Thriving through the Greek economic crisis

[greekislandgirl]

I already posted some of this on the general Chit Chat board as an introduction, but thought maybe I should post here as well as this will probably be where I hang out

I'm American and my husband is Greek. We live in Greece (I moved here a year ago); he is a teacher (therefore a state employee). As you may have heard in the news, Greece severely reduced pay to state employees because of a deficit crisis. This has really hurt us.

We've only been married for two months. I had a $12,000 operation in March which I paid for in cash (my insurance rejected the claim), and that was most of my savings. I also had huge expenses in January when I was stranded in Heathrow Airport and had to spend $2000 to get home.

I'm unemployed (it's illegal for me to work in Greece (because I'm American) until my permit application is processed and that usually takes around a year, I'm not even permitted to apply until July 15, so I probably can't work for another 13 months or so) although I am going to have a summer job (it's not illegal - it's through a US company, but it's only for 5 weeks).

In December, everything was okay. Between us, we had around $20,000 in savings, no debt except his car, and were happily planning our wedding. Now, we have almost no savings, poverty-line income, and we canceled the wedding and eloped instead.

My husband's monthly income is now down to €1084 (that's €13,000 per year), although it could go lower.

Gas costs €1.65 per Liter. That's the equivalent of about $8 / gallon.

They raised general sales tax to 23%. That's a lot - in my home state of Virginia, it was 4.5%.

I am feeling overwhelmed. I feel like things are conspiring against us when we've only been married two months. I can't work legally. My husband can't legally hold a second job, as a requirement of the job he has now. Even if we wanted to risk working illegally, jobs are ridiculously hard to find because of the crisis. Our savings are suddenly gone so we don't have an emergency fund anymore, which goes against everything I've ever been taught about money, and it scares me a lot. Our dream of having a wedding with our parents present is in the trash. We set up a "Wedding Fund" concept but there's no money in it yet.

They reduced the minimum wage here so now many, many people are paid €590/month for fulltime jobs (€7,000/year - worth about US$7,000/year - could you live on $7,000 / year??). That includes people with bachelors and masters degrees working in professional fields like IT. When I'm legally able to work, that's the best I can hope for (assuming I'm lucky enough to find something full time), even though by then I should have completed by PhD. I see how hard my husband works and how dedicated he is to his students and the schools where he works (he teaches at 3 different schools) and it makes me want to cry when I see his education (he has a masters and lots of extra certifications) and his dedication and skill so under-rewarded.

I'm so grateful that he has a job. I am exploring all legal avenues to make money but I'm not willing to work illegally unless it's a question of actual survival.

I'm trying so hard not to get frustrated and depressed. I have a VERY "anxiety-prone" personality and I have to take anti-anxiety medication sometimes to calm down (stuff that's available over the counter in this country, but still...). It took me a long time and a lot of sacrifice to save up the money I had, saving money as a graduate student (which is what I am) is not easy, and I had to blow ALL of it on an operation that couldn't be avoided, even though I had insurance. It was insurance for suckers, but still. Now it feels like we are starting from nothing. Thank goodness once we got married he could add me to his insurance, so I am okay with that.

I'm 29 and my husband is 31. Any thoughts and plans we had about having children are completely trashed. We will reconsider in five or so years, but he's received notification that his salary will not be increased (and could be further decreased) for at least 4 years. I'm just grateful we don't already have children, I guess. We aren't be able to support a pregnancy, much less a child. The whole thing makes me sad.

Our biggest financial fear is getting into debt. My husband's parents have a friend who was in prison for an entire year because he couldn't repay some debts he had. I had never heard of something like that when I lived in the US and it scares me that that could happen here, where obviously laws are a little different. Our #1 financial priority every month is our car payment, because it's our only debt, and we aren't willing to borrow any other money.

That's my rant. I don't have a question. We have already set up a strict budget and reduced our spending to almost nothing, but how long can we do that realistically before someone needs a dentist or a bottle of sunscreen or something? We're moving next week for the summer to a cheaper place so I can do my summer job, and the expenses of moving are stressing me out, that's probably why I felt the need to rant away! Anyway, just talking about it is helpful for my psychological state and makes me feel like it will be okay. So thanks for listening.

