Saver vs Spender marriage, single income, budget, goals-help?

**McD** · 01-10-2012, 01:02 PM

I did read through the entire thread, thanks for assuming otherwise though.

Considering that this is the OP's first experience on the village, I was merely pointing out that the welcome wagon has been a bit less than gracious to him.

I apologize if you feel I was 'jumping down your throat', that certainly wasn't the intent of my post.

**nodmicks** · 01-10-2012, 01:05 PM

It is really too bad we cant read "expression" or tone of voice as when can when face to face talking.

**Greebo** · 01-10-2012, 01:49 PM

Originally Posted by nodmicks

It is really too bad we cant read "expression" or tone of voice as when can when face to face talking.

We could mandate that pictures of the appropriate emotion be posted with the post...

Course you'd almost never see me with anything but:

**Telephus44** · 01-10-2012, 02:54 PM

Originally Posted by McD

So is OP or anyone who isn't in a financial crisis not supposed to post?

Statements like these are what makes new members to this village feel as if they don't fit in, that they aren't welcome, or that our village doesn't cater to all persons within a wide financial spectrum.

Just because OP's financial worries are of a much different scope than some other members' financial worries do not make them any less of a cause of concern.

This is what I meant when I posted my sarcastic response. Honestly, I don't make as much as the OP but we do make a fair amount of money. I hate to post actual numbers because of the attitude that I must not have "real" problems since we make more. I have always found that this board is supposed to support people who want to focus on frugality, not just support those who have less and are in financial crisis.

For the most part this board is pretty welcoming, but it's attitudes like "your problems don't matter because you could support 3-4 families on what you make" that make people feel unwelcome. That's a big part of the reason I try and post here, to provide a higher-earner perspective.

**Greebo** · 01-10-2012, 03:33 PM

Originally Posted by Telephus44

This is what I meant when I posted my sarcastic response. Honestly, I don't make as much as the OP but we do make a fair amount of money. I hate to post actual numbers because of the attitude that I must not have "real" problems since we make more. I have always found that this board is supposed to support people who want to focus on frugality, not just support those who have less and are in financial crisis.

For the most part this board is pretty welcoming, but it's attitudes like "your problems don't matter because you could support 3-4 families on what you make" that make people feel unwelcome. That's a big part of the reason I try and post here, to provide a higher-earner perspective.

Maybe we could get a "Don't hate me for being in the High Income Kith" award...

**oheoh's momma** · 01-10-2012, 04:49 PM

I am a low income person and this is a lot of money for me wrap my mind around. so first of all no moonlighting your family comes first enjoy your wife and children
I would do the less expensive house and use the savings from it for other things retirement, children's college ed.
800 fun money and 400 travel is more that a lot of peoples income and this is no judgement. could she get buy on less...
I assume that fun money is for shopping, eating out, hair nails, ect. if u eat out a lot could u eat at home and have more family time.
There also comes a time when u have enough this is a basic philsophical difference b/ween people so if u don't come to a meeting of the minds this could cause future problems. good luck.
wow this got kind mean op probably won't post I know no one her meant to hurt his feelings I have a rich friend and yes sometimes i hear money concerns they are different than mine. but I try to understand.
I hope I didn't offend anyone. I said I assume .money and spending is a philosphical issue...
OP u are welcome and I hope that all can be friends.

**mndtrp** · 01-10-2012, 08:36 PM

Considering what even an extremely low income here in the US could get someone in another country, comparing to other people's situations on an actual dollar amount seems pointless.

Originally Posted by nodmicks

However comments on his income~ that is the very thing that makes some members who have worked the plan a VERY LONG time hesitate to post successes. I was so absolutely crushed when I got a comment in 2010 when I bought a new car with cash and it made others feel bad as they were struggling and I " bragged I paid cash for a new car". I was sharing my success~ as in we are saved long and hard and did it after paying off all our debt.

I also don't like to comment on my current status, or successes, because of some comments like what you received.

**nodmicks** · 01-11-2012, 11:28 AM

Originally Posted by mndtrp

Considering what even an extremely low income here in the US could get someone in another country, comparing to other people's situations on an actual dollar amount seems pointless.

I also don't like to comment on my current status, or successes, because of some comments like what you received.

I know

We spent year paying off debt as a family of four making between 28,000 and $32,000 and paid off our 46K. We lived on nothing. Yes our income has risen over the years thankfully as dh worked very hard for it! It did really hurt as we had spent years saving the $ for that car and the FFEF. It took some of the excitment out of it with the comment. That is why in my budget thread (besides dh's wishes I wouldnt type income) and it isnt considered high.

**oheoh's momma** · 01-11-2012, 01:58 PM

did he go away uhm? hugs

**Greebo** · 01-11-2012, 03:36 PM

Last Activity: 01-08-2012 09:44 PM

I wouldn't call him "Scared off" just yet. Doctors have long hours.

**oheoh's momma** · 01-23-2012, 10:09 PM

hey Greebo can we assume now he is scared off? that makes me kinda sad.. Sometimes it is good to get different perspectives from others any hoo sorry

**craftypam** · 01-23-2012, 10:40 PM

Life is too short; you need to enjoy life and not work sooo much. Enjoy your family; your children are only young for a short period of time.
You both need to sit down and compromise on your money situation. The stress will shorten your life and you will never make it to retirement

**dancemommy** · 01-23-2012, 10:58 PM

Originally Posted by McD

So is OP or anyone who isn't in a financial crisis not supposed to post?

Statements like these are what makes new members to this village feel as if they don't fit in, that they aren't welcome, or that our village doesn't cater to all persons within a wide financial spectrum.

