Who knows about sewer lines vs. tree roots?

**Daisygirl** · 11-19-2009, 08:37 AM

Through all of my basement sewer flood crisis, I have learned some interesting things. Most importantly there is a great big tree root growing THROUGH my sewer line. Despite the fact that the tree is owned by the city, apparently the root is owned by me.

So preventatively, what are my options?

Here is what I have come up with so far:
~New sewer line exiting the house - very cost prohibitive
~Some chemical they out into the clean out (which is right where the offending root is) that will "dissolve" that portion of the root
~Some chemical they dump in that kills the root and eventually the tree ( geez so then the tree falls on TOP of my house?)
~ Since the evil root is visible from the clean out, having someone auger it and break up the root, sucking the debris out of the line while they do it

Has anyone dealt with this? Is anyone out there a sewer expert of any description? I hate making decisions like this simply based on the opinion of whatever roto rooter dude tells me. I need some INFO please, so I can make an educated decision.

I am worried if I do nothing, that danged root will continue to grow and as there is only a bit of clearance around it now, I will be looking at another loverly flood of sewage. The guy from the city gave me the sage advice of "Just wait and see if it happens again."

**Greebo** · 11-19-2009, 08:48 AM

Ok - first, yes, the root is your problem. It's on your land.

Second - the chemical solution is not very reliable - and it's temporary. You really need either a clean out or a pipe replacement to get rid of the root - THEN if you do a clean out, a periodic chemical treatment will help prevent growback.

BUT - even with a cleanout and regular chemicals, the roots will grow - and the pipe is already compromised.

I'm sorry, but in this case, your BEST solution *is* the expensive one - dig up the lawn, replace the pipe with pvc.

And the city guy is a moron - cleaned out and left alone, of course the root will come back. It's a friggin plant - it grows!

**Daisygirl** · 11-19-2009, 08:52 AM

Greebo, is the PVC resistant to the roots in the future?

**Greebo** · 11-19-2009, 08:56 AM

Yes - the roots can break into clay pipe because it is porous - after all, it's clay - so the roots detect the moisture and can grow in through little cracks. it's also rigid so more prone to breakage.

With PVC, the roots never sense any water/nutrients (yeah gross i know) within, the surface is completely air and water tight, and it's flexible allowing for give in settling, so harder to break.

**sabrelvssammy** · 11-19-2009, 09:15 AM

what is your sewer line currently made of at this point...is it the old clay tile ... or metal piping ????

in our town we have an ordinance that before any home can pass inspection when changing hands the sewer lines must have a camera inserted into them all the way from the clean-out to where they dump into the actual 'city' sewer...then they are inspected for cracks, breaks, tree roots....if there are less than 4 'problem' areas they are then isolated and 'flagged' up on the ground so that we can get to them and replace the sections...

we have had great success with handling the repairs this way on lines that are not 'crumbling' away....and the cost can be minimal at this point...we have had to go both ways though and re-digging a sewer line can be quite costly (upwards of $8000 for one of our homes)....we would have done it ourselves but we connected into the main sewer on a major roadway so we had to have a company come in that was bonded with the state...they had to close the road down and tear into it....so it can become quite a job replacing these......we did all the work to the road though and it is not all that difficult to do...

can you see if your city can 'camera' the line or possibly the roto guy? it is an actual camera that is inserted like a giant snake and you can watch the camera as it slides down through the line (interesting stuff we have seen that has been flushed through the years too...lol).....this way you will know exactly what you are dealing with....

if you can isolate the area you can then have the sections cut out and by using 'boots' they will be able to reconnect to your existing line and as greebo says by using the PVC the root will grow around it in the future instead of thru it....

don't waste your time with the 'chemical' treatment route... even if you kill the root....the hole is still there...thus the water will continue to seep in...probably at an even faster rate coz now there is no 'root blockage' slowing it down....you have to plug the hole one way or another.....

**frugal-fannie** · 11-19-2009, 09:16 AM

Been there done that. It will be back and even with PVC if they mess up with the joint or accidentally crack the PVC. If it has any moisture between pvc pipes the root will be back and fast. So get a warranty on the work.