[nessarowdy]

Hugs! I'm sorry things are so crazy over there! I had read about the financial meltdown, but it's always more personal when an actual person shares their perspective.

Are you able to come back to the United States? Given both your educational backgrounds, I wouldn't think it would be too difficult to secure employment here in the U.S.

Another option would be for you to move back to the U.S. without your dh for awhile and work. Not ideal, most definitely, especially for newlyweds. But it's an option, nonetheless.

Hang in there, you're in my thoughts and prayers! On a side note, I have always wanted to visit Greece. I imagine it is just breathtaking there!
-Vanessa

[craftypam]

Sorry you are going through all of this. It sounds like you did the right things and are still having trouble. I guess all I can say is have faith that all will work out. Good luck to you.

[greekislandgirl]

Hi Vanessa,
Thanks for your post! We have been talking so much about moving to the US, at least for a few years. There are a few issues (we definitely have NOT ruled it out!) though:

1) The job he has now is tenured, meaning it's a "job for life" unless they actually amend the Constitution of Greece (which could happen, of course), but if he were to quit his job, he wouldn't be able to get it back easily. So getting to a point where we are willing to throw in the towel with this job - even considering how low paying it is - is tough.

2) There actually IS a way he can KEEP his job AND work in the US. There are Greek schools in the US (owned by the Greek government) that employ people exactly like my husband. He would not lose his current position and he would even make more money. However, there are only 4 positions in the entire USA, and none of them were open this year (2010-2011). This is a 3-yr commitment and basically our #1 option, but it's such a long shot that I am reluctant to even talk about it LOL!!

3) If he came to the US just as my spouse, he'd have to remain unemployed until he got a green card. My experience with friends who have been married to foreigners is that it can take a LONG time (several years). Unless I were able to get a very good job immediately and be able to support us both, this would be a tough step to take.

4) We are not willing to live apart. I think every person has a "limit" and this is ours. We would rather live in poverty together than live apart. We've been through it already and it's over now and we're not doing it again. I know that some people could potentially judge us for this, and I know lots of teachers here in Greece who live very far away from their spouses (our closest friend here on the island lives a 9-hour ferry ride + 6 hour train ride away from her husband!), but we just can't entertain that possibility.

5) My family lives in the US and would help us to a certain extent. However, my parents are retired and his parents are BOTH teachers in Greece and have been hit far worse than even we have been (because they also have a mortgage!!) by the cuts. In general, we're pretty much on our own.

6) We are open to living anywhere in the world (okay, within limits... North America, Western Europe, and Australia ) but ultimately we REALLY want to come back here. IF we are financially secure while we still have fertility, we want to raise our child in Greece. Despite the CURRENT financial crisis, it is the most amazing place, community, etc that I could ever have dreamed of. It's the most beautiful place. We live on a tiny island in the Aegean Sea (my avatar is a photo of our island). We live steps away from the beach (and don't say move someplace cheaper - this is the cheapest place on the island ) and as soon as my husband finishes what he's working on, we're going for an evening swim in the sea, like every night. Despite our financial CRISIS, our actual quality of life is ridiculously high. So those are reasons to stay here - or at least, not go away for very long.

So we are definitely considering all our options. We are young and we are adventurous, and living abroad doesn't scare us (I'm already doing it). There are those Greek schools (like the ones in the US) in something like 40 countries, but unfortunately they've temporarily suspended the program and haven't sent anyone to any of the countries for the coming year - but maybe they will next year....

I could tell you stories about the ridiculous system here for hours... like how my husband only found out WHICH ISLAND he would be teaching on (and where we would be living, as a result) until ONE DAY before school started in September! And he had to be there the next day!!!

[daughter of pearl]

I am so sorryyo are going through this so early in yor marriage. You are doing all the right things.

Sending you good vibes, and please continue to use the forum as a place to vent, ask questions and get support!

