Anyone live off the grid?

**Josephhgoins** · 10-06-2011, 10:50 AM

So I have an acre of land that I want to build a small cabin on for the weekend and holidays. Can anyone recommend a good resource for ideas?

I need plans for the cabin, ideas for water and septic (will probably go with standard well and septic, but maybe there are just as good options?)

Also, power suggestions. For the folks that live off the grid do you prefer solar panels or windmills? Normal power is available, but I just like the idea of not having to worry about a power bill.

I plan on having a wood stove for cooking while I am there, but other suggestions would be appreciated. Maybe also bring a crockpot.

Finally my biggest concern is frozen pipes. What do I do to make sure they don't freeze? I won't be there most of the time, so no way to fire the stove. I thougth about just draining the lines, but I will be staying there occasionally during the week and need to be able to walk in and it be ready. The land is near my family and will be where I stay for reunions, funerals, wedding and when I have to go into the office.

I appreciate everyone's input. I know there are a few that live off the grid and a few others that have great knowledge of it.

My hopes are to be able to use this cabin for the remainder of my life.

**low-1** · 10-06-2011, 11:45 AM

Originally Posted by Josephhgoins

So I have an acre of land that I want to build a small cabin on for the weekend and holidays. Can anyone recommend a good resource for ideas?

I need plans for the cabin, ideas for water and septic (will probably go with standard well and septic, but maybe there are just as good options?)

Also, power suggestions. For the folks that live off the grid do you prefer solar panels or windmills? Normal power is available, but I just like the idea of not having to worry about a power bill.

I plan on having a wood stove for cooking while I am there, but other suggestions would be appreciated. Maybe also bring a crockpot.

Finally my biggest concern is frozen pipes. What do I do to make sure they don't freeze? I won't be there most of the time, so no way to fire the stove. I thougth about just draining the lines, but I will be staying there occasionally during the week and need to be able to walk in and it be ready. The land is near my family and will be where I stay for reunions, funerals, wedding and when I have to go into the office.

I appreciate everyone's input. I know there are a few that live off the grid and a few others that have great knowledge of it.

My hopes are to be able to use this cabin for the remainder of my life.

I have an off-grid cabin on an island. We purchased it, so we didn't build it ourselves, but it is an insulated garage package built on wood footings. We haul water, either up from the lake for general cleaning, hand washing, etc or from town for cooking and drinking. I'd be fine with boiling and filtering, but my wife prefers town water. If I was to stay there for the long term, I would set up a rainwater collection system and a biological sand filter. Might not pass inspection, but I would trust my life with it. In the winter time, we generally have a pot of snow melting on the woodstove. It's significantly more efficient to punch a hole in the ice and collect lake water, but we only recently got an ice auger (won it in a raffle).

Septic, we have an outhouse. We also have a portable camp toilet in the bathroom inside, and it gets used most of the time, then emptied into the outhouse. Again, if it was long term, I would invest in a composting toilet.

For power, you really have to define your "needs" vs your "wants". Our cabin has a 12 volt system with 12 volt fluorescent ballasts. They work very very well when the cabin is warm. When we first get there during the winter, the cabin will usually be around -30 or colder, so we have some LED's we use while the cabin is warming up. We also have kerosene and coleman fuel lamps and lanterns. I prefer to use the electric lights if we can, so we don't stink up the cabin. Plus the coleman lanterns (as well as propane lanterns) are noisy. A lot of friends have plumbed-in propane lights, they work well, but of course require fuel.

Our electric load consists of our lights, a car radio, a 2 way mobile radio for emergency communications (only powered when needed), a set of computer speakers to connect to an MP3 player, as well as a 12 volt bilge pump in a garbage can that provides water for the shower. I have a 12v RV water pump that I plan on connecting to the faucets in the sinks for actual running water.

Regarding your crockpot idea, any device that provides heat from electricity is going to be a huge draw, and you would need a significantly bigger system to provide power for it. Better to have a stew pot on the back of the wood stove.

Our electric system is a 48W panel connected to a charge controller, tied to 3 - 100AH AGM batteries (AGM are much better where freezing temps are a concern). I also have a 400W wind turbine that I have yet to install, but we haven't needed it yet. If you keep your electrical usage low, a battery bank system will work well. If you want to keep living like you do at home with TVs and appliances, it is ALWAYS cheaper to tie to the grid. Batteries have a useful life of about 5 years if you treat them well, then they need to be replaced. If grid power is available, and you use a decent amount of power, you will never pay off a battery-based system.

We have a propane stove and a propane fridge that run off a 100lb tank. Using the cabin on weekends, with the fridge only running for a couple of months in the summer, a 100lb tank will last a little more than a year and cost about $80 to fill. During the winter, a cooler in the porch is our fridge.

We heat with a Woodchief wood stove. It has an automatic damper on it and provides good heat. We also cook on it from time-to-time, and have a barbecue in the porch as well.

Regarding freezing pipes, my understanding is that PEX piping is freeze-tolerant, but the only way to be 100% certain is to drain them. When I do plumb in the RV water pump, it will be surface-mount PEX with draining provisions. That's just a fact of life. We regularly see well below -40 for weeks at a time.

