A glimmer of hope for SHTF
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  1. #1
    Registered User Mr Fixit's Avatar
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    Default A glimmer of hope for SHTF

    Okay we have discussed many of the gory details of how most people will become savages, and try to take all of our valuables and food. And we have been prepping like there is no tomorrow which is the only smart thing to do.
    But I am hoping we still may have a glimmer of hope, that all of the good honest people such as ourselves, who are prepared, and have weapons an ammo, will have the sense to organize ourselves against the bad people that will rise from this situation, and hold them at bay.
    I have always wanted to beleive that good wins against evil, and for the most part, it always has. So if we, the good people organize ourselves so that we have our own units of warriors, that always do what is right, but fight to defeat the people that feed off of others, we might have a chance.
    I am not talking about militant malitia over the top survivalists that have bunkers and grenade launchers, but people like us that simply want to protect their families and what is ours.
    Lets only hope we can organize and ban together when this time comes, because I truly beleive we can survive and thrive by just sticking together.
    We must never lose sight of what good people can accomplish, because if we do, that is when the real SHTF will happen!

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    I don't trust people. IMO, they're not to be trusted. I can not honestly seeing myself willingly going into a MAG or Group. Those things are based on using people and hierarchy. The "leaders" and their families will be top dogs, and if you don't comply with their wishes, then you're out, on your own anyways, so whats the point?

    It's like I've said on another forum, I'd rather have a friend with no skills have my back, than strangers who I've paid into a group. I just can't trust them. I don't know them.Heck, they may not even like me but since I may have a skill they can maybe use, they'll go ahead and look out for me. It would be too easy for them to just say the heck with it and not bother.
    I know a friend would do all they could.

    I don't know.I may be able to go with a small town environment, but not a compound environment. If it was for the town I live in, then yea, I'd be willing. As long as I was allowed autonomy to do what I want with my acreage and such.

    I don't know. Theres too many variables and what if's in that.

  3. #3
    Registered User Mr Fixit's Avatar
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    Well I am just talking about a community where the husbands and wives ban together and form their own group to protect the community, just to keep the looters and gangs from invading them, not like a commune where everybody shares everything. Good people only need protection.
    but a group of armed men, is way more effective that scattered households with guns. The organization and numbers scare the heck out of gangs and crminals in general.
    I realize nothing is easy, but I could only hope that some people will have enough honor and humanity to ban together and wipe out the bad guys, dont you?
    I would join a group like that in a minute as long as I knew the rest of the people in it, and knew that getting rid of criminals was our goal.
    People will eventualy have to barter, so we are going to have to figure out how to get along at least for that, so you will end up sooner or later having to trust someone outside of your family. Nobody will have endless supplies!

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    Registered User sabrelvssammy's Avatar
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    In the studies & research that I have been doing there are good & bad to every side.

    While it would be nice to be able to just be surrounded by you and your immediate loved ones on some acreage with livestock, flourishing gardens & clear running streams away from the madness, that is not going to be a reality. Escaping from the city is one of the first things that others will be trying to do. Where do you think they are going to end up>? Crossing over your own back yards that's where. At that point you have a choice to invite them in to be part of something larger or stand with your guns and tell them to keep moving. That is a decision that everyone is going to have to make and live with themselves.

    In the research I have found that leaving the city to escape to a rural environment can be one of the most deadly things a family could do. You suddenly have a much larger 'environment' to protect. Your perimeters have grown substantially. You can have all the firepower in the world to protect it but if you do not have the man-power you are going to be pretty much screwed. When people get hungry they lose their fears, their sense of pain and they are willing to take any risks just to feed their starving families. If SHTF bigtime, chances are you will bunkered down withing the walls of where ever you have landed. You won't be out keeping up a garden or feeding & milking your cows. It will become just entirely too dangerous to be out and in the open.

    With this scenario in mind it is suggested that sometimes staying put in your own home would give you the greatest advantage over being robbed, raped, beaten or possibly killed.

    A community or compound does not necessarily mean everyone lives in the same 3 bedroom house and there are mattress scattering every inch of the floor space. It is suggested perhaps if you live in a neighborhood, for families in that neighborhood to take residence in 2,3 even 4 homes and fight to protect just those homes and the inhabitants within them. You will not be able to save the homes of everyone on the entire street. Nor should you try. Your perimeter would include the safe passage between those homes giving access to stockpiles, the skills of the inhabitants & the fact that you have safety in numbers to protect everyone living within the perimeters.

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    Registered User Incognito's Avatar
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    Default control and freedom

    In a worst-case scenario, the government will take much more authority over the populace, dictating and directing their lives, and use the military and police to monitor and control the people. Virtually every aspect of their lives will be regulated, in order to comply with the dictates of those who assume command. That will include rationing of all goods and services, and investigation and confiscation of the assets of citizens.
    Freedom as we know it will no longer exist; underground activities by survivalists will be outlawed and suppressed, even punished.
    The authorities will decide who lives and dies, based on their own ideology.
    It is to be hoped that the world will still have the resources to sustain itself, if they are spread around fairly and efficiently; but that would involve the collective co-operation of all the different governments, and compassionate interest and timely response to human need.

