Saver vs Spender marriage, single income, budget, goals-help?

[OP (Original Poster)]

My wife & I have the classic saver (me) vs spender (her) conflict and it continually comes up.

Think "Clark Howard meets Paris Hilton" (minus the video).

HER -------------------------------------------- HIM
--Bargain hunts / budget new to her.-------Penny pincher since birth.
--Wealthy family / silver spoon.--------------Lower middle class kid.
--Insists on finer things, parents help.-------Paid his way in school.
--60+ pair shoes,lusts for Luis Vuitton.-------no trace of materialism.
--Never worked (except bit for dad).-------Worked since 15yo.
--Couldn't care less about retirement.-------Concerns 4 retirement.
--Expects inheritance. -------------------------Loves to save/no backup.
--SAHM/Homemaker.----------------------------Primary care doctor.
--Wants $600k house.---------------------------prefers $300k house.
--Yet not out of control spender.-------------only mortgage debt.
--"keep up with the Jones'".--------------------"best things'n life R free".

How'd these 2 decide to tie the knot? Everything non-financial is blissful.
Love is a beautiful thing! The financial tug-o-war is our main conflict.

KIDS: 1yo & 6yo.

SOON TO BE OUR NEW MONTHLY BUDGET:
(Once we move to a $600k house & I stop moonlighting)
Income $13k/m (after taxes and $17k to 401k & 10k to IRAs)
- ~$7k/m expenses
(includes $800 "fun" & $400 travel money which she decides how to spend).
= $6k/m left.
I want to continue to invest $7k/m in taxable, so we're 1k/m short.
Before the move house was $300k with lower expenses, and I did some moonlighting, so had plenty.

FINANCIAL OUTLOOK:
--Emergency Fund, House down payment, 529, life insurance all covered.
--Social Security: assuming worst (maybe 1/2)?.
--Pension: $7k/m starting 2025 (but could it be cut some by then?)
--Could work 11 more yrs after 2025 (to age 65yo).
--401k & IRAs: only $150k now.
--Taxable investing: also only $150k now...goal was to continue adding $7k/m.
--Rentals: owe $700k on $800k (current) value -- they're the reason I don't have much saved yet. At least $4k/m rental income in retirement if we keep them.

BOTTOM LINE:
I'm antsy with new/more expenses, less income that the investing will have to decrease (at least for a while).

SHOULD I:
1. TAKE A VALIUM --just chill and save less, allow same or more for "fun" -- how much more?
2. LESS FUN--ask her to get by with a bit less fun money (say, $600/m)?
3. WORK MORE--moonlight again to close the gap & catch up?
4. ask her to pitch in if she does eventually work?
5. insist on a less expensive house?

6. Do you feel fun/travel money is not enough? How much would you spend if in the same boat?

[khaski]

Hhhmmmm....have you approached her about less 'fun' money as your housing expenses are increasing? I would go for that, see if she will agree to maybe $650/700 'fun' $ and invest in taxable smidge less as well to cover the difference. Then you'd both be 'giving'. What 'fun' does that cover for her- salon? recreational shopping? Eating out?

[gottadance]

OMG - I'm sorry, but three or four families could get by on what you live on! LOL

Seriously, tell her to rein it in, keep the rental properties, insist on the less expensive house and do NOT work more. The more you make, the more she'll spend and it will be a never-ending circle. Life is about relaxing and enjoying for BOTH of you - not just her. No one's gravestone ever said "wish I worked more." We are not guaranteed tomorrow, nor are our tomorrows guaranteed to be healthy ones.

[greekislandgirl]

SHOULD I:
1. TAKE A VALIUM --just chill and save less, allow same or more for "fun" -- how much more?

Spending more is rarely the solution to financial anxiety.

2. LESS FUN--ask her to get by with a bit less fun money (say, $600/m)?

Yes, although $600/month for non-essentials is just wasteful.

3. WORK MORE--moonlight again to close the gap & catch up?

If you want to, work more. But you have two young children and a wife who thinks that she should have everything she wants - do you REALLY want to be away from home even more than you already are?

4. ask her to pitch in if she does eventually work?

I think you're late to this game.

5. insist on a less expensive house?

It's not a question of "insisting." Buy what you can afford. If you feel you can't afford the more expensive house, don't buy it. If you already own a home and are happy there, don't fix what's not broken.

6. Do you feel fun/travel money is not enough? How much would you spend if in the same boat?

If you're asking for my honest opinion, I think you're spending absolutely absurd amounts of money on these categories, but that's okay if that's what YOU feel you need to do.

Your wife is not "a spender." Your wife is immature, you may have sheltered her (perhaps unintentionally), and she is wasteful and probably has a misplaced sense of entitlement. All of that is okay if you're okay with it.

[OP (Original Poster)]

Thanks for the thoughtful replies thus far.

[krbshappy71]

My only two cents is to rule out moonlighting. Your children are very young. Invest in THEM. This is a money saving tip, less spent on therapy later.

[monkeywrangler71]

1. TAKE A VALIUM --just chill and save less, allow same or more for "fun" -- how much more?

This.

If I read this correctly - you are at work all the time while your wife stays home with a 1 & 6 year old (but has never "worked" ).

You would like to save $408,000 a year for retirement, but due to the fact that your "non-working" wife would like to have fun with roughly 3% of your take-home pay, you will only be able to save $396,000 a year.