When we get to the cabin, we get the fire going and it takes probably 4 hours or so before it warms up (if it's cold out). It's only about 25 miles from town, so I generally head out, fire up the wood stove and stock it up, then head back and pick up the family to give it a chance to warm up. Our cabin is around 900 sq ft I believe.

I hope that helps.

**Trishagirl** · 10-06-2011, 01:25 PM

We have 1&1/2 acres of land in a subdivision it's quiet out here. We have well water and septic. We'd like to get a cabin for company to stay by our pond. (: You could put in a composting toilet. Kerosene heater or small fireplace. I would say solar panels( less noise) and doesn't kill birds they will pay you for the energy you make. You could get both thou. As for the pipes freezing make sure they are wrapped good. You could also let the line drip to prevent freezing. Good luck on your off the grid endeavor

**nuisance26** · 10-06-2011, 01:34 PM

~I was just looking at Tumbleweed tiny houses again today. With a few modifications, I think they would be perfect!
I particularly love this one, although it's not much to look at on the outside. Easy to build is quite attractive! Popomo ~

**greekislandgirl** · 10-07-2011, 06:38 AM

Does the electric company have a buy-back program for energy? If you're not going to be there full time, but will be paying to install solar panels or whatever, the sun is going to be shining on them every day - you might as well sell the excess to the electric company. You may even be able to take advantage of a government program that may make installing the panels cheaper, or maybe provide an interest-free loan. I'm not sure - this is the case in some European countries but I haven't looked into it for the US, at any rate, it may be worth investigating.

If you do end up doing a deal with the electric company, you have to be on their grid, but you can use the money they give you to offset the cost to install the equipment. This also insures you get 24 hr energy even without batteries. They take the electricity as you produce it and give you back grid electricity, 24/7 on demand.

If you can get this set up, it may end up quite profitable.

**TheRootedNomad** · 10-07-2011, 07:39 AM

Shelter House Made Of Garbage

I saw this awhile back. I think the architect they talk about has several books out. There is probably a contact number since they give tours and educate. I remember seeing a house in Canada (from a link) that I liked even better than this one. If I can find the link again I'll add it.

**low-1** · 10-07-2011, 07:54 AM

Originally Posted by greekislandgirl

Does the electric company have a buy-back program for energy? If you're not going to be there full time, but will be paying to install solar panels or whatever, the sun is going to be shining on them every day - you might as well sell the excess to the electric company. You may even be able to take advantage of a government program that may make installing the panels cheaper, or maybe provide an interest-free loan. I'm not sure - this is the case in some European countries but I haven't looked into it for the US, at any rate, it may be worth investigating.

If you do end up doing a deal with the electric company, you have to be on their grid, but you can use the money they give you to offset the cost to install the equipment. This also insures you get 24 hr energy even without batteries. They take the electricity as you produce it and give you back grid electricity, 24/7 on demand.

If you can get this set up, it may end up quite profitable.

This is called a "grid-tied" system, and yes, it's the only case where you will actually get a return on your investment when going solar. Otherwise, periodic replacement of batteries ensures that it will never pay for itself, at today's prices anyway.

One thing to keep in mind, though, is that unless you install a custom, hybrid system (expensive, and still has batteries), you will not have power when the grid goes down, even if the sun is shining brightly.

**onencgirl** · 10-07-2011, 03:04 PM

Going Off Grid in East Tennessee - Page 242 - City-Data Forum

try this site. It has bunches of info. You'll need to go back to the beginning.

**Josephhgoins** · 10-09-2011, 02:27 PM

bump

**imagine** · 10-11-2011, 02:49 PM

Saw your bump up

My father was working on building his dream off the grid vacation home when he died. He was a mechanical engineer by degree and an independent consulting engineer my pay. He also was a Patent holder. So he knew lots and believed with enough study and research you could do anything.

He had an indoor filtration system of his design hooked up directly to the plumbing. He currently hauled water but was working on a system to bring the spring water into the cabin.

He worked hard to have a low energy use house. He had some solar panels for energy and used a generator for back up. He was not to happy with he solar panels. They were good for powering a few batteries to run the a few things. there is one at my parents house in the city that powers the sump pump. Need that to work when the grid power in town goes out as the grid does out at the times you need the dump pump the most.. He was looking into a leaning toward windpower at the time he died. He was looking at ready made wind turbines and more old fashioned farmer style wind mills. I think he was seeing that he probably would need a mix hooked up to a energy storage system.

Hope this helps with your dream.

**KeithBC** · 10-12-2011, 07:44 PM

I have several neighbours who are off the grid full-time. Their batteries are up to 25 years old and still functioning well, so don't assume that they need frequent replacement. Good batteries maintained well will last a long time. Solar + wind is a good combination, since wind will produce power in weather when solar can't.

For keeping pipes from freezing, you either need some form of automatic heat or you need to drain the pipes and fill the traps with antifreeze. Automatic heat requires a fuel like propane or an electric connection. Electric heat off solar is not practical.