    My parents and relatives made it through The Great Depression just fine; they didn't require guns to defend themselves, nobody got killed, nobody stole. But the country was young, people could still homestead, and buy a house cheap, there were jobs in the service sector, and in mining, forestry. Nowadays, people cannot access these kinds of resources should there be another depression. Everything is tightly controlled by government. Limits on buying land and housing, limits on how many fish you can have in the freezer, limits on what kind of animals you can raise for food near town, many more rules and regulations governing our lives.

    Make your home as self-sustaining as you can, and work with anything else that is in your power and control to do so; because everything else is under the authority of the governing bodies, and they'll take more and more away in any crisis scenario. A walled-in backyard with a protected and locked greenhouse to raise as much food as possible. Don't waste anything, resource it. And you don't have to eat cold food if you've got tree branches in the back yard, and a few bricks to make a rocket stove; harvesting a few dry twigs will suffice for cooking, and hot covered bricks make for warm feet later. Learn how to use every possible kind of animal for food.
    Soup goes a long way.

    My parents raised 10 kids, and we lived mostly on potatoes, sauerkraut, beet jelly, some garden vegetables, a couple of hogs per year that we raised on the outskirts of town, Dad hunted a deer or 2 per year, lots of fish, berries, mushrooms, and we bought the essentials: flour for baking everything, oatmeal, cornmeal, margarine, eggs, milk. Clothing and footwear were minimal. We were considered the 2nd poorest family in town, but we weren't on welfare, and we didn't have a civil war in the time of our country's depression, and no looting, violence or theft in the town where we lived. Between Dad's hunting, trapping, fishing, and manual labour skills, and Mom's child-rearing, homemaking and gardening skills, we made it through the tough times, and things got better.

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    Registered User Mr Fixit's Avatar
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    Incognito I really hope you are right, but the only thing that worries me is that people this day and age are not as tough and resourceful and the old timers, nor do they have the compassion for other people. Sure some still do, but a lot of them dont!
    A big percentage of modern day people like street gangs, and criminals in general are already taking what they want. Home invasions are already more prevelant than ever before.
    So we are almost a different breed of people then we were in the depression.
    But like I said, maybe if the good people stick together, we can overcome the bad ones, and I'm not going to count on the government much because by the time they get there it will probably be too late!

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    Registered User Incognito's Avatar
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    I certainly agree with you, Mr. Fixit; our younger generation knows very little about manual labour survival skills, and most don't care; they somehow are completely centred around electronic gadgets, and fast track everything in their lives. Nothing will be the same as the years gone by, when generations were taught to stick together and respect each other, and make the best of their situation using their resources.

    Is it a crazy idea to think that it might be possible to survive in a small boat or canoe, maybe with a cover, sail & sleeping arrangements, just travelling the rivers carrying basic supplies, and fishing as needed.
    It's almost impossible to aquire land nowadays, and there are so many rules and regulations about trespass if a person wants to do wildcrafting, but as far as I know the rivers are still free places, and as long as a person can build a temporary shelter on shore, there shouldn't be a problem with the authorities. There are lots of online info sites that show how to build temp shelters in the wild, and how to manage campfires and foraging too. Just an idea; what do you think?

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    Master Dollar Stretcher madhen's Avatar
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    I am finding this thread very interesting, because I have a hard time picturing a situation in modern times in which it would be necessary to hunker down and go into an "every individual for him/herself" mode. (I assume, btw, you are talking about a situation/incident that lasts for a long time [i.e, a year or more]; otherwise, most city dwellers would likely remain where they are, because that is where the resources are.)

    The world has gone through some horrible things, including the earthquakes in Japan and Haiti, and their societies did not break down into "kill or be killed." Japan even survived a consequent tsunami AND a nuclear meltdown, and we aren't hearing news reports of the have-not's killing off the have's.

    The bubonic plague, Black Death, and AIDS didn't tear down the fabric of society, so I can't think of a situation where a natural disease would/could completely unsettle the underpinnings of a civilization.

    And I'm pretty sure you aren't talking about the zombie-pocalypse.

    I can't think of a situation, IOW, where anyone would be FORCED into full-time survival mode, and where there would not still be pockets of society that would be attempting to rebuild and take care of those who did not choose to be in that mode. (Reminds me a bit of the old BBC series, Night of the Triffids.) And if something happened that took out enough of the population to create such an environment, where there was absolutely no social order remaining, I can't imagine there would be enough people left in the world to make it very likely that we would stumble upon each other's stash in the day-to-day effort to just scrounge enough up locally to keep from starving. Initially, those who were not totally prepared would stick close to their resources (i.e, urban areas) and those who WERE prepared would stick close to home. Later, the ones who were not prepared would either stock up and become self-sufficient, or would die from starvation or disease.

