"the talk"---fairly explicit

[kita]

WARNING.....this is going to be TMI for some villagers.....


My niece is going to drive me nuts about this issue and neither one of us has any kids.
My 27-yr-old niece is very proud of the fact that several years ago she helped a friend (the mother) give "the talk" to her friend's daughter. ("Susie")
Susie was 10 at the time. They knew that she masturbated in the shower...I don't know how. They also knew that she didn't understand the mechanics of sex beforehand. I don't know exactly everything they covered but they explained the mechanics of sex by printing off porn pictures off the internet. They also explained orgasms (but my niece said that Susie had a better description than they provided). Also the use of condoms by having her place one on the mother's "Battery Operated Boyfriend" . Since BOB was used I am sure that "he" was explained as well.
I have tried to say carefully and kindly that some people might consider that level and method of "talk" for a 10-yr-old abusive. I have also in a light tone of voice said that if she ever shows porn or her or anyone's "BOB" to my child, she will never speak to that child again.
My niece does admit that each child is different but always concludes with this statement:
"But you can't realistically expect a child to stay a virgin until they get married. After all it is the 21ST CENTURY If you expect that then all that will happen is that they won't come to you before they do have sex."
This statement makes me irrated even more. Part of it is the "it's the 21th century" statement feels very condescending to me. I don't think she can conceive of what it was like to reach sexual maturity when all of the "problems" with free sex were easily solved. Condoms, the pill, and abortions were all easily available. All of the STDs were easily curable with antibiotics.
But what bothers me beyond that is the idea that a child MUST tell his parents before he has sex. Honestly, I think that having sex is an adult choice and if my child chooses to talk about it with me...great. But if he/she is adult enough to have sex they should be adult enough to choose who to talk to about it. As I raise a child it is my responsibilty to teach him or her the things they need to know so that they can make that choice appropriately.
I know that the problem between my neice and I stems from the fact I am a fairly conservative Christian and she thinks that I will raise my child in a repressive enviroment. I think she is also offended that I don't feel the need to discuss my sexual escapades with her.
So what do you think needs to be included in "the talk". Even that term bothers me because I think that most of that information should be given piecemeal as it comes up. I suppose "the talk" should be done to make sure that there aren't anygaping holes in the child's knowledge...I agree that a 10-year-old should understand the "Insert tab A into slot B" mechanics of sex. Not sure that pictures off the internet is how I would explain that....

[nodmicks]

WOW if someone gave the talk to my child that way I would have to restrain myself from beating them and I have never ever beaten a person. A 10 year old doesn't need to know all of that and not that way either. I have two teenage boys. We had the talk around 12-13. when they started to get interested in girls a bit. I guarantee I didnt show them how to apply a condom on a " BOB".

I didnt go into the bio mechanics of insert a into b. They didnt need an explanation of an orgasm. I'm still shocked by all they told that 1o year old!!!! Our talks were More of along the lines of " the risks, the adult consequences, feelings, how it changes relationships. My boys know full well I would prefer they be over 18 and preferably married. My adult son did tell me before and though I didnt like it I did keep his drawer full of condoms.

[Mojjo]

In NJ and PA showing a 10 year old porn could be prosecuted as a felony..."educational" or not.

And I completely agree with you.

[nodmicks]

WOW if someone gave the talk to my child that way I would have to restrain myself from beating them and I have never ever beaten a person. A 10 year old doesn't need to know all of that and not that way either. I have two teenage boys. We had the talk around 12-13. when they started to get interested in girls a bit. I guarantee I didnt show them how to apply a condom on a " BOB".

I didnt go into the bio mechanics of insert a into b. They didnt need an explanation of an orgasm. I'm still shocked by all they told that 1o year old!!!! Our talks were More of along the lines of " the risks, the adult consequences, feelings, how it changes relationships. My boys know full well I would prefer they be over 18 and preferably married. My adult son did tell me before and though I didnt like it I did keep his drawer full of condoms.

I didnt word that correctly. My son was not an adult when he told me he was going to have sex but almost 17.

[dancemommy]

Definitely TMI for a 10 year old, TMI for a teen and TMI in general!

[Daisygirl]

I don't think I ever really had "the talk" with my girls. I just added information along the way to things that they already knew, if that makes sense. If you ask them, they will tell you they just "always" knew, because I tried never to make a big deal of having "the talk."

I had my little DD when big DD was 5. It led to lots of questions, but finally she was satisfied with "Sometimes when mommies and daddies love each other very much that get very very close and a baby happens."

Over the years, she asked more questions, usually just one little bit at a time. I always added to earlier conversations when filling in details. I felt like if she was old enough to ask the question she was old enough to get an honest answer. I tried to keep things at her current level and when she stopped asking questions I stopped talking.

Little DD was more difficult because she always found anything "romantic" to be horribly embarrassing. She has the basic idea, under duress, because I didn't want her to make a naive faux pax at school, but since she hasn't asked, I haven't given more details.

I think that kids will ask what they need to know, when they are ready to know it. It sounds like your niece volunteered WAY too much information for this girl. At the risk of sounding like a psychologist, images shown to a child at an early age can shape the sexual patterns when she becomes an adult. That's why those inappropriate things need to be kept away from children.

My girls have also "always" known about women's cycles in much the same way they have "always" known about sex and babies. I think knowledge is an excellent thing,and I don't believe that this will lead them to experiment any earlier than friends who were taught differently. If anything, I hope that the honesty we've always had between us will cause them to have less curiousity and focus on other things instead. (Fingers crossed!)

[zakity]

We did the "little bits of info over time" educational system. As they asked, they got the info. We had the policy that we set them all down and told all three when someone asked because my guys are so close in age. And, usually, it was one of the twins asking. We told them as much information as we felt like they could handle. And, we tried to be as truthful as possible.