[pollypurebred39]

GreekIslandGirl,

Wow! You are in between a rock and a hard place. Your situation leaves you very little leeway. As far as I can see your only option is to reduce your outflow of cash, such as food, utilities, and HBA. Good thing for you so many of us here have learned lots of ways to do just that. There are tons and tons of threads about just how to reduce utilities, reduce your food budget (lots of budget recipes too!) and reducing HBA. Many here have downright brilliant ideas from everything like your supper table to your wash line. The frugal village and all it's villagers have been a lifesaver for us, I'm hoping that you'll find that the FV is just as helpful for you and your DH.

Wishing you all the best

[greekislandgirl]

Wow. The support here is amazing. I've been reading threads on this forum all evening and it's so inspiring to see what others have done and we're all still here

Polly - what's HBA? I'm sure I'll figure it out soon enough

I'm determined NOT to get into a "victim" mindset. I am one of those people whose personality was molded by their parents, and my parents are very anti-victim-mindset and anti-entitlement-mindset type people. I don't feel like something that I'm "entitled to" was taken away from me. I made the decision to live and marry in a country where I didn't have an automatic right to work; I made the decision to buy discount health insurance; etc.

So in light of that, and since I feel inspired by what I've read on here today, I've decided to make two lists: The things I've already started doing to save $$, and the Things I am thinking I should start doing!

Already Doing:
- only eating at home
- only eating meals from ingredients we already had in the pantry. The only food items we've purchased in the past month are fresh vegetables, fresh fruit, fresh dairy, and bottled water
- only eating vegetarian
- no alcohol consumption. (Neither of us smokes either.)
- only free entertainment (beach, TV, DVDs we already have, internet, friends' houses, walking around the paradise island where we live, etc)
- cheap meals (today I made bean soup, and every time we took soup out of the pot, I added an equiv. amount of water and seasoning to make up for it. After two people eating two meals of soup, we still have the same amount of soup) that are made completely from scratch.
- learn new recipes and new techniques that require less water, less electricity, and of course cheaper ingredients (I've really gotten into new recipes this month!)
- use the fresh herbs that grow on the island (for free!)
- check OANDA every day to track currency exchange rates to get the best rate if I do need to withdraw from my US account
- make use of found objects (found a beautiful sea sponge at the beach; that would cost $20 in a store; even if I don't need the sponge, it's a great decorative item and could even be a gift)
- continue collecting receipts of all purchases for a tax credit (special new government program to reduce tax evasion - if I turn in enough receipts with my tax return, I can get a tax credit. I've been collecting them like crazy to the point where I don't think we will have to pay any income tax AT ALL next year.)
- stay in touch with friends and family in the US on Skype, email, Facebook only.
- STICK TO THE BUDGET!!!!

Planning to Start:
- unplug the powerstrip from the electricity when not in use
- turn off the main power to the TV instead of using the remote control "Off" button
- walk more. I don't drive (don't have a Greek license) and we rarely drive more than 4 miles per day, but we've been driving (1 mile) to the beach and there is no reason we can't walk that.
- learn about homemade toiletries. We don't use very much of most toiletries but we use a TON of hand soap. We are both sort of compulsive hand-washers. We've always used the Palmolive pump hand soap and one of those bottles lasts us about 10 days. That has got to change.
- use less mouthwash each time. I don't think I really need to use as much as they say, as long as I swish it around really well! And that stuff is expensive.
- STOCK UP ON EVERYTHING in Athens before we come back to the island in September!!! This is a HUGE one and it's not a new idea, it's just something whose time has not yet come. I am actually planning to set aside €700 for a HUGE "shopping spree" to buy everything non-perishable at once at discount stores in Athens, since here on the island everything is more expensive.
- re-use aluminum foil and baking paper. I go through so much of these since I cook everything from scratch, and I don't like to use oil in pans, so I use paper. I can re-use a lot of it.
- use plates to cover bowls instead of using cellophane wrap.
- find a source for yeast that is cheaper than the supermarket (35 cents per packet is a lot)
- cancel my cell phone. I have a "Pay as you go" plan and I haven't had money on it since May. I need it for my job in July/Aug but after that I'm not going to bother with it.
- read financial news and stay up to date on the economic situation and the currency situation
- learn about potential methods of cleaning the tap water so it can be used for more than just washing
- find some ways to make money legally (I've been working on this but haven't made any headway yet)
- get better about turning people down when they invite me to things that will inevitably cost money. Okay, I'm really good at this, but my husband isn't. ALL our friends go out to coffee EVERY day. They are in the exact same situation as we are, except they didn't have the $12,000 expense. Okay, so their situation is different! But they are all teachers whose salaries were axed, or other jobs with similar issues. They need to watch their expenses too, but they haven't had to face REALITY yet like we have!!!
- read books I already have instead of buying more books. This is my big downfall. I don't buy clothes, shoes, kitchen stuff, jewelry, or anything like that, but I buy books. I have THOUSANDS of books. I know because at one point I had to ship them from the US to Greece. I have bought over 100 books since last September (almost all before January). Almost all of my books are related to my field, none of them are novels, but still. I don't need any more, right?