    I do a lot of survival prep, but more along the lines of surviving for several weeks in case of a natural disaster and also being self-sustainable just for the pride of being able to say that can take care of myself without having to rely on others. I admire people who can stockpile enough food/supplies to sustain themselves indefinitely, but I could just never really convince myself that it was necessary, except on a "right to brag" front.
    DH aka Mad Hen
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    Registered User sabrelvssammy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Incognito View Post

    Is it a crazy idea to think that it might be possible to survive in a small boat or canoe, maybe with a cover, sail & sleeping arrangements, just travelling the rivers carrying basic supplies, and fishing as needed.
    It's almost impossible to aquire land nowadays, and there are so many rules and regulations about trespass if a person wants to do wildcrafting, but as far as I know the rivers are still free places, and as long as a person can build a temporary shelter on shore, there shouldn't be a problem with the authorities. There are lots of online info sites that show how to build temp shelters in the wild, and how to manage campfires and foraging too. Just an idea; what do you think?
    I would think you would be a sitting duck out there in the open for people to take 'pop shots' at. You are still carrying supplies, you have a boat, you will still have more than others have and they will want it. Going into hiding to protect what you have and your family, in my opinion will give the best chance of survival. Laying low....

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    Super Moderator Spirit Deer's Avatar
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    Makes sense to me, Madhen.

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    Default my husband comes from a family with 7 kids....

    and their mom is still alive....so if the shtf scenario our family which includes my hubby, three children and one sons girlfriend and myself would all congregate into one place with hubby's 3-4 siblings that want to do the same thing...He has a couple that believe nothing is going to happen and believe the rest of us our strange.....haha....just not sure where we would congregate is all meaning which property we would all go to...

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    Registered User Incognito's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sabrelvssammy View Post
    I would think you would be a sitting duck out there in the open for people to take 'pop shots' at. You are still carrying supplies, you have a boat, you will still have more than others have and they will want it. Going into hiding to protect what you have and your family, in my opinion will give the best chance of survival. Laying low....
    The rivers here are quite isolated, rarely any people around, except for the areas where there are campgrounds and towns. The land is owned by the Crown, the Aboriginal Peoples, and others, but the rivers run through, and there are rivers and lakes in great abundance. Nobody thinks anything of seeing someone out in a boat or canoe, fishing or boating (carrying along a tent & hand-cart) in spring, summer and fall, as long as you've got your fishing license, your flotation device, in case a warden or conservation officer checks. In the winter, ice-fishing with a shack or garden shed. Home, sweet home. Good to go till ice break-up, then start travelling again, always near water and food, and could hole up on shore, and hand-cart supplies from the nearest town, if necessary.
    Only a worst-case scenario, but plausible. Can't carry firearms, would land in jail that way when the warden checks; lots of rules about shooting wildlife, not to mention other people.

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    Registered User Mr Fixit's Avatar
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    Madhen, again, I hope you are right, and the people of the USA keeps thier humanity and ban together. I would love to think that we still have that ability, and that is the Glimmer of hope that I have. I would like to think that we have more good people than bad!
    But on the other hand, I will never stop prepping because I could be totally wrong about everything. The reason I prep is because so many Americans more than people of other county's, think they are so entitled, and that is what truly scares me! And people have lost the art of survival which makes them pretty much helpless in most survival situations.
    So if there ever is a total economic collapse, the only chance we have is to ban together, and let the hoodlums know that we stand together, and are ready to fight. And if they come after us, make them pay for it and get rid of a few of them.
    The Japanese people are so honorable I could never see them going into a kill or be killed situation except under the most dire end of the world circumstances.
    And I can't see the people of Austrailia going outlaw either because they stilll know how to survive.
    It is the people here that worry me more because we are such a spoiled society, and what does a spoiled child do when he cant get what he wants, he throws a fit. Only problem is these will be spoiled adults that will probably be carrying weapons of some kind.
    So yes, I hope total collapse never happens, and yes, there will be many decent people that will ban together if it does.
    I only hope they outnumber the entitled outlaw types that will pray upon us!

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    Registered User Michelle68's Avatar
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    Since there are no more "like" buttons, I am actually forced to type, "I agree, Madhen." (Oh, and Spirit Deer,too.)

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    Master Dollar Stretcher madhen's Avatar
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    I have no problem with prepping, and I wasn't asking to be facetious. As I said, I have a lot of respect for people who are organized enough to keep a year's worth of food inventory rotated and fresh. I can't even keep track of the food in my fridge! I am just wondering if most preppers have a specific scenario they are imagining that would result in a lot of disenfranchised people roaming around trying to kill for food/resources, or if you are prepping with no real concept of what might cause the collapse you fear. The first lesson of being prepared for any disaster is to imagine it and to walk yourself through it mentally, so I am wondering what scenario you all are imagining/preparing for. I can see you are prepared to hunker down and defend your territory, but to me, without having an understanding of the specific circumstances that will lead to that event, I would feel only half-prepared.

    Another economic collapse, while possible, has already been experienced by both this country and other countries (and is being experienced in both to some extent, in current times), and as far as I know, there is no Thunderdome in existence because of it, so there must be some other "x" factor you are considering that I am missing?
    DH aka Mad Hen
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    Every time you spend money, you're casting a vote for the kind of world you want. Anna Lappe

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