Just because OP's financial worries are of a much different scope than some other members' financial worries do not make them any less of a cause of concern.

Thanks for posting that. I have felt that way many times since I joined here. I really do enjoy learning from everyone. But I think it is important to realize that people are frugal for different reasons and are coming from different situations.

So what if they have a good income? Good for them. We are financially stable right now, but had money problems while poor and money problems while more well off. The problems were the issue not the money

We analyzed and addressed the problems. We now have a good income, but lots of expenses (By lifestyle choice). We are frugal in some areas to be able to afford others. And once we addressed our "problems" (which remained the same despite our increasing income) we were able to afford the things we wanted to afford (mostly), by being frugal in other areas.

To the OP- I think you need to chat with your wife. All in all, you can afford the blow money amount if you choose to do so by adjusting in other areas. But the real issue is that you are not agreeing on that amount. I remember when our kids were really little- I think in some ways I spent more money on trivial things back then out of boredom. As our kids have gotten older and busier they have kept us busy. Now my blow money goes toward their activities! We are spending the same amount, but less on "stuff" and more on experiences. Maybe you would feel better spending that blow money as a family on some fun things together?? I wouldn't increase my work time- I'd increase my family time. Maybe your wife is bored....

good luck!

**peanut** · 01-23-2012, 11:39 PM

I think he was turned off...He hasn't posted in a long while now. Too bad. It's nice every now and then to have different perspectives of a variety of income earners and levels.

My DSIS is a doctor in Canada (read: earns about 1/3 her US counterpart). Her DH is a well paid teacher nearing retirement. They earn a bundle of money. BUT they can't get their act together to get their house fixed up. We're talking bare sub-floors where one of their children ripped up the carpet because she didn't like how it felt underfoot... (Yes, major behaviour problems too). Their inability to fix up their house was partly due to lack of time just to meet with people to organize it. But also expenses like private school for two mentally disabled children (including the one who ripped up the carpet!), which totals $30K/year per child.

Everyone's situation is different.

I have little advice to offer the OP because I can't wrap my head around the figures. I do know that as you earn more you automatically tend to put a bigger percentage into savings. DH and I do this now. Used to be we'd be lucky to put anything into savings. Now we make sure there's 10% minimum there, but we have the ability to put 25% there and often do. Occasionally we can put 40% in, but that's an odd month in the summer with real low expenses.

The sad truth is "expenses rise to meet income". She's going to spend more if given more to spend. That's what happened here. The only way around that is discussion. I would say, from my experience this year with allowances, sit down and discuss what she needs and what she wants...making sure she recognizes the difference. I mean, I need clothes, but I want the Helly Hansen 3 season jacket. I know, different strokes for different folks.

Still, if she's still getting money from her parents, which it sounds like she is, then maybe it's time to talk to her about her sense of entitlement. She shouldn't be taking money from her parents at her age. She's in her 40's!!! I don't care how wealthy they are. They are partly to blame for allowing her to become financially dependent. Which begs the question "what are they getting from it?" Are they able to control her with money? There are lots of questions to be asked here.

This kind of goes along with "nature abhors a vacuum". You know, if she wants a bigger house because the other one is full...maybe it's a case of the wife not knowing how to prioritize and de-clutter/let go of things. Might be time to call in a home organizer type person to help her. Maybe if OP called in a big name like Peter Walsh (does he still do that kind of thing?) she'd sit up and take notice?

OTOH, he is a doctor and I can say from my experience that there are certain expectations put on doctor's wives the rest of us don't really have to deal with. They are expected to be patrons of the arts. They are expected to step out in style. Doesn't matter what their style is, but they are expected to be good at it. And often that costs money. DSIS sacrifices style a lot in order to afford experiences (ie. trips), and that is an accepted part of that lifestyle too. They are expected to support local businesses, which often cost more.

This couple has a lot to weigh in the pros and cons of their financial situation and relationship. OP may never read this, but I wish him and his wife well. And I hope, for their children's sake, they can get this financial mess under control before it mushrooms into a major issue resulting in divorce.

**OP (Original Poster)** · 02-11-2012, 05:34 PM

Hey, everybody. I'm still alive! Sorry for the lull. I read everyone's comments and appreciate the time & thought people have donated to my cause

Well, it looks pretty unanimous against the moonlighting!
I have to admit that I do obsess about the saving. I just never had much growing up and all through school, so I got used to frugal living and seeking the thrill of a cheap deal on things. When I run the numbers, it really looks like we could probably save less than 20% beyond maxing our 401k & Roths, and still be in decent shape for retirement. I try to err on the side of saving more partly out of it being such an ingrained part of me and partly because something bad could happen one day and throw our progress way off.
I mean, all the way up through college I lived on less than $9k/y. I support a family now, but it's hard for me to adjust to spending over $6k/m. I really don't feel like I'll ever get used to it. The only times that I enjoy spending on "fun" things is when I know we found a good deal.
Fortunately the Mrs has come around some, but we'll never be fully in sync about how we feel about spending. At this point I just ask her to try to humor me as much as she can by tolerating my obsession with frugality.
I know my daughter enjoys spending time with each other more than material things so far. I really hope that never changes.
For now, we've compromised on a budget that gives her $500/m of blow/fun money. She also insisted that I have $100/m (I was budgeting $20). However, she insisted we raise the travel & family entertainment expenses by about $500 (total). It's hard to argue with her about travel because one of her parents has some serious health issues and the trips are expensive (to South America).
Still, it looks like we'll be able to save around $4k-5k/m despite the extra spending, even without moving. I just have to look the other way when she spends on things that don't seem important to me. But, I'd rather do that than fight about it.