I'm sure these lists will only get longer. I feel very positive. My husband is "on board" with the exception of his reluctance to give up certain very specific things (like accepting invitations to things, and like giving wedding gifts which are always given as money here, and usually a rather large amount). He LOVES my cooking (as do I!) so I've had ZERO complaints about everything being homemade and from scratch. In fact he keeps suggesting I open a restaurant LOL!! We're going to be fine....

[Siebrie]

Is there any way you can learn to cook the Greek way? The Greek kitchen knows many ´poor´ dishes, with very little meat and lots of veggies, olive oil, etc.

Can you grow your own herbs? Do you have a roof that you can use to garden on? Or is their an (elderly) neighbour you can help gardening in return for some or half of the harvest?

Is there any possible second source of income, that is not subject to a work permit? For instance, selling typical Greek items via ebay in the US?

I don´t think mouthwash is necessary at all, but that´s just my opinion. Maybe you can look into vinegar and baking soda for all cleaning? Check out frugalbabe´s website for ideas on living cheaply, even with a baby.

Stay calm and enjoy the sunshine!

[greekislandgirl]

Hi Siebrie! Thanks for your post! We are definitely enjoying the sunshine (and the sea!).

We have been doing 100% vegetarian meals for about 2 months and I do plan to continue this. We do eat eggs sometimes as they are not too expensive considering how good the protein is, and they are useful in several from-scratch things I make. I love to cook Greek dishes, I also cook Middle Eastern, North African, Italian, Mexican, Chinese - lots of "peasant-style" dishes that are based on cheap ingredients like flour, rice, and dried beans. However, I can always improve this, and I'm going to see if my husband's mother has an extra pressure-cooker she can give me so I can cook dried beans using less water and electricity.

For herbs: I can get fresh mint, basil, oregano, sage, and thyme for free on the island. We can also get capers for free, and I can cure them at home. This is just a wonderful perk of living on a Greek island!

As for gardening... I wish!! My mom is a life-long gardener and I would love to follow in her footsteps. We will be uprooted for the whole summer (moving all our stuff to husband's parents' house and staying there a few days, then moving to Athens (5 hours away from there) for 1.5 months, then back to his parents for a few weeks until we can come back here in September. That makes gardening hard. However, I want to try to do it starting in September. It would probably be container gardening, but we'll see. Luckily Greece has great weather so it's not just the one growing season that I grew up with in the US.

As for a second income - yes, that's an option. I do have a summer job for 5 weeks (which I also had last year), which is paying okay and is providing me with an apartment and utilities for the duration of the job, which is great. I am on Fiverr although I haven't had any nibbles on there yet. I am hoping to teach private English lessons (one-on-one) that could be without a permit (especially if I accepted payment in something other than money). My husband thinks I would be able to find students pretty easily. I have a special interest in teaching adults. I also have experience in teaching children with autism, and could somehow use that experience although on an island with 200 residents, and none of them on the autism spectrum, that's kind of a useless skill! But I have a lot of little things I know how to do, and I actually have a few ideas, that I am definitely going to try to do. It's just that most of my ideas would be "I'll do this for you or €20", not "I can count on €500/month" which would really help. But hey, €20 would really help too.

