money and time that's required to meet these standards is absolutely ridiculous in the face of problem.

The CDC survey found that 6 per cent of white children were over the ``at-risk'' threshold in 1988 - 91, not 40 per cent. And given the steady decline in lead levels during the last few decades, the number is probably 4 to 5 per cent now. So the chairman of the government's leading expert advisory group on lead poisoning has committed himself in print to an estimate that exaggerates the extent of the problem by eight to ten times. Furthermore, 10 micrograms per deciliter is a ridiculous standard for lead poisoning. The alarmists claim there is compelling evidence of serious damage to IQ and brain development in children at this level. To her credit, Jane Brody cited a couple of the research groups that have found no such evidence, including a British - Australian team led by Stuart Pocock of the Medical Statistics Unit at the London School of Hygiene, and Claire Ernhart, a child psychologist at the Case Western Medical School in Cleveland. Using the 10-microgram standard, 88 per cent of American children in the late 1970s and about 99 per cent in the 1950s suffered from lead poisoning. If we use a 25-microgram standard, the internationally accepted and pre-1991 U.S. definition, the share of white children ``poisoned'' in 1988 - 91 would be 0.4 per cent. By that measure, Dr. Rosen's estimate is a hundred-fold exaggeration. But why is Rosen emphasizing white children? After all, black children are more at risk, since they are more likely to be poor, to suffer from malnutrition, and to live in houses with crumbling lead paint. Linking the problem to white children, however, helps drum up votes in Congress for more lead-abatement money, more CDC money, and more lead-research money. With any luck, members of Congress and their overworked staffs won't bother to check the numbers.

http://findarticles.com/p/articles/m...47/ai_16929578

I'd like to get hard statistics on the amount of lead poisoning that actually occurs due to toys and all other products intended for children under 12, but I can't come up with them.

http://children.webmd.com/news/20070...oning-and-kids

"Parents need to know it is not an acute problem," Benitez tells WebMD. "If a kid just touches and plays with a lead painted toy, it is not a problem. But if that child sits and chews on it for weeks and months and absorbs lead -- that becomes a risk."

I find it infuriating. If you're so concerned about the welfare if children then by all means- advocate. Teach and inform and run (privately funded) public service announcements or whatever it is that tickles your pickle... but trying to legislate every damn thing under the planet isn't going to help anyone in the long run.

Do I think a 2 dollar toy is worth poisoning my kid? Absolutely not. But I don't see the small potential benefit as being worth the economic and sociological implications of such a ridiculously far reaching law.

I'm sorry, but if you honestly believe that testing the snaps of a pair of jeans meant for a child that's 10 years old is really going to protect any children, then you are, pardon my bluntness, in absolutely no position to be trying to inspire changes in public policy. The classic story of the stay at home mom turned lobbyist, the one without much of a formal education and no experience in public affairs or public policy, is great for Lifetime TV and Redbook. It's not so great for our country.

I'm sorry about what happened to your little girl- I truly am. But they sell home lead testing kits at Lowe's for about 5 bucks. (I know- I've bought them before when we got our first lead paint notice.)

**say_tay** · 03-09-2009, 03:35 PM

Don't be sorry for my daughter, I don't want or need your pity. I don't advocate to save my child, her brain damage is irreversible. I advocate to save YOUR children.

BTW... The racist nature of the article you posted is disgusting. You perpetuate the main " lead poisoning only happens to low income, inner city black kids" stereotype we 'stay at home mom lifetime, redbook lead activists' are trying to fight. I won't spend forum space pointing out the numerous errors in the article you posted, but trust me 99% of that article is either incorrect or distasteful.

The lack of compassion and ignorance in your post show me that we "activists" have a long long way to go.

**Nishu** · 03-09-2009, 04:57 PM

So it's racist to suggest that lead poisoning tends to affect inner city kids... but it's not racist to suggest that I should care about lead poisoning because it doesn't just affect inner city kids? How does that work?

Let me ask you something- an honest question, not trying to be an ass- were you not notified when you moved into that home that there may be lead paint in it? We've always been notified when there may have been lead paint in our homes and it's been up to me and mine to take precautions. Demanding that congress force taxpayers to pay for the removal of lead paint in all homes would strike me as a tad too entitled.

**say_tay** · 03-09-2009, 05:10 PM

Race should not be a factor in lead poisoning. More inner city kids test positive for lead poisoning because a higher percentage of inner city kids are tested. Give me a few hours and I can provide statistics to back this up.

No, I was NOT informed that the house may contain lead. We did inform the landlord of the chipping paint and offered to paint it ourselves at our own cost. He refused to allow us, stating he did not want to raise propery taxes. We lived in ignoranant bliss. After all, I am a college educated, middle-class white woman, living in rural america. There were no lead awareness programs in my community. The Dr hadn't ever mentioned it. I had no idea about lead, until the health dept called and told me that my daughter, who looked perfectly healthy was in critical condition.

The tax-payer cost to assist in abating the lead on that rental home was MUCH less then the tax-payer cost of a $20,000 hospital stay, and 18 years of government funded special education classes.

I have my friends at the CDC looking up the stats on lead poisoning caused by toys for you. You post has caused quite the stir..