**Daisygirl** · 11-19-2009, 10:19 AM

Ugh - we are apparently looking at THOUSANDS for the new line - I simply can't afford it. My budget is $500-700. That is every thin dime I can allot to the repair.

I have already had the camera done. The root that will cause the problem is right at the clean out valve, so that portion is accessible. What is my SECOND best option to replacement?

**Greebo** · 11-19-2009, 10:22 AM

Cleanout and repeated chemical treatments and save up for a new line.

**sabrelvssammy** · 11-19-2009, 01:12 PM

Originally Posted by Daisygirl

Ugh - we are apparently looking at THOUSANDS for the new line - I simply can't afford it. My budget is $500-700. That is every thin dime I can allot to the repair.

I have already had the camera done. The root that will cause the problem is right at the clean out valve, so that portion is accessible. What is my SECOND best option to replacement?

so if you have the affected area isolated and you know that the majority of the rest of the line is in good condition why cannot you have a small section removed from the clean out to past the root....?

what would happen is the ground would be dug up to access the line..they would cut the section farthest from the house and place a boot on the existing line...a new pvc pipe would then be layed to replace the damaged all the way to the clean out...you would then have a new clean out because this is made from pvc also and it would be glued to the new pvc pipe...they may also bring in gravel to lay under your new section to create a 'bed'.... that may or not be code for your area....then the dirt would be returned to the ground, and you would have a 'mound' of dirt running the length of your repair to settle throughout the winter... in the spring, smooth over and re-seed.....someone with a backhoe or a mini-trac (which would probably be the preferred piece of equipment if it is a small job and up against the house) and knowing what they are doing would be able to accomplish this in a day or less....

depending on the length that we are talking you may be able to repair this on your budget...pvc pipe is fairly cheap and that includes the clean out...the majority of your expense will be the labor to have the work done....

**Libby** · 11-24-2009, 03:42 PM

Hmmm....too bad I didn't see this thread earlier last week while I was away. I suffered through this however having said that the root went through the sewer pipe portion that belonged to the city - but was on our front lawn. As a result, they dug up the driveway/lawn/sidewalk/road, changed the pipe and lopped off the entire chunk of root that was going through the pipe. The city paid for it all, 100% and even offered to pay to repave 1/2 of our drive that they had to dig up.

As The Avail had called it - my toilet and then shower closet - The Poo Fountain. LOL That's how we came to learn that the tree root went through the sewer pipe.

I'm not sure where the clean out valve is located - I'm guessing that's the portion right in your house as it exits out?

**HandyMom** · 11-26-2009, 01:21 AM

I keep having them come and clean out the roots from the sewer line when it starts to back up. Our problem was not just roots growing into the old clay pipes but things like paper towel and tampons, etc being flushed down the toilet by DD and the junk getting stuck on the roots. I told her again and again about it but she would do it anyway. Each time it cost me $120 to have the plumber come and clean out the sewer line and there would be the evidence he pulled out. Since she quit doing it, I only had to have them come out once in 4 years. I plan on selling the house and letting the next person deal with the problem. It was a problem before I moved in and it was not disclosed to me, either. They estimated it would cost $15,000 to dig up the yard and replace the line. No way I can afford that. I grew up in a house that had water problems in the basement and all our things were destroyed by water. In my house, it's even worse because it's sewage that backs up.

I only saw one other possible solution. I was watching This Old House and they had a sewer problem and a huge old oak tree that they could not cut down to dig up the yard. They found a company that cleaned out the line, put some sort of foam that hardened into plastic and it made a hard shell INSIDE the broken pipe and that prevented the roots from ever growing into the pipes again. No idea what it costs but it had to be a lot cheaper than the $15,000 it would cost me to dig out my yard.

**littleplum** · 11-26-2009, 02:38 PM

Originally Posted by Daisygirl

Ugh - we are apparently looking at THOUSANDS for the new line - I simply can't afford it. My budget is $500-700. That is every thin dime I can allot to the repair.

I have already had the camera done. The root that will cause the problem is right at the clean out valve, so that portion is accessible. What is my SECOND best option to replacement?

Accidentally chop down the tree.

Alternatively, my husband says to accidentally hit the tree once or twice with an axe, and then accidentally spill some Tordon or similar stump killer into the cuts. You may have to have several accidents with the Tordon.