[heartofmine]

I did the "little bit at a time" until my daughter asked me more serious questions and we had a set down talk about it. I would never never ever ever show a child porn nor would I go into the detail they did. That was wayyyy over the top to much info for a 10 year old.

[forHISglory]

Because I grew up on a farm, I always saw the cycles of life in many ways. It always seemed natural that babies of every kind were made and born and died. I tried to make this cycle of life natural and miraculous for our family, too. Besides the biology of the whole thing, we also talked about values and morality and responsibility and consequences. We stressed abstinence. We discussed what could happen financially, physically, emotionally. We discussed how to NOT get into intimate situations in the first place. My motto was, "I'll always love you, no matter what" and "I'll always tell you the truth".

It has always bothered me when people say that kids will have sex, that they just can't help it, that it's unrealistic to have them wait. Fiddlesticks! Of course they can wait, of course they can help it, of course they don't have to have sex. It's like saying that this current young generation just doesn't have the gutsiness and moral capability that our past generations had. Hogwash! Every generation is capable of making the right choices, and understanding right from wrong. End of rant.....

I believe that our children will not live up to our expectations unless we take time to discuss them OFTEN. It should not be a one time talk. I also believe that I need to live out my expections in my own life. My children need to see that I walk the talk.

With all that said, I know that things happen. But to say that I expect my child to have sex before marriage is to give permission and blessing. I can't do that.

[Nishu]

Holy cow. Wow. Oh man. That whole situation gave me the creeps. I'd tell you which part of it, but Im not sure there's anythin about it that isnt disturbing.

I bought my kid a book about development and we discuss menstration on occasion so that they don't get embarrassed or freaked out. I don't feel it's necessary for a kid that age to know anything more. We have made references to grown up activities bt that's about it. Ten is too young.

[Lady_V]

Beat - her - with - a - stick!

We have been open and honest here too, giving the info as needed and age appropriate. She knows "how" babies are conceived, but I sure as heck didn't pull out charts and graphs! She has the concept of how they get in there, how they get out, and not delivered by a stork.

When Diva went through her "what's down there" stage (she was about 4)... we didn't give it a name, we didn't tell her how to go about it, we just said "that is not something you do in public". We also didn't tell her it was "wrong" because we never want her to be ashamed of her body...

Will I sit her down again when she starts dating? YES. Will I offer more and more information when she comes to me? YES.

It's the age of the internet but you can't believe everything you read. What the internet may have for information, it lacks the human element. I tried to make it CRYSTAL CLEAR that she can come to me about ANYTHING without my judgement.

I grew up being told NOTHING. My mom's best friend gave me a Dr. Ruth book for teens... Everything else I learned from first hand experience. Looking back, I would have waited if I knew what "it" was all about.

But, back to the original post... 10 is not too young to talk about things, (I admit, I was WAY too young) but whipping out the playtoys, porn, details -- OVERBOARD ... and pretty sure illegal!

[Dutchie]

We have done things here almost the same way as Daisygirl.

I don't remember exactly how old he was but our eldest son was in his early teens when we were watching the original Beverly Hills 90210 series and one of the girls was 'late'. That gave us a chance to tell him some stuff and added on when he wanted to know more. We have always been very open with our kids about the 'birds and the bees'.

We have had various rules in our house and they never changed over the years.

Our boys lived here till they were in their 20's (our daughter still lives here - she will be 21 this year).
When the boys were younger (around 18) and they had a serious relationship and the girl wanted to stay over, we had always had the rule that then the girl's parents had to be ok with it.

Of course the kids would all say that the parents were fine with their daughter staying over at our house but ALWAYS I had to speak to the parents themselves and ask.
It did sometimes happen that the parents were not ok with their daughter staying over and she didn't. Period - no discussion.
Those were the rules and everyone stuck to them.

[ladykemma2]

showing a child porn is a reason to call CPS. it's a very subtle form of incest/sexual abuse.

[nuisance26]

~I agree with you and the others, that was not an appropriate way to tell a child about it. Showing porn to a child for any reason is just wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong!
I also don't agree with the attitude of acceptance that all kids will have sex before marriage. I'm with FHG. I expect my kids to wait until they are out of my house and functioning as an adult on their own. Intimacy always has the possibility of pregnancy. Until they are ready in every other way to be an adult(working, paying all their own bills)then they are not really ready for parenthood.
I'm hoping they choose to wait based on their relationship with God and what the Bible says.
I also grew up in a strict Christian environment but it wasn't oppressive. I was comfortable asking questions. I was permitted to learn about the topic on my own. My parents were aware that I was less likely to have sex before marriage when I knew more about it.
I have relatives who grew up with no knowledge about it at all. It was not talked about in their home at all. Only one of their seven children waited until marriage. One of them had a baby she "didn't know" she was pregnant with.
No child needs porn to understand more about it. And unless a parent really wants a 10 year old to start being intimate with her friends, she also doesn't need more info on the mechanics of it.
Appropriate info would be more about relationships, recognizing sexual predators and abusive persons, sexual health, self-esteem, pregnancy and childbirth(yes, I think this a MUST when having "The Talk")and and the difference between love and like.
I think a lot of parents make the mistake of thinking that kids want to know about sex when what they really want to know about is love. And unfortunately, arming a child with graphic mechanical knowledge before they have the emotional maturity to understand how and when to use it is scary.
I'm worried for that girl. ~

[frugalfoster]

Holy cow. Wow. Oh man. That whole situation gave me the creeps. I'd tell you which part of it, but Im not sure there's anythin about it that isnt disturbing.

I agree...I was shocked!