What wonderful things are you planning in retirement that require you to have an 85% savings rate while you are working? This is completely unbalanced and probably obsessive behaviour. I would recommend you set up an appointment with your financial advisor and discuss your actual retirement income projection with this amount of monthly savings. You may not even live long enough to spend any of it, so I suggest you try to find some balance in your life and start enjoying a little bit more of the now.

[forHISglory]

I would suggest living under your means. That will take off the stress and allow more time with your children and allow you to retire earlier.

I understand that there may be marital stress in doing this, and perhaps you need a counselor to help you and your wife to come to some common values and goals.

[bunnys]

I agree with many of the posters. I really can't relate to your situation as I am a public school teacher working in a southern state (notoriously low pay) running and entire household and saving on just my salary.

Personally, I think not only should you quit moonlighting you should cut your work schedule down to part time and spend time with your family. I'd also recommend you save between 10-15% of your income for retirement.

Using your wife (and apparently also your) wants as the basis for your decisions will never make either of you happy. Even if you made 10x the salary you currently make your wife would never have enough money to satisfy her need to spend and you'd never make enough money to satisfy your need to save.

Why not just focus on being together as a family and enjoying life doing inexpensive family-oriented activities? You'll all be a lot happier.

[OP (Original Poster)]

monkeywrangler, your math is wrong. Please re-read the OP.

[shelly123]

Hello
I can't add much other than please do not moonlight. My dad did this the entire time I was growing up so my mom could stay at home with us kids. We never saw him.

I would also add that working more so you can buy more or so wife can spend more will only leave you resentful and could destroy your marriage.

An honest talk about priorities and some compromise is in order.

[Buckeye5]

this is an unusual financial posting on here, but only the amount of money that you make. What isn't unusual is that you have debt, and aren't on the same financial page as your wife. You were raised to hang on to every dollar, and she was raised not to worry about any dollars, so now you need to find a compromising half way point to meet. Are you the one that pays the bills etc. and dictates to her about money? Does she have any input on financial decisions? Have you written out your financial plan on paper and actually discussed it ..goals etc? This is what needs to be done first. Do you have debt other than the mortgage? If so this needs to be paid for before you mortgage up to a bigger house, bigger house means bigger expenses. If you have to moonlight to have this, than it is not a doable thing. Ask grown up kids if they wished that they grew up in a mansion or had their Daddy around more, we all know what the answer is. Time is also valuable, just ask the kids someday. here is a bit more of advice:

Write down everything on paper...budget
Write out all of your debt and savings
Set aside a time when there are no distractions and have a financial meeting with just you and your wife.
Explain that this is making you feel anxious and stressed.
Look at the whole financial picture together and be honest.
Ask why she needs to have a bigger house?
etc.........

It sounds like to me that she grew up a little bit like her children are going to....filling an emotional need with just material stuff.
Were her parents around growing up, or were they out keeping up with the Jones? What do you both want to teach your children about material stuff, that it is more important than being with those that you love? QUIT MOONLIGHTING!!! Hope this helped a bit.

[mndtrp]

I imagine more people are going to focus on the large amounts of money, as opposed to the true problem: you and your wife need to get on the same page. Once you do this, which will likely require sacrifices on both of your parts, then you can decide if your money is going to the correct places.

From what I can glean, your wife essentially gets $1300 that she can spend how she wants, while you are wanting $7000. To me, it looks like you get several times more than her to spend how you each want, you just choose investing.

If this was my family, I would:
Avoid moonlighting, enjoy your family.
Discuss with your wife your financial plans for the future.
Reach a compromise, with regards to "spending money", that you both agree to.
I would also look into funding for your children's colleges.

[OP (Original Poster)]

Thanks for the replies, everyone.
mndtrp is about right. She gets $1200/m to spend how she pleases on "wants", not "needs".
I'm just not sure why we cannot live happily on "only" $6k per month for a family of 4.

I'd like to tuck the rest into savings/investing to secure our future and have a large cushion for whatever challenges may arise. I know it seems like a lot to save, but just to maintain a $7k/m lifestyle, we'd need over $14k/m in 25yrs due to inflation. We're also 40yo and haven been able to save much at all before now (income was lower, student loans, poor decisions, etc), so we need to catch up.

I do not believe that just because I make more that we need to spend so much more. Certainly I, and I think most people, would be quite happy spending $6k/month.

Instead of saving less or moonlighting, how about...
LESS EXPENSIVE HOUSE:
I'd prefer our house to be $300 to max $450k, but she is insistent that we need a bigger house with a private pool, and a perfect kitchen, high ceilings, etc.
SPENDING LESS ON "WANTS".
SHE COULD WORK AND SPEND THAT MONEY.

[forHISglory]

The more I read, the more convinced i am that this is not about the money. i don't know where you live, but i know that a $350,000-$400,000 house in parts of the country is no more than a $200,000 house in other parts. Same ratio goes for income. So honestly, I'm not going to focus on the money. My focus for you is to repair a marriage where two people do not live together with the same goals, visions, dreams, and ideals. I would still suggest intervention with a neutral third party: a counselor, a pastor, etc. Until you share a common philosophy about what money is and what it can do, you will continue to live as people on far ends of the spectrum.