MY mother just doesn't get it!!!!!!!!! Yes i am ranting.

**heaven** · 01-17-2003, 11:41 AM

Keiko has to go to a therapist because she is depressed, which i feel really bad because i think i passed it on. So anyway she is going to see a therapist, and my mother said, get this "you can make your own happiness or unhappiness" I felt Like she had slapped me in the face. I said not always, She said oh yes you can.
I had to drop it because i wanted to just start screaming. Now my mother isn't a total idiot, *sometimes I wonder* I just cant' believe she said that. ARGH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! sorry had to get that out before i went screaming down the street.

**tunasalad** · 01-17-2003, 11:55 AM

That thinking is more common than you think.
Ever hear these?

"Real Christians don't get depressed."
"Just have faith and it will be all right."
"Just pray about it and it will go away."

While those statements all have some basis in fact, they can go a bit over board. I spent seveal years on the mission field. I have a great deal of faith, but there are some out there who are so Heavenly minded they are of no earthly good.

"God put this on my heart." Yeah? How'd He do that? You hear a voice? The clouds part? Manna fall on your head? When people make statements like that without scriptural backing it drives me nuts!

**guest2** · 01-17-2003, 12:53 PM

Oh Heaven,
I'm so sorry that your mother does not understand that after all that your family is going through that your daughter's depression is totally understandable and warranted. You have all been through so much and the fact that you are even still holding it together so well is simply amazing and inspiring to me! Hang in there and do what is best for your daughter!

**dolphin** · 01-17-2003, 12:54 PM

You're right Heaven. She doesn't get it and at this point I don't think any amount of convincing would work.

I used to be told "snap out of it", "get a grip", "you make your own happiness", "just get over it". So for years you try to "fix" yourself and therefore you go years with nearly unbearable mental pain and maybe you could have gotten the help you needed if someone had just understood.....

My unforgetable quote is from a Pharmacist in NC several years ago. I was making polite conversation and said "I bet you get sick a lot with all these sick people coming in here." He said "Oh NO! I never get sick. I am a Christain and I have faith in the Lord and I have never been sick and neither has my family."

**captclearance** · 01-17-2003, 03:19 PM

Give her some medical literature..... Send for it on the internet and she can see for herself....... It's old school thinking and you may never change her mind, just get Keiko the help she needs and don't worry about what your Mother says......

**heaven** · 01-17-2003, 03:32 PM

thanks my mother doesn't have internet. that is how far behind she is. she will never change her mind! i really think i passed it on though. which is always such a nice thought. Anyway thanks everyone for your support.

**aylasmommy** · 01-17-2003, 03:41 PM

Oh heaven i'm so sorry she said that and thinks that

I remember when I came back from the psych ward after being there a whole month..one of my friends who I thought was just so cool and really respected...well he told me basically that it was all in my head and I shouldn't have let it take over me

That hurt SO much..and I have never talked to him again since!

I don't know why I said that since you can't just not talk to your mom, but those statements *are really hurtful aren't they

I'm sorry she said that

**MJsLady** · 01-17-2003, 04:43 PM

Goodness Heaven!
OK have your mom anaylize this one.
I am the most upbeat even keeled person I know. I rarely get sad
I rarely think depressed thoughts.
However I went to the DR yesterday with some PHYSICAL problems, and you know what?
He says I am clinically depressed!
I am btw a solid christian. God does not promise us a bed of roses here, we face the same trials everyone else does, its just how we may handle them thats different.
I thought I had a physical problem, being depressed never crossed my mind!
Hopefully he has given me the key to getting healthy again.
I hope Keiko gets what help she needs before it effects her more seriously.