I'm feeling very positive tonight because I am thinking that there are a lot of people in the same position we're in, and we are a strong community. I feel sure that Greece will pull through. I grew up on a farm and have a lot of "survival skills" in the back of my mind. I taught a friend how to bake bread on Friday and she gave me several loaves of it. There are always ways to get by, right?

[craftypam]

greekislandgirl;
totally off subject; how did you meet your dh?

Pam

[greekislandgirl]

Pam, we were both researching our dissertations at the same library. We weren't allowed to talk to each other but we met up after hours and got to know each other that way. I moved back to the US but we stayed in touch on Facebook and Skype. Then I got a fellowship to come back to Greece to continue my research and could finally talk about "the future" We got engaged 3 months after I came back!!

[pollypurebred39]

GreekIslandGirl, health and beauty products. Mouthwash, toilet paper, sunscreen, band-aids and the like.

[Didi]

It sounds like you're already in a think-flow rather than a help-what-should-we-do-flow! Excellent!

I'd explore if you can run a business. Maybe the Greek system is afraid that you'll "abuse" their social security.
I'd check out the opportunities for:
- a Greek, Greece-based business.
- an American, Greece-based business.

I had no idea that the Greeks were hit that hard. Surely I've followed the news, but this is quite a shock especially since you are both highly educated etc.

[Didi]

- What about trying to sell a column to an American (or English) newspaper about living in Greece?
- Translational services: I know there are quite a few Greeks working for the European Union in Brussels. Maybe you can translate documents into Greek?
- Is there a way you can turn your PhD subject into something that will generate money (publications / paid lectures/ a book for the general public? I must admit that I did not succeed in generating any money with my odd subject)
- What do you think about transcription work? You could approach law firms in the USA and ask if you can type their recordings? This would require hardly any investment (free software, perhaps a headphone) and you can probably come up with a competitive hourrate.

(P.S. I adore the picture of 'your' island)

[greekislandgirl]

Hi Didi,
It's illegal for me to start a business here, but I am looking into my options of starting one based in the US and running it from here. I have several ideas (really good ideas, I think!), unfortunately they all need capital to start up and I am not going to risk going into debt, so we shall see! I have a friend my age who started an international business between USA and Germany and the business failed (for reasons he couldn't really control) and he now owes $60,000 in credit card debt and has ZERO savings and had to move back in with his parents, so I'm cautious.

Yes, things are very hard here. They are mostly hard on state employees like teachers, college professors, doctors, etc. It's no so bad for the private sector. Those of us directly affected are focusing on basic issues like shelter, food, water. Thanks for the encouragement.

I decided it might be helpful to write out my monthly budget. I've already done this on my computer but maybe someone will spot something that can be changed.

The main thing about my monthly budget that is so difficult to explain is that it is NOT the same month to month.

Until May, my husband and I were living apart much of the time. I was commuting to Athens (for grad school) for several weeks at a time, and he was living on the island. That affected our budget of course, since we had to live in two separate apartments, although my fellowship defrayed a lot of the costs.

Since June 1, we have lived together on the island (since the academic year ended). We have had super low expenses this month because of living together and using up our pantry items before...

June 27, we are moving out of here, temporarily going to his parents' (to leave all our stuff) and then moving to Athens for 6 weeks...

July-August will be a different budget because we'll be living in the city and doing a lot of traveling for my job (all expenses but food are paid BUT I will be staying in hotels so food is hard to cook when you don't have a refrigerator or a source of heat). And in July my husband is going on a professional trip for a week (not all expenses paid though - it will cost us €500 for him to go but he agreed to go over a year ago so he has to go).

September - we will be moving back here and THEN life will get "normal" again as we will not be living apart. I will not be going to Athens anymore and we can focus on settling into a routine.

For that reason, I basically think of everything up to September (and even September because of moving, stocking the new pantry, etc) as very atypical and hard to budget for. Even after we move in in September, we have to leave again next June, because we can't afford to stay in July and August.

