We rented the movie 'Sicko' this weekend

**suki** · 04-21-2008, 07:56 PM

Do you expect private enterprise to address the crisis on their own without government intervention?

**northernmom2boys** · 04-21-2008, 08:02 PM

why does it always have to get nasty?calling people idiots

We have waiting lists in Canada but it also depends on what part of Canada you live in
I am proud of my country as well.
And we dont have freedom of choice here?????????? I beg to differ

**annymoll** · 04-21-2008, 08:53 PM

If you choose to buy your own medical insurance, and do not choose to participate in the NHS system are you exempt?Are you required to sign up or participate? Are your costs reduced because you are not using the NHS program and are buying your own?

**EarthGirl517** · 04-21-2008, 10:35 PM

I am not putting down Michael Moore or the documentary. I am not praising them either. I just don't believe universal healthcare is the best solution. Maybe better. Maybe not. I have a friend in England who had to wait so long for a gallbladder procedure, she almost died. It takes a long time to get things done with the universal healthcare system. She lived in the states for 20 years, and she says their system in the UK is not all it's cracked up to be. I am obviously not speaking from personal experience, but I did worry about my friend and what she went through. We definitely need a better system here though.

**acidcookie** · 04-21-2008, 11:16 PM

Originally Posted by leezza

I think the idiot who made this movie could put anything together.......

And if the US sucks so bad then why do people from all over the world come here to have procedures done?

I am sick of this guy being so anti-america....if he hates it so bad here, get the heck out of here and go somewhere else.

JMHO,
leezza

I don't think he's anti-America at all. If he was he WOULD just try to leave. But he's trying to bring awareness and change. Isn't that a better strategy than running away and leaving the problems for all?

I don't know the best answer, but it gets us thinking.

**warramra** · 04-21-2008, 11:30 PM

I sit on the fence often about the issue. Why? Because while I agree that our (US) system has major flaws, I just cannot believe that a governmental system that is so deep in the pockets of corporations and the medical insurance industry to actually deliver on a Universal Healthcare product that is actually good for the people.

How many Americans really trust our government to look after our best interests. We have a democracy, yet the same things seem to happen no matter who we vote into office. We stockpile food and supplies to see us through a crisis, why? Because we don't believe the government will be there in the aftermath. How many people in their '40s and younger truly believe that when they turn 72 (or whatever they will change the age to by the time we get there) will actually see a social security check in the mail? And, honestly, most people I know don't want to be dependent on the government for anything if they can help it. Remember why those patriots fought so hard for liberty, and why so many pioneers headed west? Anything that smacks of socialism and erosion of personal liberty is going to be a hard thing to swallow here. I just want to throw in my .2c worth so that those overseas can see we are not heartless, we just have a different view of government's responsibilities.

So, yes, I would like to see a system that is available to everyone (that already exists), that is also affordable. Health insurance companies should all be not-for-profit, and any income over and above a normal 'retainer' should be donated into a general insurance fund to pay for insurance for those who cannot afford it or get it because of pre-existing conditions. Limit how much health insurance companies get to charge and how much of a say they get in my medical care. Do you realize that some doctors offices and hospitals will shave 25%-30% off the bill just to not have to deal with insurance companies. Growing up dental work was a reasonable price, there was no dental insurance. Now it is absolutely scary how much dental work has increased in prices over the last 10 years with the introduction of dental insurance to the market.

Improve and increase the number of community medical clinics so that more people can access preventative care. These offer sliding scale fees and free immunizations, but also day long waits and can be a few hours drive.

Doctors and nurses should be trained in homeopathic treatments, so that instead of better living through chemistry, we can just have better living. Some things need drugs, but a lot don't.

And, finally, we (a universal we) have to stop using medical care for every scratch and sniffle. I am flabbergasted by the things I see parents take their kids in for, some of which is to cover their rears with the public school system (another rant for another day), but someone is still out $140 for the office visit when it is something that would resolve itself in 24-48 hours.

**HandyMom** · 04-21-2008, 11:33 PM

I watched a tv documentary recently and it was definitely an eye-opener about health care around the world. Michael Moore was not involved so I doubt anyone can find such fault with the report like they did with the MM movie. Watch it online if you can. I'm surprised no one watched it or commented on it here but then again I don't have cable/satellite tv and I don't rent movies much so I tend to see a lot more of PBS than most people.

__________________
Frontline correspondent T.R. Reid was online Wednesday, April 16 at 11 a.m. ET to discuss his film "Sick Around the World," which examines how five other capitalist democracies -- United Kingdom, Japan, Germany, Taiwan and Switzerland -- deliver health care, and what the United States might learn from their successes and failures.

"Sick Around the World" aired Tuesday, April 15 at 9 p.m. on PBS.
PBS website follows:
http://tinyurl.com/6hyfk5

**Dutchie** · 04-22-2008, 03:26 AM

Originally Posted by POOTERSMOMMY

All I can say is Michael Moore is an idiot. I wouldn't fall for anything he says. I too saw the movie. Yea if you believe everything he says, it would be nice. I hear too many people from Canada say they end up coming to America for care, because you have to wait so long for major operations and major care, and many have died waiting. Forgive me, but I'll pass. Yes there SHOULD be something better, but I don't want the government to have that control over me (it already has enough control). I love this country, and I will put up with it's quircks, until something better comes along. I love my freedom of choice too much.

Of course I cannot comment on the American side of the movie and how much of it is true but I can say that what he shows about the French system is also true of our system. The government has control over the insurance companies to make sure that the best care is given for a reasonable price. Also the insurance companies here cannot exclude you from their insurance so it always makes sense to get the best price for the best service - as I see it, this means that the people are in control, not the government.