**heavensent_7** · 01-17-2003, 05:17 PM

Gulp! At the risk of being stoned to death............. I have suffered from cronic clinical depression for 17 years so I DO know what it is BUT I have been looking into this theory recently and reading about it (well for years actually - more recently) Although it would be OBVIOUS to everyone here that I certainly CAN'T 'think' myself happy, I do think there is something in it (sorry, sorry) That's why I am not surprised that depression DOES cause physical sickness. I really do believe that mind affects body and visa versa and if you can 'control' it somehow then you will be FREE. (I'm REALLY hoping so, or I'm wasting LOTS of time!)

Also Heaven I'm hearing loud and clear a guilt trip for 'passing it on' Here's MO again (I'm cringing here and thinking how everyone will be sending me negative thoughts!) One of my children (at least) that I know of suffers from Depression and my Father suffered too and I have given a great deal of thought to whether it's hereditory or 'learned' behaviour and as both are possible (and both maybe have no grounding??) I didn't come up with a solid answer - just a guilt trip!!!!

The point is this: I used to go to A.A. with my Dad (A 12 step programme for alcoholics) and they often used to debate whether alcoholism was hereditory, the more experienced in recovery always said the same thing - It didn't really make any difference one way or the other as they were where they were? We are 'sick' and NO mother wants to see her child suffer, if your child broke her leg and soft bones were in your family background that wouldn't be your 'fault' would it? And this is the same. There is still so much that people don't understand about depression (especially those that don't have it - Like Carolyn pointed out) that there seems to still be some taboo with it. It is just an illness like any other and you are trying your best to make your child well - as parents that's all we can do, Love and suffer along with them, and the fact that it even crossed your mind obviously means that you DO love her and that's the bit that matters! I read somewhere: Whatever the problem LOVE is the answer. (I told you I know lots of annoying sayings like that LOL) oh yeah and this too shall pass.

I am sorry that your mother added to your pain, people can so easily be tactless and hurt us and I do love you and keep you close in my thoughts.

Please, I don't mean to upset anybody and I honestly hope that I haven't but I think I know what she was 'trying' to say and that comes from a depressive!

to you Heaven, You are doing a GREAT job and the very best you can with the knowledge that you have, nobody can ask more than that. Keep at it.

I hope I didn't say the 'wrong thing' I'm thinking of you Bev. xxxx

**MJsLady** · 01-17-2003, 06:07 PM

Bev,
You did not say the wrong thing. Sometimes we can "think" our way out of depression. Or at least I thought I could, its when we do that for too long that the illness can become physical. I never really thought I was depressed, yes I have times when I get sad, but I always thought it was just an...evening out of my normal upbeat self. I mean, really, nobody is happy 100% of the time! However I never let anyone in on my sadness, everyone always thinks I am happy, no matter what. (must be my sarcastic wit

)
Yes I do think and pray myself out of depression, but I never got over the cause, which according to my DR is inbalanced brain chemicals. Since I never knew the cause it went untreated. Make sense?

**heavensent_7** · 01-17-2003, 07:16 PM

hmmmmm that's going to take some thinking about - I forgot the DR said I had imbalanced brain chemicals!!! (you'd think I'd remember I've been told enough!)

Anyway (and I don't know where this is leading!) have you ever read 'You can heal your life' - Louise L Hay. ?? I only ever read really heavy books (probably why I'm depressed LOL) but she reckons she healed herself from cancer (I'd rather not comment on that one as my father didn't and died

) But the point is she thinks that every thought you have creates your future and you create your own disease (dis-eases) I am reading a FREE

On-line book at the moment by a DR that has the same kind of philosopy, I can't tell you how good or bad it is as I haven't finished it yet but just in case you're interested here's the link:
http://www.thoughtscreate.com/abccompete.html

The thing is I'm sure (sorry - I think) not all illness can be healed by mind or we wouldn't die would we? BUT there is definately some kind of a link that interests me - maybe because after 17 years I'm still in denial??? I've lost my train of thought now as well, if I ever had one! LOL.