Anyway, for what it's worth, here is our Monthly Budget list from my computer. I've added notes to make some things make more sense. Obviously, most of these things we won't buy each month. I've just taken yearly totals and divided by 12 (or 10 in the case of rent, electricity, water bill, internet, and gas which we won't need to pay in July and August):

All amounts per month:

Clothing/Shoes/Care of clothes: €16 (€8 per person)
Furnishings/Housewares/Kitchen Equipment: €16
Car Payment: €200
Rent: €300 (we paid €240 in June, but I'm budgeting €300 per month starting in September because we will probably have to pay more. I am not counting July and August because we have no rent those months)
Electricity: €40
Water: €15
Internet: €20 (we haven't paid this all year and may not have to next year either - fingers crossed!)
Husband's Pay-as-you-go phone: €5 (he hasn't put money on in months, so this is sort of theoretical)
My cell phone: €8 (same as above)
Phonecards: €3 (for me to talk to my parents in the US, I haven't done this in at least 6 months though)
Skype: €2.50 (for us to make landline calls - I do use this)
Haircuts: €7.50 (husband), €16.60 (me)
Gifts: €8 (from a yearly €100 wedding gift budget - everyone had to get married this year, including us... )
Prescription Drugs: €5 (I have to take medicine every day)
Over the counter drugs/Drugstore stuff: €10
Doctor visits: €8 (includes lab tests)

*Toiletries: €6.50
Cleaning supplies: €1.50
*Paper products: €2.50
Sewing notions: €1.25
Non-edible kitchen products: €1.50
*Dental products: €18.30 (my husband has problematic teeth and his dentist has him using special toothpaste and mouthwash.)

Spice rack: €2
Bottled water: €29
*Baking items: €1.60
*Dried foods: €16.60
*Canned foods: €8.30
*Jarred foods: €8.30
*Cafe products: €6.50
*Dairy: €50
*Animal protein: €14.10 (eggs, chicken, etc. We eat vegetarian to save money but if I found something really really cheap I'd get it.)
*Fresh Vegetables and Fruits: €125 (we didn't come anywhere near most of these food amounts this month but we went way over on the bottled water - I'll have to come back to that)

*Meals at reasonably priced restaurants: €50
*Cafe: €30 (I want to cut this out by my husband's social life depends on it - he's been great about turning down the daily invitations though)
Restaurant: €8 (from a €100/year fund for a nice meal out 2x/year)
*Fast Food: €10 (i.e., a souvlaki on the street - the only meat in our diet)
*Gasoline: €45.80
Car repairs: €15
Metro: €2.50
Train: €8
Air Travel: €33 (towards emergency flights I might have to make to the US if I have a family emergency)
Ferry Travel: €33 (necessary on an island)
Taxi: €16.60
Cinema: €7.50 (I want to cut this out but husband wants to keep it... we'll see)
Theater: €15 (we both study theater professionally so this is kind of work-related, but I don't see us actually spending this money. We haven't done this all year)

Total: €1370 / month
Husband's income: €1084 / month
My contribution from savings and money earned this summer makes up the rest.

Our plan is to take all the money that we don't spend in the categories with asterisks, divide it in half, add in the first half to that same category for the following month, and the second half goes into a savings fund. The un-starred categories get the whole extra added in, if there is any left over in the previous month. If we overspend one month in a particular category, the following month we subtract the amount we overspent, although I can readjust when I see where we need to allocate more or less. So far (we are finishing WEEK ONE tomorrow, so it's way too early to know), we've only overspent on bottled water (by about 2x as much as budgeted) but luckily over the summer (July/Aug) we will be able to drink tap water so that should put us a little ahead.

I have everything broken down by 4 into weeks and so far this week the ONLY categories we've touched at all have been Fresh Fruits & Vegetables, Dried Foods, Dairy, and Bottled Water - that's it. We've spent €18.67 this week, €14.00 of which was on bottled water. So it works out to under €5 for food, and €0 on all other expenses. I'm going to the doctor today so I may have to pay something for medicine this week. And so I keep plodding on....