We still have drs. who come to your home - even in the middle of the night and you don't get a bill for it. Yes this happens within about 15/20 MINUTES.
Yes, we do get extra free days to move house/get married - this is not dependent on who you work for, this is law.
Yes we do have unlimited paid sick days up to 1 year then you go into a kind of disability allowance.
Yes, we do have a minimum of 4 weeks paid vacation every year.
Yes we do have the choice if we would like someone to come and help us after a baby is born. This person looks after the house and any other kids already in the family. They do the laundry, cooking, grocery shopping and get paid by the health insurance. It is not an extra, it is standard in everyone's policy. You don't HAVE to take the help, but you can if you want. (On a personal note I have had this help 4 times and it is wonderful ).
We don't have long waiting times for any procedure because if a hospital nearby is full then your health insurance company negotiates with another hospital for you and makes sure that there is transport there.
Most all treatments are insured including alternative medicine.

In the US you hear all about the folks who come specially to the US for treatment because it is paid for by the insurance companies.
You cannot buy that kind of advertising.
Here the same thing happens but we don't hear about it so very often.
I do happen to hear about it because one of my best friends is a pediatric cardiologist and she is joint head of the pediatric transplantation team at our university hospitial in the city.
People also come here from all the world and get treatment at this and the other hospitals in Holland because they don't have the technology in their own countries.

If kids decide that they want to go to college then money is almost never an issue (without taking out school loans). Most ALL of our colleges (including med. school and law school) have a flat rate for college tuition (around $2000 per school year) which allows almost anyone to go AND if the tuition is a problem because of the low income of the parents, then help can be sought to help out. The parents only have to prove that they have a low income and they get help.

I agree that this is a socialist system, but it works and it works well in Holland.

As I see it, there is good and bad in every system but of one thing I am sure,
as long as there are people who have to make the decision between getting their meds or eating, then there is something wrong with the system in question.

**Dutchie** · 04-22-2008, 04:02 AM

Originally Posted by HandyMom

I watched a tv documentary recently and it was definitely an eye-opener about health care around the world. Michael Moore was not involved so I doubt anyone can find such fault with the report like they did with the MM movie. Watch it online if you can. I'm surprised no one watched it or commented on it here but then again I don't have cable/satellite tv and I don't rent movies much so I tend to see a lot more of PBS than most people.

__________________
Frontline correspondent T.R. Reid was online Wednesday, April 16 at 11 a.m. ET to discuss his film "Sick Around the World," which examines how five other capitalist democracies -- United Kingdom, Japan, Germany, Taiwan and Switzerland -- deliver health care, and what the United States might learn from their successes and failures.

"Sick Around the World" aired Tuesday, April 15 at 9 p.m. on PBS.
PBS website follows:
http://tinyurl.com/6hyfk5

I watched it.
Very worthwhile.
Thank you for posting about it.

**COUNTRYBUMPKIN** · 04-22-2008, 06:30 AM

HUGS to all.........Let there be Peace on earth!

**Sonnenwende** · 04-22-2008, 07:14 AM

Originally Posted by warramra

I sit on the fence often about the issue. Why? Because while I agree that our (US) system has major flaws, I just cannot believe that a governmental system that is so deep in the pockets of corporations and the medical insurance industry to actually deliver on a Universal Healthcare product that is actually good for the people.

Too bad all Americans can`t take a 2 or 3 week health care vacation to a country with universal health care like Germany. In Germany, I had the absolute best health care in my life because I actually had ACCESS to it. Something I was denied here time and again because I just couldn`t afford the deductibles or co-pays. As soon as my husband added me to his insurance I RAN to the dental school and spent the next FOUR months having dental work done every single week. I had fillings, fillings replaced, oral surgery.

When I came to Germany, the teeth were literally rotting out of my head for lack of medical attention. I just couldn`t afford the at least $900 a tooth price they were quoting me for wisdom tooth removal at the dental school. My `insurance` would barely cover a fourth of that. The wisdom tooth had grown in sideways, was near impossible to clean, caused me constant mouth infections. Eventually, one day it just cracked in half. At my ILs house. Two weeks before our wedding. How embarrassing is that? I became a charity case at the local dentist because he knows how OUR system works. He pulled it for free because he felt bad for me.

My child was born in Germany for nothing. I never saw a bill. When I threw my back out, all of my medicine was at reasonable cost to me. All medicine for my child was free. To be honest, my quality of life was higher there in most instances. Food was cheaper, I didn`t need a car, I didn`t worry about bankrupting myself with Illness 47. I often wonder why I came back here sometimes, but eh. I am stuck back in my homeland for at least another 2 years.

Until you have lived the system, it is easy to fear it. But I am no longer completely sceptical of it. It does have a lot of problems, but so does ours.

**annymoll** · 04-22-2008, 08:46 AM

That would be odd, the US voting in a Socialist system for our country.That would be a big change- fer sure.

**C@rol** · 04-22-2008, 09:37 AM

I have heard much about this movie also and haven't had
a chance to view it. Maybe we will see if we can pick it
up at the library and take a look.

**suki** · 04-22-2008, 11:51 AM

Annymoll... what alternatives do you suggest to address our health care crisis?

**annymoll** · 04-22-2008, 07:43 PM

Originally Posted by suki

Annymoll... what alternatives do you suggest to address our health care crisis?

I thought Telephus 44 had a neat idea. She suggested making the program much like auto insurance- making it available to everyone(not just through work). Companies could compete for business, and maybe rates could be adjustable .( I would enjoy getting a discount as I am in excellent health and seldom use the insurance we have.)I thought it was an interesting idea.