The main point is (I think) that mind and body is closely related and it is comforting to think that is possible to heal our physical, mental and emotional pain just by thinking differently. Like I said I know the therory but the practise doesn't seem to be that easy for me and if it turns out to be all crap that will be really bad as I've spent so much time and energy on it I'll be right back to square one!!! But I see lots of ideas, religions, alternative medicines etc say the SAME things differently (does that make sense??) e.g. what goes around, comes around. What you give out you get back. As you sow so shall you reap. (I guess they weren't good examples? But I know what I mean - I think LOL)

OK totally lost the plot now! (sorry I do this often!) OMG - maybe I am just beyond help!

If you get time have a quick look at the book, it explains what I'm trying to say (and hoping to make work) a lot more simply than I seem to be doing!!!

Hugs to you all - I'm glad you haven't stoned me

(Yet!)

**heaven** · 01-17-2003, 07:37 PM

thanks i have a battle going in my head all the time nature vs. nurture, i don't know which way it goes, my mother keeps telling me it has to be from my birth *it was i guess a hard delivery.* so that is what she blames my depression and anxity on. so when she said that she really upset me. Why can't keiko be depressed and my thought is that if she is depressed why not get her help now instead of making her go through her life *like i did* depressed until something major happens.
and bev, we wouldn't stone you. LOL Not yet anyway.

Yes melissa it makes total sense to me.
thanks everyone and some days heather i would love not to talk to my mother again. *as if that is possible.*

**MJsLady** · 01-17-2003, 07:46 PM

Bev, WE won't stone people for different ideas!
Yes I do think I understand your point. I wonder about those things myself.
I will look over the book later this evening.
As i said I have strong faith, I also beleive things happen for a purpose.
Bad things can bring good.
I was reading about a a man accused of heresy (false teaching I beleive) and sent to London to be tried. His favorite saying was "all things are for the best" On the way he fell and broke his leg. Those with him scoffed, "was this for the best?" "I still beleive so" was his reply While waiting for the leg to heal Queen Mary died and the case was dropped.
So even though I may be sick now, something wonderful may come out of it later, after I have grown and learned from the illness.

**aylasmommy** · 01-17-2003, 08:18 PM

Bev that does make sense...for me though, the first few times that I was dealing with bipolar I didn't know what I was dealing with...No one knew what I had either it was all really scary...

Now that i've been through it, I can be more careful about the triggers that get me manic.....

Whenever I get out of the hospital, I have to force my brain to stop thinking whatever thing it is that it shouldn't be thinking (paranoid thoughts etc.)

I remember a saying someone gave me..."if you can wash dishes and have a conversation at the same time then you are not crazy" or something like that.. Since I so badly wanted to not think of myself as 'crazy' I would practice doing the dishes and having a conversation with whoever was around, as much as I could *giggle*

**heavensent_7** · 01-17-2003, 08:40 PM

I believe even bad things happen for a higher cause - I actually HAVE to believe this one or I would've parted this life before now!

The DR tried to tell me I was bi-polar (and maybe he's right???) I really hate labels, it makes hopeless. The more I've talked about depression the last couple of days the more I think I'm in denial still - because like I mentioned earlier if they 'labeled' me with the flu, I could cope with that. (that's food for thought!)

I do honestly sometimes think that I'm completely insane and I might never recover - only get worse and it scares the hell out of me. Also someone told me once that I was very creative and all famous creative people were mad

And I was stupid enough to buy into that thinking! Isn't it crazy how vunerable we are at times.

I just thought as well though - all that above stuff I just said is negative thinking (which I do alot - I know that) my philosopy always was if you imagine the worst way then it won't destroy you so much if it happens. But maybe the very thought is what's destroying me????

See if I could change my attitude and get well then there would be hope, but if I can't what's left???

There is the problem that I've been reading about this for years and nothing has changed!!! But then my thinking hasn't changed much either? Oh I don't really know - I think I'm so heavy I even confuse myself, which then would suggest that I might be mad and so it goes round and round and round LOL.

I'm a bit concerned that we sort of started a different thread right in the middle of heavens as well

I'm feeling bad about that.